Ronnie O'Sullivan vs American Pool Player?

Imagine taking the hole on a golf course, and making it twice as large. Then, shorten every hole by 100 yards. There would be a lot of guys that would be able to compete with the best golfers in the world.

This is snooker vs pool. Big pockets, slop shots, and the power break pretty much determine who will win. Make it a pure skill game, and the best cueists will win. Make it a breaking contest with pockets that will gobble balls, and it levels the playing field.

Shane had a lackluster Mosconi record this year, so I love using Ronnie's Mosconi record as his indication of how he would have done vs an "American" pool player. One of the guys he beat in the 90s was Strickland. So he didn't just beat some chump at 9 ball. He beat one of the best to play the game, while he was in his prime.
 
Colin, did you get a chance to play him in the IPT? What were your impressions of his ability playing 8-ball against the elite of the IPT?
 
Grantstew said:
I never suggested he would dominate
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The posts I was addressing did and if you are in agreement with me that he would not be able to dominate like others have suggested, I don't see the point of your post.

, but that he would join that elite group of players that are at the business end of tournaments. Hell a washed up Steve Davis was able to give the pool players a good run, I don't know why do don't think Ronnie could...
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I also suggested that he would get pretty far in the pool world in my post. I think you should read a little more carefully.
 
Colonel said:
It's a moot point, he plays snooker, Americans play pool. They are 2 different animals. It's like asking who would win in a battle between Godzilla & King Kong, really doesn't matter, never going to happen.
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cmon, man. Now you are just making crazy talk.

Godzilla would put fire on King Kong before thay monkey got close enough to touch him.

/Thread closed
 
"They're just different" is a bogus argument.

Yeah, they're a little different, but come on. Fundamentals of cueing, pocketing balls, playing shape, etc.

But snooker is tougher. The tables are huge, the pockets are tiny, and most importantly, people treat it as a professional sport, with training from a young age, etc. Like tennis, golf, baseball, etc.

That's why you see snooker players with not much experience at pool already playing at or near world-class level. We saw it in early Mosconi Cup, in the IPT, at the world pool championships from time to time, Tony Drago, Steve Davis, etc. We saw it in the women's game over and over again.

On the other hand, there has never been (to my knowledge) even one instance of an American pool player doing anything at all in snooker. Apparently Jim Rempe, one of the top players at the time (higher up the pool ladder than Tony Drago was in snooker, for example), gave it a shot, and got nowhere. Most recently, we have Alex P, also one of the best pool players of the generation, who actually has a fair amount of snooker experience, and has made a serious go at snooker. Has he even qualified for an event yet or won a single match outside of Q school?

I'm rooting for Alex, and I'd love to see more pool players try their hand at snooker. But it sure looks like the skill level is just plain higher in snooker. If it wasn't, we'd expect to see something similar that what happened in women's 9-ball, but in the other direction, given the differential in prize money.
 
trob said:
It's simple If he tomorrow decide to play nothing but American rotation by this time next year he would be dominating everyone. Hell he plays even with them not playing the game and using a snooker cue. There is no American player that even be competitive playing snooker. As I've said before in these arguments snooker players make rock star money. If they could play it over our broke system of low payout tournaments they would. But they can't .... And they know it.

Ronnie is a freak of nature... The greatest cueist ever seen.
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The greatest 'Snooker' cueist maybe ever seen!

number13cfan
 
TX Poolnut said:
Colin, did you get a chance to play him in the IPT? What were your impressions of his ability playing 8-ball against the elite of the IPT?
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I didn't get to play Ronnie, my mate Quinten Hann did and I watched that game. It was a pretty easy win for Quinten, a former E8B World Finalist and Snooker Top 16 and good mate of Ronnie.

I did play against Ralf Souquet, George Breedlove, Karl Boyes, Jason Shaw. I would have been happier to get Ronnie in my draw than those guys. The guy is a champion, but he's second guessing the large balls and so is mid-field in positional play with those balls, compared to near perfect with snooker balls. Doesn't read patterns well, compared to experienced pool players and his break let him down big time. My break and run in the world champs was 32%, his was 14%. That's just a matter of practicing the important parts and familiarity.

One of the players I idolize, as a super talent is Quniten Hann, he looks up to Ronnie in the same way. Ronnie is a one in a million... few in history compare, but different games require very different skill sets. If snooker had gone bust and IPT paid out 10 mill per year as Mr. Trudeau predicted, then I think he might have been among the best within a year or so. But then again, he was probably rich enough to retire by then already, and had almost had a gut full of snooker... and I suspect playing cue sports in general.
 
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Colin Colenso said:
If Ronnie had been born in the US, he'd have probably got a job when he was 18 and be one of those great bar players who could'a been a champion.

