Rules question.

If you make the ball you call in the pocket you call, and do not foul, you get credit for any other balls you pocket on that shot regardless of whether they went in before or after the called ball.
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this is my understanding also.

for instance; i don't like to admit it but i've hit a few bad break-balls in my time :o and on more than one occasion i actually missed the shot but then another ball from the opened pack knocks it in the called pocket. that as we all know, counts, but when on that rare occasion this happens, i would never think to re-spot any of the pack balls that went into a pocket prior to the break-ball.
 
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14-1StraightMan said:
... I always heard that if you are shooting and the cue ball is going into a pocket and you catch it with your hand, it is lost of game. ...
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It is unsportsmanlike conduct. The penalty is whatever the referee (or your opponent, in a friendly game) decides.

A very fundamental rule of pool is that you are only permitted to change the position of the balls on the table with a shot. Intentionally changing the position of the balls otherwise is entirely outside the rules.

Catching a ball that may be about to go into a pocket is intentionally touching a ball in play. Yes, it would be nit-picky to call it. I think a reasonable technique if you really need to save time is to put your hand in the pocket below the surface of the table so that you could argue with the nit-pickers that the ball was not in play when you touched it.

There are several ways to cheat with the catch-a-ball move.
 
Thanks Bob

Bob Jewett said:
It is unsportsmanlike conduct. The penalty is whatever the referee (or your opponent, in a friendly game) decides.

A very fundamental rule of pool is that you are only permitted to change the position of the balls on the table with a shot. Intentionally changing the position of the balls otherwise is entirely outside the rules.

Catching a ball that may be about to go into a pocket is intentionally touching a ball in play. Yes, it would be nit-picky to call it. I think a reasonable technique if you really need to save time is to put your hand in the pocket below the surface of the table so that you could argue with the nit-pickers that the ball was not in play when you touched it.

There are several ways to cheat with the catch-a-ball move.
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Thanks Bob: that is what I am talking about all this time. Catching the cue ball with your hand inside the pocket, which would be below the table slate and not interfering with the movement of the ball. The BCA rule book that I have addresses that situation. It is the only place that writes about that exact problem. It states that the 3 foul rule takes place. In any case.
I would play under any rules that pertains to the tournament that is taken place but I do like to know the correct rules for my own peace of mind.
I do see players doing it but I would never call it on anyone. I am happy that they are scratching.
The reason that I bring this up is b/c a long time ago I was playing in a 14-1 tournament. I caught my cue ball as it went into the pocket. Well the other player jumped all over me. Telling me it was lost of game. He was mad that I was winning. He did not call the refer but really gave me hell. Anyways I ended up beating him for 1st place.
 
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14-1StraightMan said:
Thanks Bob: that is what I am talking about all this time. Catching the cue ball with your hand inside the pocket, which would be below the table slate and not interfering with the movement of the ball. The BCA rule book that I have addresses that situation. It is the only place that writes about that exact problem. It states that the 3 foul rule takes place. In any case.
I would play under any rules that pertains to the tournament that is taken place but I do like to know the correct rules for my own peace of mind.
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If your hand is inside the pocket and you catch the cue ball, I'm pretty sure that many referees, strictly adhering to the rules, would call it as unsportsmanlike conduct -- with the penalty (which might be nothing more than a warning upon the first occurrence) up to the referee. You just don't want hands in pockets in top-level events. Haven't you ever seen a ball hit the back of the pocket and pop out? In lower-level play, just don't do it yourself. And if you don't want your opponent doing it, politely ask him not to.

Again, you keep mentioning the BCA rule book you have (from 9 years ago). It is obsolete. The 3-foul rule you mentioned, for example, has also been changed. See paragraph 4.11 Serious Fouls in the current rules. And are you aware of the stalemate rule? That was a significant change, too.
 
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Stop changing what I am trying to say.

AtLarge said:
If your hand is inside the pocket and you catch the cue ball, I'm pretty sure that many referees, strictly adhering to the rules, would call it as unsportsmanlike conduct -- with the penalty (which might be nothing more than a warning upon the first occurrence) up to the referee. You just don't want hands in pockets in top-level events. Haven't you ever seen a ball hit the back of the pocket and pop out? In lower-level play, just don't do it yourself. And if you don't want your opponent doing it, politely ask him not to.

