Rules question? {Safety after the break}

SpiderWebComm said:
I'm not gonna comment on that thread as it might re-kindle the discussion. I don't have enough beta-blockers to handle another discussion on that topic.
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I started to read that thread and it was actully kind of boring. I see that rule being more black and white, where this thread was a little more discussable (is that a word?).
 
mattman said:
I started to read that thread and it was actully kind of boring. I see that rule being more black and white, where this thread was a little more discussable (is that a word?).
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Both of the threads are black and white, in my opinion. Call safe and make a ball = open table. Scoop the CB into the air, intentional or not = foul.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I'm not gonna comment on that thread as it might re-kindle the discussion. I don't have enough beta-blockers to handle another discussion on that topic.
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LOL, and I was actually about to bump that thread because I had a thought about a point you brought up. Then, I realized it could send you into cardiac arrest, so I thought better of it! :D
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Both of the threads are black and white, in my opinion. Call safe and make a ball = open table. Scoop the CB into the air, intentional or not = foul.
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I think what it boils down to is what league you are playing in. I just called the local chairperson of the VNEA league to sign up for the falls session. I brought the rule up to him and he said that it was a very "obsecure" rule, but the table is not open and the player B is stripes. I asked if that was a local basis or national....he said national.

In this particular case you could debate the shot if the player did not call the ball to that pocket and being a combo, might not have been an obvious shot.
 
mattman said:
I think what it boils down to is what league you are playing in. I just called the local chairperson of the VNEA league to sign up for the falls session. I brought the rule up to him and he said that it was a very "obsecure" rule, but the table is not open and the player B is stripes. I asked if that was a local basis or national....he said national.

In this particular case you could debate the shot if the player did not call the ball to that pocket and being a combo, might not have been an obvious shot.
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Oh geez.......
 
You are correct

BVal said:
It says scored in the favor of the shooter CONTROLLING that specific group. NO ONE has ESTABLISHED CONTROL yet. IT IS OPEN.

BVal
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This has been discussed before.

A legal shot and a legally potted ball are not the same thing, in BCA at least. You can't call safe and designate a ball for a pocket at the same time as the two actions are contradictory.

The ball stays down and the table is still open
 
Do you have to call your shot in this league? That's the only question that needs to be asked... if the answer is yes, then it's open table. If I call the 6 and I make the 13 during open table, I don't have stripes. The fact that the players don't usually call shots out loud anymore shouldn't change matters any.

I guess the silly alternative is to force the shooter to do something as silly as intentionally call another ball in another pocket just so he's not forced into that group.
 
For crying out loud. I've seen enough of these debates over different rules in 8 ball between this league or that league or league rules vs bar rules and bar league rules vs national rules.

Someone come up with some international standards for this game or just shove it off the face of the earth. I've heard people woof at each other for hours over $20/game and that doesn't even compare to the absurd amounts of time people waste arguing over 8 ball rules.

UGH
 
Koopa said:
For crying out loud. I've seen enough of these debates over different rules in 8 ball between this league or that league or league rules vs bar rules and bar league rules vs national rules.

Someone come up with some international standards for this game or just shove it off the face of the earth. I've heard people woof at each other for hours over $20/game and that doesn't even compare to the absurd amounts of time people waste arguing over 8 ball rules.

UGH
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BCA Rules are of course to all intents and purposes identical to WPA World Standardized Rules. Therefore the international standard you are calling for already exists. Getting all leagues in each country, let alone all bars, to actually use them, are quite different matters.....how do you suggest that can be accomplished, take the horse to water and torture it til it drinks?:)
 
mattman said:
I think what it boils down to is what league you are playing in. I just called the local chairperson of the VNEA league to sign up for the falls session. I brought the rule up to him and he said that it was a very "obsecure" rule, but the table is not open and the player B is stripes. I asked if that was a local basis or national....he said national.

In this particular case you could debate the shot if the player did not call the ball to that pocket and being a combo, might not have been an obvious shot.
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Matt, I do beleive your league operator is mistaken. I have several friends here that ref the Indiana state tourney as well as work the national in Vegas. They both said the ruling is open table.
 
memikey said:
BCA Rules are of course to all intents and purposes identical to WPA World Standardized Rules. Therefore the international standard you are calling for already exists. Getting all leagues in each country, let alone all bars, to actually use them, are quite different matters.....how do you suggest that can be accomplished, take the horse to water and torture it til it drinks?:)
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If they can't agree on one set of rules, 8 ball needs to go. Play anything else. Rotation, one pocket, 9 ball, straight pool, banks. Enough of this solids and stripes business.
 
Koopa said:
If they can't agree on one set of rules, 8 ball needs to go. Play anything else. Rotation, one pocket, 9 ball, straight pool, banks. Enough of this solids and stripes business.
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Who are the "they" you refer to?:)

Aren't WPA World Standardized Rules precisely that i.e. standardized rules that all member countries of the WPA agreed to use?;)
 
mattman said:
I think what it boils down to is what league you are playing in. I just called the local chairperson of the VNEA league to sign up for the falls session. I brought the rule up to him and he said that it was a very "obsecure" rule, but the table is not open and the player B is stripes. I asked if that was a local basis or national....he said national.

In this particular case you could debate the shot if the player did not call the ball to that pocket and being a combo, might not have been an obvious shot.
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Tell your league operator he should learn how to play 8-ball correctly before running a league. VNEA's rules are NOT standard 8-ball rules. International professionals, major tournaments, gambling, everything.... all major important 8-ball games are playing with that scenario as an open table. If some of these league players would leave their local bar with their made-up league rules once in a while, they'd know it was an open table.

Sorry for sounding harsh... but man, how on earth can you be a pool fan, hang out on a pool website, and be a student of the game and actually THINK that's not an open table? I guess people's ignorance makes a thread that should be 2 posts into something long and dramatic. Tell your VNEA guy to buy a rules book at Barnes and Noble and look it up. But before they do, let's bet something.
 
Not harsh at all Spiderweb.......and while they're at it they can tell the league operator that whilst there are some other unrelated areas of WPA/BCA Rules in which the wording could be slightly improved there is absolutely nothing at all 'obscure' about how those rules are framed in respect of establishing a crystal clear ruling on this scenario:)
 
SpiderWebComm said:
Sorry for sounding harsh... but man, how on earth can you be a pool fan, hang out on a pool website, and be a student of the game and actually THINK that's not an open table?
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I am not sure if this statement is directed towards me or not (and no, I didn't think you sounded harsh), but I never said that it was my opinion that the table was not open after this shot. In fact, based on the rules post here, I voted that the table was still open.

The only reason I asked the director was because I am playing in "his" league, by "his" rules, I felt the need to know the ruling. I am going to call the head guy on the rules committee and ask him the same question.
 
mattman said:
I think what it boils down to is what league you are playing in. I just called the local chairperson of the VNEA league to sign up for the falls session. I brought the rule up to him and he said that it was a very "obsecure" rule, but the table is not open and the player B is stripes. I asked if that was a local basis or national....he said national.

In this particular case you could debate the shot if the player did not call the ball to that pocket and being a combo, might not have been an obvious shot.
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Matt,
I also believe your friend is wrong. This situation came up in the Indiana state tourney twice; and both times the ruling was the same...open table.
 
memikey said:
Who are the "they" you refer to?:)

Aren't WPA World Standardized Rules precisely that i.e. standardized rules that all member countries of the WPA agreed to use?;)
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Leagues that don't follow World Standardized Rules. I understand that the rules exist and are regarded as the standard to follow, but for some reason there also exists a good bunch of people who won't conform to those rules and thus threads like this one happen.
 
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