Rogue's list

[Grady]

My personal list has a four way tie for first. Some considerees are still alive and I'd be risking my life if I mentioned them. After they pass I'll gladly share.
I don't have time right now to answer lots of questions. This is just a sampling of what's to come.
In no special order they are: Steve "The Whale"
Detroit Whitey
Dallas Joey
Pancho

 

[Fast Lenny]

My personal list has a four way tie for first. Some considerees are still alive and I'd be risking my life if I mentioned them. After they pass I'll gladly share.
I don't have time right now to answer lots of questions. This is just a sampling of what's to come.
In no special order they are: Steve "The Whale"
Detroit Whitey
Dallas Joey
Pancho

Good stuff Grady, what is the list going to consist of?, good shortstops or guys like Jersey Red who have not been recognized by the BCA?

 

[JAM]

My personal list has a four way tie for first. Some considerees are still alive and I'd be risking my life if I mentioned them. After they pass I'll gladly share.
I don't have time right now to answer lots of questions. This is just a sampling of what's to come.
In no special order they are: Steve "The Whale"
Detroit Whitey
Dallas Joey
Pancho

Grady, I think I asked you this before, but I gotta ask it again.

Is it true that Detroit Whitey put his baby up as a stake in a pool game? I'm hoping I heard the story wrong.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Bucktooth for sure

 

[freddy the beard]

Come ahead

My personal list has a four way tie for first. Some considerees are still alive and I'd be risking my life if I mentioned them. After they pass I'll gladly share.
I don't have time right now to answer lots of questions. This is just a sampling of what's to come.
In no special order they are: Steve "The Whale"
Detroit Whitey
Dallas Joey
Pancho

I'll stay out of it for awhile, and give you first crack at presenting your favorites. It's safe to say you have a formidable First Four, although IMO I kinda think that Whitey is the Seven ball over everybody else.

Beard

 

[maha]

whitey story.--- one time, actually many times when he would be bar playing. and he played well in bars. but he would drink until he couldnt win anymore against someone that could play. after he got broke he would put his little dog on the table and say he would blow it for ten bucks. yes thats true.

 

[maha]

another whitey story-- he loved black olives. when the few times he got to go out with someone he would order a giant bowl of them and eat them all.
of course after the tip was left on the table he would go back and pick it up.

 

[maha]

ill add cadillac joe veasey from philly to the list and cuban joey valdez

 

[punter]

Bump for Grady... sounded like an interesting thread.

 

[jay helfert]

Most larcenous - Pancho (who knows what his real name was???)
Most disgusting (by far!) - Detroit Whitey
Sickest (and craziest) gambler - David Sizemore
Most dangerous - Low Down Dirty Red (aka Preacher Red)
Most dangerous #2 - Cuban Joe
Most insane - Waterdog!!! (a real weirdo!)
Grossest (and yet hilarious) - Omaha Fats

And now for some good ones,
Funniest - Peter Rabbitt
Crazy like a fox - Cornbread
Smartest gambler - Billy Incardona
Smartest gamblers #2 & #3 (Fats and Ronnie)
Best talker (while playing) - Jersey Red
Best fighter (anywhere at anytime)- Danny Diliberto
Nerves of steel - Keith
Nerves of steel #2 - Louie
Sneakiest - Jack Cooney
Unbeatable - Buddy Hall
Most respected - Hubert Cokes
Most unforgettable - Cole
Best voice - Johnny Ervolino

 

[M HOUSE]

Pancho

Pancho's real name- Vince Corellee (not sure of the spelling of the last name, but that's how it was pronounced)

Jay, you nailed it with the category for Pancho. One of the last "jobs" he had was running a Boiler Room right next door to my pool room in south Florida. His "team" was very successful at selling tickets to a Policeman's Ball that didn't exist.

 

[mdavis228]

This thread could be a lot of fun - look forward to more great stories.

Nice avatar, JAM...

 

[freddy the beard]

Vince Pancho Carelli

Pancho's real name- Vince Corellee (not sure of the spelling of the last name, but that's how it was pronounced)

Jay, you nailed it with the category for Pancho. One of the last "jobs" he had was running a Boiler Room right next door to my pool room in south Florida. His "team" was very successful at selling tickets to a Policeman's Ball that didn't exist.