Again, you keep mentioning the BCA rule book you have (from 9 years ago). It is obsolete. The 3-foul rule you mentioned, for example, has also been changed. See paragraph 4.11 Serious Fouls in the current rules. And are you aware of the stalemate rule? That was a significant change, too.
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Hey, thanks for your help. Amend
 
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If you're shooting on a table with a ball return, it's very common in all games of pool to catch a ball that drops in a pocket to save the time and steps of fetching it from the ball return. I'm talking about cupping your hand to catch it as it drops, not touching it when it's still on the slate. I do it all the time. I never even thought anyone might have a problem with it.

If someone wanted to penalize me for that, well, I just don't know what I would do. I certainly wouldn't want to play again with such a nit-picker.

Straight pool is my favorite game and it seems to be making a little comeback, which is great. Let's not get a reputation for being .... well, I don't want to say the word in a gentlemen's forum (and gentleladies).
 
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14-1StraightMan said:
Stop changing what I am trying to say. - Today, 03:48 PM
Hey, thanks for your help. Amend
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That doesn't sound too sincere.

Mike, I'm not aware of changing anything you were trying to say. All I was trying to do was be helpful and answer your question. And I think we all now know the answer under the current rules. If people choose not to follow that rule in non-refereed games, that's fine. In fact, I wish we lived in the same part of the country and could play some 14.1. I'd even let you catch your scratches! Regards.
 
Sorry

AtLarge said:
That doesn't sound too sincere.

Mike, I'm not aware of changing anything you were trying to say. All I was trying to do was be helpful and answer your question. And I think we all now know the answer under the current rules. If people choose not to follow that rule in non-refereed games, that's fine. In fact, I wish we lived in the same part of the country and could play some 14.1. I'd even let you catch your scratches! Regards.
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I am sorry for the last title. I started to get mad and then I caught myself. This all started with just a simple question to get people thinking.
I just like things in writing & not different interpretations of many people.
As for the last poster. I have a ball return table and I can put my hand in the pocket to catch balls. Also, I do not believe that it is so much intentional but an instinct to catch the ball before it goes down. It just happens without thought.
 
Rich93 said:
If you're shooting on a table with a ball return, it's very common in all games of pool to catch a ball that drops in a pocket to save the time and steps of fetching it from the ball return. I'm talking about cupping your hand to catch it as it drops, not touching it when it's still on the slate. I do it all the time. I never even thought anyone might have a problem with it.
.....
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the difference here is a "friendly" game vs a serious tournament match. if a ref is present, let the ball fall. i guess if you were in a money game and you did that, some dip could call "FOUL" but that's unlikely. in a 9-ball money game, racking balls before the last couple of "gimmie" balls have been pocketed is common.
 
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I see no harm in cupping your hand in the pocket to catch a cue ball that is scratching. I've seen this more than once in serious tournament play and so long as you don't touch the CB when it's on the table surface it's no big deal.

The two things that get under my skin (whether casual or serious play) is putting your stick on the table and using it as an aiming device as you walk around the table and check the angles.

And.... Believe it or not, my BIGGEST pet peeve is when during the course of taking an intentional foul, someone taps the top of the cue ball with their ferrule. Call me a purest, but I just think that's a slap in the face to the game of 14.1.
 
3andstop
"And.... Believe it or not, my BIGGEST pet peeve is when during the course of taking an intentional foul, someone taps the top of the cue ball with their ferrule. Call me a purest, but I just think that's a slap in the face to the game of 14.1."

I agree but I let it slide. Ignorance is bliss and wide spread as my favorite teacher Mr. Russler, RIP, told me often.
Do you use the trick where you place the tip of your cue just under the cue ball and lift up real fast and just tick the cue ball?
 
Using the cue

3andstop said:
I see no harm in cupping your hand in the pocket to catch a cue ball that is scratching. I've seen this more than once in serious tournament play and so long as you don't touch the CB when it's on the table surface it's no big deal.

The two things that get under my skin (whether casual or serious play) is putting your stick on the table and using it as an aiming device as you walk around the table and check the angles.

