Rogue's list

[Pushout]

You mean people had to wait to get paid back then, too? Yikes!

Somebody kindly sent me this picture, so at least there is a happy memory for Keith to cherish! :smiling-heart:

Gary Pinkowski, Keith, and Mary Lea Jordan at the 1985 BC Open held in Binghamton, NY!

For those who may not know, that's Gary's ex wife! She was still a knock-out, even then.

 

[enzo]

Most larcenous - Pancho (who knows what his real name was???)
Most disgusting (by far!) - Detroit Whitey
Sickest (and craziest) gambler - David Sizemore
Most dangerous - Low Down Dirty Red (aka Preacher Red)
Most dangerous #2 - Cuban Joe
Most insane - Waterdog!!! (a real weirdo!)
Grossest (and yet hilarious) - Omaha Fats

And now for some good ones,
Funniest - Peter Rabbitt
Crazy like a fox - Cornbread
Smartest gambler - Billy Incardona
Smartest gamblers #2 & #3 (Fats and Ronnie)
Best talker (while playing) - Jersey Red
Best fighter (anywhere at anytime)- Danny Diliberto
Nerves of steel - Keith
Nerves of steel #2 - Louie
Sneakiest - Jack Cooney
Unbeatable - Buddy Hall
Most respected - Hubert Cokes
Most unforgettable - Cole
Best voice - Johnny Ervolino

we were watching waterdog play at bobs, and it started raining.... i swear he started missing every ball... and my friend said "maybe that's why they call him waterdog" i swear it was one of the funniest moments in my life.... just too much hilarity. he was kinda odd, but i thought there would have been weirder... i guess he was stranger than i knew.

 

[JAM]

we were watching waterdog play at bobs, and it started raining.... i swear he started missing every ball... and my friend said "maybe that's why they call him waterdog" i swear it was one of the funniest moments in my life.... just too much hilarity. he was kinda odd, but i thought there would have been weirder... i guess he was stranger than i knew.

My memory of Waterdog is from when he came to my neck of the woods looking to get played in 1985. He was kind of quiet, almost shy. The thing I remember about him the most is that he was really, really looking forward to getting a stand-in part in a new movie that was being produced, which later ended up being TCOM. He told us they were paying pool players $50 to be stand-ins, so that the background of the scenes looked real. He really wanted to be in that movie. I didn't sense him being weird, but I did not know him well.

I heard from others, though, that he did suffer from substance abuse, which probably ended his life prematurely. He hailed from Waterford, CT, I believe, which is how he obtained the moniker "Waterdog." He did not have a happy childhood, and so when he was a young'n, he ventured out alone on the road to greener pastures using his cue to lead the way.

There was something very sweet about Waterdog's persona when I met him the one and only time. :smile:

 

[Nostroke]

we were watching waterdog play at bobs, and it started raining.... i swear he started missing every ball... and my friend said "maybe that's why they call him waterdog" i swear it was one of the funniest moments in my life.... just too much hilarity. he was kinda odd, but i thought there would have been weirder... i guess he was stranger than i knew.

I knew him pretty well the last 10+ years of his life and didnt find him that weird either. He owed me $60 that i had pretty much 'gifted' him. He made a score in Va one year and sent the 60 back to me through a friend so I wouldnt consider him a rogue either. I wouldnt doubt Jay either so Dog musta been reformed when i knew him.

 

[JAM]

I was at the hotel desk when Keith came down to ask who they had given his key to. It was quickly established that it was "the whale".
Keith won the tournament with a borrowed cue. Ironically, Gary Pinkowski, the promoter, had won the World Series of Tavern Pool with a borrowed cue some years before.

What a small world. I was part of the local staff of the World Series of Tavern Pool in my area. I still have a few trinkets from that time, like a beer mug, a light, and a banner.

I did not know that about the borrowed cue. You and I need to sit down sometime with a digital recorder, if you'll allow me to interview you! :smile:

 

[RunoutJJ]

Im pretty sure Waterdog is from Watertown, NY... At least that wad the story told in Playing Off the Rail...

 

[JAM]

Im pretty sure Waterdog is from Watertown, NY... At least that wad the story told in Playing Off the Rail...

They could be right, but I recall Connecticut. Maybe he was born in Watertown, NY but grew up somewhere else in CT.

Here's a snippet of something written a while back:

Broke and addicted, pool-hall legend waterdog lives in the shadow of what could have been.

Author: Ted Kleine Date: January 5, 2001 Appeared in Section 1 Word count: 5679

...By Ted Kleine It's been three decades since Waterdog disappeared into the neon wilderness of all-night poolrooms. He was 15 years old, a kid hustler from Connecticut carrying nothing but a cue stick and a bus ticket. In the late 1960s there was action in every town and even a skilled teenager could make money on the road. In Norfolk...