Actually, Pancho's real,real name was Harvey Strauss. His various aliases incuded, Vince Furio, Vince Corelli, Vince Carelli, and a couple others. He was so good at the aliases that he did a year in a Florida jail as Vince Carelli!
He was from Brooklyn originally. When he was dying from diabetes he came to Chicago to live with me. He died of a heart attack just before a stress test procedure. I knew him for 40 years, and yes he bagged me up many times. We co owened a boiler room in Chicago. After about 20yrs. I found out his first name was really Harvey, and he was Jewish not Italian. The last name eluded me until I finally received confirmation from George Fels and Brooklyn Butch that it was Strauss.
His real name was one of the great secrets in sports. His wife Sandy, and his 3 kids didnt even know the real deal.

Beard

My top ten in The Rogues Gallery as I published in my book the GosPool on page 102 were as follows (in no particular order except for #1, that position was uncontested:
#1 Detroit Whitey
#2 Ray Maples from Atlanta Ga
#3 Brooklyn Johnny Irvolino
#4 Vince Pancho Carelli, real name Harvey Strauss
#5 The combined crew from Hazard and Corbin Ky. OneEyedTony, Sid Heard, Berle Gabbard, etc.
#6 CornBread Red
#7 Ronnie Allen
#8 Billy Incardona
#9 Bugs Rucker
#10 Weanie Beanie


My reasons and the full stories behind the ratings can be found in the book. Buy it or borrow it from someone.

 

[M HOUSE]

Thanks

Actually, Pancho's real,real name was Harvey Strauss. His various aliases incuded, Vince Furio, Vince Corelli, Vince Carelli, and a couple others. He was so good at the aliases that he did a year in a Florida jail as Vince Carelli!
He was from Brooklyn originally. When he was dying from diabetes he came to Chicago to live with me. He died of a heart attack just before a stress test procedure. I knew him for 40 years, and yes he bagged me up many times. We co owened a boiler room in Chicago. After about 20yrs. I found out his first name was really Harvey, and he was Jewish not Italian. The last name eluded me until I finally received confirmation from George Fels and Brooklyn Butch that it was Strauss.
His real name was one of the great secrets in sports. His wife Sandy, and his 3 kids didnt even know the real deal.

Beard

Thanks for clearing that up. That explains why all the people working for him in the Boiler room were Jewish. I can understand how he was able to get to you "many times", he was a very likeable person. And as you would obviously know, he was very, very good at his profession.

 

[FranCrimi]

Big Steve (the whale) ----not to be confused with Big Steve in Florida who is a terriffic guy:

This guy, now dead, was one of the most vile, disgusting, poor excuses for a human being that ever lived. We had the honor of his presence at the Golden Q in Queens, NY for about 5 years. Thanks to him it was the worst 5 years of my pool playing life.

When he walked into the room, everyone would grab their belongings and hang on to them until he left. He'd steal your cue right out from under you if you weren't looking. One of his favorite past times was slashing your tires while you were inside playing pool. He thought it was funny.

He had no conscience ---- no sense of right and wrong. He was a sociopath and dangerous to be around. He eventually got himself banned from practically every pool room in the northeast. He eventually got arrested and convicted ( I didn't know what for and didn't care) and either died in jail or just after. One rumor was he died of AIDS, the other was he killed himself.

 

[Pushout]

Big Steve (the whale) ----not to be confused with Big Steve in Florida who is a terriffic guy:

This guy, now dead, was one of the most vile, disgusting, poor excuses for a human being that ever lived. We had the honor of his presence at the Golden Q in Queens, NY for about 5 years. Thanks to him it was the worst 5 years of my pool playing life.

When he walked into the room, everyone would grab their belongings and hang on to them until he left. He'd steal your cue right out from under you if you weren't looking. One of his favorite past times was slashing your tires while you were inside playing pool. He thought it was funny.

He had no conscience ---- no sense of right and wrong. He was a sociopath and dangerous to be around. He eventually got himself banned from practically every pool room in the northeast. He eventually got arrested and convicted ( I didn't know what for and didn't care) and either died in jail or just after. One rumor was he died of AIDS, the other was he killed himself.

Isn't Big Steve {the whale} the guy who stole Keith's cue out of his room at the BC Open? Seems to me that it was.

 

[JAM]

Isn't Big Steve {the whale} the guy who stole Keith's cue out of his room at the BC Open? Seems to me that it was.