Making a few hundred grand and sometimes more a year tends to inspire people. If there were a dozen US players making $200k and beyond a year, the talent pool would be much bigger and the elite, much better.
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IF - small word, big meaning.
Mr. O'Osullivan doesn't need to play Pool which is a shame and body blow to the pool world.
One can only judge a sports person on his time and era and with that IMO, Mr. O'Sullivan would chop down all comers purely based on his ability to pot balls into a pocket. :thumbup:
 
Is it that Mr. O'Sullivan would win every match and all tournaments? Of course he couldn't. No sports person can.
The AZ money leaderboard is a good tool to gage where pro players stand in the world. I'd argue strongly that over the past 5 years SVB has been the highest American player on the board? I'd have to do some research...
So based on this I would strongly favour a Mr. O'Sullivan to top the leader board over the same space of time. :thumbup:
 
trob said:
It's simple If he tomorrow decide to play nothing but American rotation by this time next year he would be dominating everyone. Hell he plays even with them not playing the game and using a snooker cue. There is no American player that even be competitive playing snooker. As I've said before in these arguments snooker players make rock star money. If they could play it over our broke system of low payout tournaments they would. But they can't .... And they know it.

Ronnie is a freak of nature... The greatest cueist ever seen.
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Oh and by the way. He would beat up most pro's playing with his weaker left arm :eek:
 
How's his 3 Cushion Billiard game?

one stroke said:
There is no question in my mind he's closer to playing top tier pool than any pool player is playing top tier snooker

1
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He may be, I've said many times that I like his game, although he'd have to change his stroke and stance to play championship level pool.

How's his 3 Cushion Billiard game? Maybe he could practice and beat the world's greatest billiard players with a 9 mm snooker cue. ;)
 
CJ Wiley said:
He may be, I've said many times that I like his game, although he'd have to change his stroke and stance to play championship level pool.

How's his 3 Cushion Billiard game? Maybe he could practice and beat the world's greatest billiard players with a 9 mm snooker cue. ;)
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CJ; 3 Cushion players DO NOT play with 9mm tips, the most common tip size is, 11.8-12.25! What Ronnie's 9mm tip would have to do with making him a 3C player, I have NO idea!

Maybe He could try the 'small' games first, free game, 1 cushion, Balkline. Some players use, 10.5- 11.5 size tips for those games.
 
Masayoshi said:
The Mosconi Cup is the Mosconi Cup. Not only are the matches races to 5, but iff he was in a tournament, he would have been out before he had the chance to get his 3rd loss (and well before the money in most tournaments). That is a loooooong way from dominating the US in pool, much less the world.

Pool, 9 ball and 10 ball at least, are, by design, games that can not be dominated in the long run. A player may play stellar for a few weeks or months and seem unbeatable, but eventually probability will catch back up to him.
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Don't discount the fact that he *made* the mosconi cup..... they don't let guys off the street play....
 
You always seem to provide exceptional information, like this or statistics that make you take pause.

Thanks,
JoeyA

AtLarge said:
If he had spent the time on pool that he has spent on snooker, I imagine he would be one of the best.

But as just an occasional pool player, he has been mediocre. Two examples:

• He played in 2 Mosconi Cups (9-Ball), 1996 and 1997 (at ages 21 and 22). His record was 2 wins and 3 losses in singles and 2 wins and 2 losses in doubles.

• He played in one of the IPT 8-Ball events, the North Am. Open in Las Vegas in 2006 (at age 30). He won 5 of his 13 matches and 50% of his games with a break-and-run percentage of about 14%.
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Did Quinten Hann ever come back to the game? Or will he ever?

JoeyA

Colin Colenso said:
I didn't get to play Ronnie, my mate Quinten Hann did and I watched that game. It was a pretty easy win for Quinten, a former E8B World Finalist and Snooker Top 16 and good mate of Ronnie.

I did play against Ralf Souquet, George Breedlove, Karl Boyes, Jason Shaw. I would have been happier to get Ronnie in my draw than those guys. The guy is a champion, but he's second guessing the large balls and so is mid-field in positional play with those balls, compared to near perfect with snooker balls. Doesn't read patterns well, compared to experienced pool players and his break let him down big time. My break and run in the world champs was 32%, his was 14%. That's just a matter of practicing the important parts and familiarity.

One of the players I idolize, as a super talent is Quniten Hann, he looks up to Ronnie in the same way. Ronnie is a one in a million... few in history compare, but different games require very different skill sets. If snooker had gone bust and IPT paid out 10 mill per year as Mr. Trudeau predicted, then I think he might have been among the best within a year or so. But then again, he was probably rich enough to retire by then already, and had almost had a gut full of snooker... and I suspect playing cue sports in general.
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it's best to not allow jumping at all (with any cue) when playing the 2-foul rules

DTL said:
I assume you're talking about 2-Foul Push Out rules. I agree 100%.

ps 2-Foul Push Out would almost eliminate the need for the jump cue.
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Yes, the jump cue would dilute some of the best strategies in 2-foul (the two way shot)

As a matter of fact it's best to not allow jumping at all (with any cue) when playing the 2-foul rules. Most pool rooms originally wouldn't allow jumping or masse' shots (you could curve the ball, however the cue could not pass 45 Degrees).
 
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