Here's the article: http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/the-boys-at-the-billiard-cafe/Content?oid=872167

He passed away August 9, 2006. Here is an AzBilliards article: Don "Waterdog" Edwards Passed Away.

 

[Nostroke]

My memory of Waterdog is from when he came to my neck of the woods looking to get played in 1985. He was kind of quiet, almost shy. The thing I remember about him the most is that he was really, really looking forward to getting a stand-in part in a new movie that was being produced, which later ended up being TCOM. He told us they were paying pool players $50 to be stand-ins, so that the background of the scenes looked real. He really wanted to be in that movie. I didn't sense him being weird, but I did not know him well.

I heard from others, though, that he did suffer from substance abuse, which probably ended his life prematurely. He hailed from Waterford, CT, I believe, which is how he obtained the moniker "Waterdog." He did not have a happy childhood, and so when he was a young'n, he ventured out alone on the road to greener pastures using his cue to lead the way.

There was something very sweet about Waterdog's persona when I met him the one and only time. :smile:

I agree with your assessment of him. I liked him a lot. He was from Waterbury CT. His real name Donnie Edwards and was also known in the NY area as Buffalo Bill due to his droopy Stache and long hair. His best game may have been straight pool. When he had the mixture right, he performed real good for his backers.

One of the last times i saw him, if not the last. I was walking down 20th st when i heard "Hey wanna play some 9 ball?" He was laying in a doorway-his home on the street.

 

[Nostroke]

Im pretty sure Waterdog is from Watertown, NY... At least that wad the story told in Playing Off the Rail...

That is definitely incorrect as were many other facts in that book. He was from Waterbury CT.

Dog totally disputed the story in Playing off the Rail about him re the *$100 'to keep quiet'. He said he asked for a loan and got it and even paid it back. Said he wished he had known it was "pay off" money cause he wouldnt have had to pay it back.

* this figure could be off some.

 

[JAM]

That is definitely incorrect as were many other facts in that book. He was from Waterbury CT.

Dog totally disputed the story about him re the $100 'to keep quiet'. He said he asked for a loan and got it and even paid it back.

Well, now that you bring it up. Michael "Geese" Gerace was totally pissed off at the way he was described in that book and wanted to sue the author. :embarrassed2:

Another funny memory about that book, the first time Keith and I went to Glen Burnie, MD, to a pool room, we walked in and there were a few locals there. I'd been out of the pool scene for a while, but I did recognize Danny Green, a good local player in my area, inside the joint.

He walks directly right up to Keith and said, "Hi, Keith. My name is Danny Green, the one written about in the book Playing Off the Rail," as if that makes someone a celebrity, I guess. I like Danny Green and don't mean anything negative, but it did tickle my funny bone when he said it.

 

[RunoutJJ]

That is definitely incorrect as were many other facts in that book. He was from Waterbury CT.

Dog totally disputed the story in Playing off the Rail about him re the $100 'to keep quiet'. He said he asked for a loan and got it and even paid it back. Said he wished he had known it was "pay off" money cause he wouldnt have had to pay it back.

Just read this in the thread that JAM posted above...

Yeah Ive heard that a lot fo Playing off the Rail is BS..

 

[Nostroke]

Just read this in the thread that JAM posted above...

Yeah Ive heard that a lot fo Playing off the Rail is BS..

It was still a good perhaps great book that anyone in pool should read. The author was brutally and bluntly honest about the players. It would be near impossible for the author to verify all the info in that book.

 

[macguy]

My personal list has a four way tie for first. Some considerees are still alive and I'd be risking my life if I mentioned them. After they pass I'll gladly share.
I don't have time right now to answer lots of questions. This is just a sampling of what's to come.
In no special order they are: Steve "The Whale"
Detroit Whitey
Dallas Joey
Pancho

Are any of the stories about Whitey and a dog true? You don't have to elaborate just say yes or no.

 

[macguy]

This thread could be a lot of fun - look forward to more great stories.

Nice avatar, JAM...

I'll tell you one about Big Steve. He was just like the scorpion and the frog story. He borrowed my car once for like an hour. A month later I had to pay an auto transport company to bring it back from NJ. a 1000 miles away. On a hunch I called Mizerak's old pool room in NJ where Steve sometimes went and sure enough it was in the parking lot. I have to say though, I once got involved with Steve in a thing and made $400,000 for my self in three months and it was legal. Steve had a lot of moves. One was he would go to those drive away companies that have people drive cars around the country. They used to start you with a tank of gas and maybe $50.00 and you drove the car where it had to go. Steve would get a car that was maybe going to Cal. and drive it to Florida and just keep it for like 6 months before dumping it. These would be Cadys or Lincolns. Also when you signed up for the car he says he has no luggage and they often would fill the car with their stuff, golf clubs and so on. Of course Steve sold all this stuff. Today you could never get away with that kind of scam but this was before computers and internet. I have known a lot of dishonest people but Steve may have been the worst, he just could not be trusted.