Well, now I know I don't like him! :angry:

In the early '80s, I guess it was, a road player and I traveled up to the Big Apple looking for a little action. Man, it was really creepy for us driving at night on freeways, thoroughways, highways, not knowing where you're going. Those New York drivers go by you fast and don't give you a chance to think twice about taking an exit. It was actually scary. :frown:

We went to a couple joints, but they were dead as a doornail. We ended up at the old Q-Masters in Queens. The place was packed. Every table was booked, and there was a waiting list. This room was HUGE. I remember Jean Balukas was practicing on one of the tables in the middle, which made me rubber-neck a few times.

They had two action tables all the way in the back, which was a much darker area than the rest of the room, as I recall. This Steve the Whale guy was playing back there, and my partner went up to eyeball him to see if he could get a game.

I went up to get a something to drink, and I heard the patrons say, "I want a regular," meaning coffee with cream and sugar. I asked if my car was okay parked across the street, and the clerk said that cars get stripped in less than a minute flat over there. I had a brand-new Chrysler 5th Avenue (seven-ball red) and was ready to leave immediately. Then the clerk said I could pay the guy next door at the gas station a sawbuck or two and he'd watch my car for me in the gas station lot. So I ran across the street, moved my car to the gas station lot, and paid the gas station attendant two sawbucks. It was amazing how many cars were parked in this gas station lot. He probably made more money from the parking fees than he did on gas.

We ended up not getting any action with Steve the Whale. I guess it's just as well that we didn't!

 

[jay helfert]

Isn't Big Steve {the whale} the guy who stole Keith's cue out of his room at the BC Open? Seems to me that it was.

That's the guy. It was my cue that Keith borrowed to play in the tourney with (I also staked Keith). He won the tournament and first place of $25,000. Gary Pinkowski was the promoter and he gave Keith $12,500 on the spot and I had to wait a month to get my 12.5K.

While Keith was down in the bar celebrating his victory, the Whale went to the front desk and convinced them that he was "Keith McCready" and he was locked out of his room.

The most amazing thing is that I got my cue back, thanks to the aforementioned Brooklyn Butch. He merely had to call and threaten the Whale with annihilation if he didn't ship the cue to him in California. The cue arrived via UPS three days later!

 

[JAM]

That's the guy. It was my cue that Keith borrowed to play in the tourney with (I also staked Keith). He won the tournament and first place of $25,000. Gary Pinkowski was the promoter and he gave Keith $12,500 on the spot and I had to wait a month to get my 12.5K.

While Keith was down in the bar celebrating his victory, the Whale went to the front desk and convinced them that he was "Keith McCready" and he was locked out of his room.

The most amazing thing is that I got my cue back, thanks to the aforementioned Brooklyn Butch. He merely had to call and threaten the Whale with annihilation if he didn't ship the cue to him in California. The cue arrived via UPS three days later!

You mean people had to wait to get paid back then, too? Yikes!

Somebody kindly sent me this picture, so at least there is a happy memory for Keith to cherish! :smiling-heart:

Gary Pinkowski, Keith, and Mary Lea Jordan at the 1985 BC Open held in Binghamton, NY!

It was October 1985, undefeated at the then-annual B.C. Open in Binghamton, New York, Keith pocketed $25,000, which was considered a large purse for a pool tournament at that date. The venue featured capacity audiences each day. "A worthy champion and a colorful, exciting player, he deserved to win," writes pool veteran Grady Mathews.

Source: "McCready Has Hot Stick at B.C.," The National Billiard News, October 1985, p.12

 

[Pushout]

That's the guy. It was my cue that Keith borrowed to play in the tourney with (I also staked Keith). He won the tournament and first place of $25,000. Gary Pinkowski was the promoter and he gave Keith $12,500 on the spot and I had to wait a month to get my 12.5K.

While Keith was down in the bar celebrating his victory, the Whale went to the front desk and convinced them that he was "Keith McCready" and he was locked out of his room.

The most amazing thing is that I got my cue back, thanks to the aforementioned Brooklyn Butch. He merely had to call and threaten the Whale with annihilation if he didn't ship the cue to him in California. The cue arrived via UPS three days later!

I was at the hotel desk when Keith came down to ask who they had given his key to. It was quickly established that it was "the whale".
Keith won the tournament with a borrowed cue. Ironically, Gary Pinkowski, the promoter, had won the World Series of Tavern Pool with a borrowed cue some years before.