Rule question -- freakiest scenario

[Peer]

As I was playing 9-ball with my buddy James the other night, he left a hanging five-ball. Since I'm very bad at shooting balls that sit in the jaws of the pockets, I took ample time to figure out what would be the appropriate speed & english to get the cue-ball up table for position on the 6-ball. This took me probably 45 seconds, and then when I went down to shoot -- and I'm not kiddin' -- the very same time as I stroke the cue-ball, the five-ball dropped by itself into the pocket, before the cue-ball got to it. Leaving no ball to hit, naturally also the cue-ball went straight into the pocket.

Everyone who watched the game got a good laugh out of it, seeing my blank "what-the-fu..." expression and perhaps even more so from watching yet another fight erupt between me and James. (Since James is this annoying insecure & low-self-esteem kind of guy, and I'm a champion in class & dignity, in the end I let him have the ball-in-hand that he cried himself to ;^)

However, my question is -- in a tournament do you spot the five-ball, and if so, what do you do with the cue-ball, or does the object-ball stay down and it's a ball-in-hand foul?

-- peer

 

[jay helfert]

You replace both balls in their original positions, as best possible, and then shoot again. It has happened in a tournament before. Good question.

 

[Rubyron]

Well, I don't have my rule book handy but IIRC, I think it goes something like this:

"If you are bigger than your opponent and/or he is a total wuss, the ball is placed back in the pocket. If he is mean looking, the ball stays down and your opponent gets ball in hand.

Hope this helps.

 

[DustyLeigh]

This actually happened to me in a match with Nappy Cheek. He was shooting at the nine ball when it fell and then the cue ball naturally followed it in. My opinion is that the action of striking the cue ball ended any chance for the shooter replaying the shot.

The reality of the situation was that he got to play the shot over. I always had to go along with Nappy because I was winning.

 

[Ed Simmons]

I'm with Jay

 

[DaveK]

The rules are your friends :

http://www.playbca.com/Leagues/Rules/GeneralRules/tabid/369/Default.aspx

General Rule 1.49 , part 4-b

Dave

 

[Roy Steffensen]

Did you win the match?

 

[enlightphoto]

Was this on Tuesday 9/2 at about 8:00 - 8:30 pm by chance? I was leaning on a wall during league nite in Concord when I felt a very small quick movement; my first thought was there had been a small 2.0 quake. (For those outside CA - That's barely feel-able, and not even worth mentioning aloud if you did feel it.)

It'll be nice to know what official rules allow for 'mystery' movement(s).

 

[BigDogatLarge]

You replace both balls in their original positions, as best possible, and then shoot again. It has happened in a tournament before. Good question.

What he said...

Dwight

 

[Patrick Johnson]

You replace both balls in their original positions, as best possible, and then shoot again. It has happened in a tournament before. Good question.

Right. There's a "five second rule" for this situation. If it falls within 5 seconds after it reached that position it stays down; if it falls after 5 seconds, it (and any other balls affected) is replaced as closely as possible to its previous position.

I think this rule was instituted for matches that take place on or near the San Andreas fault.

pj
chgo

 

[Luxury]

I've been aware of the correct ruling on this shot to respot both balls but I've always wondered how many arguments there have been on whether 4, 5 or 6 seconds had passed.

One of the gray areas in the rules there.

 

[Luxury]

Perhaps the next time my opponent leaves one hanging so close that everyone goes, "OHHHHHHHHHHHH" I will start counting aloud, "One...two...threee...four...five."

Then if it falls right before I hit five there will be no arguments when I re spot the ball and take over the table.

I will of course have my rulebook handy.

 

[DaveK]

It'll be nice to know what official rules allow for 'mystery' movement(s).

Colour me stupid, but doesn't the rule I posted in post # 6 in this thread not deal with this exact situation ?????

Dave

 

[stick8]

yep

You replace both balls in their original positions, as best possible, and then shoot again. It has happened in a tournament before. Good question.

I had simular situation,when i was running tournys, aplayer shoot the one it did not go ,but the8ball fell in side pocket without being hit, the shooter missed the one, but wanted to contunior shooting . no, you place 8ball back and next players shoot.

 

[jay helfert]

Right. There's a "five second rule" for this situation. If it falls within 5 seconds after it reached that position it stays down; if it falls after 5 seconds, it (and any other balls affected) is replaced as closely as possible to its previous position.

I think this rule was instituted for matches that take place on or near the San Andreas fault.

pj
chgo

I never liked the five second rule. Who's doing the counting anyway? The way most Tournament Directors have called shots like this, are when the player vacates the table and the other player takes the table it becomes his turn. Prior to that a player can look at a ball hanging on the lip for a few seconds to see if it falls. If it falls he continues shooting. If it falls later, after his opponent has taken the table, it spots back up.

 

[jay helfert]

I had simular situation,when i was running tournys, aplayer shoot the one it did not go ,but the8ball fell in side pocket without being hit, the shooter missed the one, but wanted to contunior shooting . no, you place 8ball back and next players shoot.

Good call.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If you are bigger than your opponent and/or he is a total wuss, the ball is placed back in the pocket. If he is mean looking, the ball stays down and your opponent gets ball in hand. ...

Peer is taller than his opponent but lighter and quite a bit meaner. How would you apply the rule?

As for the 5-second rule, either the referee or the non-shooter should be doing the counting, and the time should start after all balls on the table have stopped apparent motion. The actual number is from Pat Fleming.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I never liked the five second rule. Who's doing the counting anyway? The way most Tournament Directors have called shots like this, are when the player vacates the table and the other player takes the table it becomes his turn. Prior to that a player can look at a ball hanging on the lip for a few seconds to see if it falls. If it falls he continues shooting. If it falls later, after his opponent has taken the table, it spots back up.

That would work for me. In fact, I'd say it could fall any time before the incoming player shoots - if it came that close the previous player earned it.

pj
chgo

 

[Rubyron]

Peer is taller than his opponent but lighter and quite a bit meaner. How would you apply the rule?

My copy of "Dive Bar Pool Rules" states:

"In situations where the players are close to evenly matched, or are both just wusses, the call goes to the shooter who has consumed more alcoholic beverages. If neither has consumed any alcohol yet, the call goes to the shooter who can bench press the most."

I'd say, since Peer has the advantage in meanness, the ball should be placed back in the pocket and he keeps shooting. Unless his opponent has consumed "mass quantities" or has had a really bad day.

 

[Rockin' Robin]

This once happened to me 3 tourneys in a row that I was directing. Only once was there an argument. The argument was whether the ball had hung for a full 5 seconds. Luckily for me, it was a match final played at Galaxy Billiards which had Mike the chef in action with his video equipment. Of course the lady argued that I could not use the replay, buuuuuuut being the TD, I could determine the outcome by ANY means possible. Replay ordered.......clock on screen.....6 seconds before it fell...argument over.
I do like the determination that once the player leaves the table, and the opponent approaches, no timer needed.