Forget his size was also a coward. He also could play and I mean real good. I don't know his record against top players and he would be hard to clock but I saw him play super at times. I have no idea what his top speed was.
Anyone know how good Big Steve really was?

 

[freddy the beard]

Playing off the rail

It was still a good perhaps great book that anyone in pool should read. The author was brutally and bluntly honest about the players. It would be near impossible for the author to verify all the info in that book.

I might as well add my beef with the book. He mentions Tony Antigone coming into my pool room, the Billiard Cafe, and I "wisely" didnt want to have anything to do with him. Anybody that knows me -- I am someone who thrived on a steady diet of the best players in the world, with and without the nuts -- knows for me to duck a good shortstop like Tony was ridiculous. I confronted the author later and he apologized. Literary license he called it.

On the other hand, the book was well written, and his description of my match with Paul Jones was funny and deadly accurate.

Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

In a word....

Are any of the stories about Whitey and a dog true? You don't have to elaborate just say yes or no.

...yes. His dog Windy was quite the porn star. And yes, he did sell his kids to play a pool match.

Here is an excerpt from my book, The GosPool

"A young Brooklyn Jimmy Cassas met Eddie "Detroit Whitey" Beauchene while on the road in Detroit. Whitey kept him up hustling pool for three days using pills. Jimmy had never taken pills before. Finally, Whitey brought Jimmy home with him, but still wouldn't let him go to sleep.
That was when Jimmy found out about Whitey's dark deed. Jimmy overheard a drunken Whitey and his wife arguing. Whitey woke Jimmy and asked him to agree that Whitey had done the right thing— selling his kids to play another pool session! After all, Whitey had had the nuts. (Whitey had lost the session and the kids)."


Beard

 

[Nostroke]

I might as well add my beef with the book. He mentions Tony Antigone coming into my pool room, the Billiard Cafe, and I "wisely" didnt want to have anything to do with him. Anybody that knows me -- I am someone who thrived on a steady diet of the best players in the world, with and without the nuts -- knows for me to duck a good shortstop like Tony was ridiculous. I confronted the author later and he apologized. Literary license he called it.

On the other hand, the book was well written, and his description of my match with Paul Jones was funny and deadly accurate.

Beard

Yeah that one isnt remotely possible. Most of the misfacts have to do with puffing up Tony. As you said he was shortstop but in the book he beats nearly everyone from coast to coast.

 

[Pushout]

What a small world. I was part of the local staff of the World Series of Tavern Pool in my area. I still have a few trinkets from that time, like a beer mug, a light, and a banner.

I did not know that about the borrowed cue. You and I need to sit down sometime with a digital recorder, if you'll allow me to interview you! :smile:

I didn't work there, just happened to be standing there, talking to a player, I think, when Keith walked up. JAM, you've probably got most of my memories from reading my posts!

 

[Pushout]

Anyone know how good Big Steve really was?

I don't but I do seem to remember that he was one of the first of several victims of an about 12 or 13 year old Shannon Daulton at the first BC Open. Shannon was in the practice room getting weight from a lot of people because of his age. Seems like Steve gave him the 7 and Shannon robbed him. Most gave up after a few racks, couldn't handle the weight on the kid The usual game was $30 a rack.

 

[Keith McCready]

I remember the cuestick getting stolen vividly. I remember Steve the Whale very well, and he did take the cue. He almost killed me in New York the way he drives in and out of traffic, going 60, 70, 80 miles an hour, worst than any cab driver ever thought about going in New York. And if you know how the cab drivers are, you know what I'm talking about. They are insane.

Gary and I go way back, besides that tournament. I'm not going to get into the perpendiculars, but people were talking about I might have a hard time cashing my check. Gary took me right to the bank. I didn't have any ID, and Toupee Jay was staking me, so I made arrangements for Toupee to get his end and I got my monies right there, which was cool.

But Jay was in on the party afterwards, pretty hefty bar bill. After I won, I announced to the people in the arena, "The drinks are on me." So everybody piled over and drank until two o'clock in the morning. There was a golf tournament going on at that time as well. I was sitting with Jody Mudd, who I followed on the circuit with my friend from California, and met some other nice people there as well, Freddy Couples and Tom Lehman. I also got the privilege to party with John Fogerty who was playing across the street.

I have to say that was probably one of the most exciting times that I've had playing in a pool tournament. I always liked that tournament. Thanks for the memories. :smile: