Rule About Cueball being Frozen to Object Ball

Ball Banger said:
Let me add

The Hand is faster than the eye. Therefore a double kiss is no always seen by the Eye. However with good listening you can hear the double kiss.
BTW This is one of the hardest thing to explain to a Non player in the middle of a game. Therefore it is one foul I will let slide many times rather than have a 1/2 hour discussion.

PS. The Push Shot in the U tube Video is considered a Foul in my area by some people.
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Oops It appears I make a gross understatement about this being hard to explain.
 
Bob Jewett said:
There are two problems. The players don't read the rules. This is true at all levels of the game -- just look at some of the trivial rules questions posted here.

The second is that promoters use their own rules. The jacked-up double hit is legal at Derby City, except, of course in the 14.1 competition. This led to a problem last time as the World 14.1 Champion did the jacked-up double hit and was astounded when I called a foul on him. He did not know the rule, or rather the rule that was in force on that particular table.
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Jacked-up double-hit is legal at Derby? That's mind boggling. Is it in writing somewhere?
 
Thanks Bob, you are really the best at this. Your insight is always helpful....randyg
 
jsp:
Jacked-up double-hit is legal at Derby? That's mind boggling. Is it in writing somewhere?
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Bob Jewett:
http://www.dcctickets.com/TheRules/t...1/Default.aspx
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"Double Hits, Push Shots, Miscues: Object balls frozen to the cue ball or very close to the cue ball require you to elevate the cue approximately 45 degrees to stroke the shot. This will be considered a legal shot even though a double hit may occur. Even with an elevated cue, you cannot place the cue tip on the cue ball and shove it forward or it will be called a push shot and result in a foul. An unintentional miscue is not a foul. An intentional miscue is a foul."

I guess if they're saying a foul isn't a foul, then it makes sense that a non-foul should be a foul.

pj
chgo
 
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Neil:
Incidentally, with only 1/16 inch seperation between balls, it is very possible to get table length follow with a pefectly legal stroke. (ask Scott Lee how it is done) (or give me a p.m.)
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nathan:
Now this I'd have to see to believe.
(not saying it's not possible....but I'm VERY skeptical)
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Even though it's possible, you're right to be skeptical because it's very difficult. There are two techniques:

1. Run your grip hand into something (like the edge of the table) to stop your followthrough. This can be unreliable and painful, especially if you're trying to get tablelength follow with only 1/16" of followthrough room (you'd have to hit it hard).

2. Use a "fouette" (fweh-tay) hit, in which you hit so far offcenter that the tip glances off the CB out of the way, maybe by miscueing.

pj
chgo
 
FYI, here are video demos of several methods to avoid a small gap double hit:

Regards,
Dave

Patrick Johnson said:
Even though it's possible, you're right to be skeptical because it's very difficult. There are two techniques:

1. Run your grip hand into something (like the edge of the table) to stop your followthrough. This can be unreliable and painful, especially if you're trying to get tablelength follow with only 1/16" of followthrough room (you'd have to hit it hard).

2. Use a "fouette" (fweh-tay) hit, in which you hit so far offcenter that the tip glances off the CB out of the way, maybe by miscueing.

pj
chgo
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Ironman317 said:
isn't double hitting the cue ball what is considered a push in this case? if they are frozen, you can shoot straight through the cue ball or jack up.
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Kinda of close but the push would imply that the cue ball is moving in a foward direction in this case a double hit would be striking the cue ball and the cue ball moving back into in the tip.
 
Neil:
There's a third method you apparently don't know about.
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randyg:
Good job Neil. We teach it every day
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Are you waiting to be paid before you'll mention what it is?

The technique Neil and Randy are being so coy (?) about is undoubtedly the one where you use your arm's "finish position" as your "stop". I did forget that one. I don't know why they're playing games with the info, but we don't need them for it anyway - it's in one of the videos Dr. Dave linked to.

pj
chgo
 
Frozen Rock

Anything is permitted when stirking the cue but if the cue passes the object ball before going backwards it was hit twice and that is a foul.
If the balls are almost frozen you can jack straight up and hit the cue a thousand miles a hour in between the cue and the object ball to follow it. The cue will hit the object ball as it bounces off the table and land about a quarter ball behind from where it was struck. Then it will spin like crazy. It is easier to see if you replace the cue with a striped ball. This is the only legal way to follow a almost frozen ball with out jumping over it as you hit it.
Nick :)
 
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I still like the way Grady Mathews said it years ago. It takes all the question out of it. He said it's a legal shot "so long as the cue ball shows character". A draw stroke that slows the CB is an example.

I like that. BTW, on a semi-related topic ... No one calls a foul on an accidental miscue draw stroke where it's obvious the ferrule hits the CB.

Anyway, I like his thought on it and think its the easiest solution.
 
Fast Lenny said:
I have an ESPN match on tape with Allen Hopkins talking about this, one of those things where his giving a tip. He said if the balls are froze you need to shoot it with a level stroke and if they have a gap you must jack up or otherwise they are fouls, perhaps I can somehow get it up on Youtube. :cool:
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That is a misconception; however, what is showing is the best way to avoid a foul.
 
Neil:
You could have found out how earlier if you really wanted to.
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I already knew how, Neil. But I guess those who don't know won't hear it from you unless each one asks you personally, huh? Must be a Christian thing.

pj
chgo
 
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