And.... Believe it or not, my BIGGEST pet peeve is when during the course of taking an intentional foul, someone taps the top of the cue ball with their ferrule. Call me a purest, but I just think that's a slap in the face to the game of 14.1.
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Yes, using the cue as an aming device and they are marking the table with the chalk on their tip. They think that everyone is stupid and that no one knows what their doing. The same guys that do this are the ones that
have to Shark in order to try to win.
 
Fenwick said:
3andstop
"And.... Believe it or not, my BIGGEST pet peeve is when during the course of taking an intentional foul, someone taps the top of the cue ball with their ferrule. Call me a purest, but I just think that's a slap in the face to the game of 14.1."

I agree but I let it slide. Ignorance is bliss and wide spread as my favorite teacher Mr. Russler, RIP, told me often.
Do you use the trick where you place the tip of your cue just under the cue ball and lift up real fast and just tick the cue ball?
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You saw what happened to Efren in his match with Dallas West when he hit the cue ball with his ferrule. loss of 30 (for that particular tournament, usually 15) and Efren had to re-break. I guess it is in the referee's discretion.
 
Rich93 said:
If you're shooting on a table with a ball return, it's very common in all games of pool to catch a ball that drops in a pocket to save the time and steps of fetching it from the ball return. I'm talking about cupping your hand to catch it as it drops, not touching it when it's still on the slate. I do it all the time. I never even thought anyone might have a problem with it.

If someone wanted to penalize me for that, well, I just don't know what I would do. I certainly wouldn't want to play again with such a nit-picker.

Straight pool is my favorite game and it seems to be making a little comeback, which is great. Let's not get a reputation for being .... well, I don't want to say the word in a gentlemen's forum (and gentleladies).
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Rich: I know that most of us do it in casual and even in league play. In a tournament I would try to refrain.

Dennis
 
.... Do you use the trick where you place the tip of your cue just under the cue ball and lift up real fast and just tick the cue ball?
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It's an interesting technique, but it is moving the cue ball by a method other than a stroke, so it is unsportsmanlike conduct. There are some poorly informed instructors who actually teach this non-shot.
 
I have an honest question about the intentional foul rule. I've been playing 14.1 my entire life and I don't understand why tapping the CB with the ferrule, sliding the tip along the cloth to the base of the CB, hitting straight down on the CB, etc, is any different than BARELY touching the CB at the equator.

The CB really doesn't move any less/more with any of the options I just mentioned. Why would one be an unsportsmanlike conduct? I KNOW that's the rule--- but it never made sense to me. In 9-ball, if I want to take an intentional--- I just pick up the CB and hand it to my opponent--- I don't have to intentionally scratch and knock it into the pocket first.

Do they think a player will sneeze or flinch and move the ball to an unsatisfactory spot? I'm not sure there was ever a time I wanted to intentionally foul and moved the CB (legally)---- so why the differentiation with that rule?

Makes zero sense to me. Please help.

Dave
 
One situation that may be useful is if your opponent is likely to run the game out (unless you do) and you have limited options.

So lets say if you make a ball in the wrong pocket and scratch and it forces the cue ball to be in the kitchen and the object ball to be spotted up. Spotting this ball may for example make it impossible/unlikely to make a ball in either corner with the cue in the kitchen- it blocks a combo or disallows a carom for example.

A second situation may be if your opponent is on two fowls and perhaps not had one for quite a while (it is always good to be 'neighborly' and tell him/her) but maybe you want them to fowl and have three- another situation where you could gain an advantage.

Like in Chess, sometimes you have to make small sacrifices for the big reward.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
I have an honest question about the intentional foul rule. I've been playing 14.1 my entire life and I don't understand why tapping the CB with the ferrule, sliding the tip along the cloth to the base of the CB, hitting straight down on the CB, etc, is any different than BARELY touching the CB at the equator.

The CB really doesn't move any less/more with any of the options I just mentioned. Why would one be an unsportsmanlike conduct? I KNOW that's the rule--- but it never made sense to me. In 9-ball, if I want to take an intentional--- I just pick up the CB and hand it to my opponent--- I don't have to intentionally scratch and knock it into the pocket first.

Do they think a player will sneeze or flinch and move the ball to an unsatisfactory spot? I'm not sure there was ever a time I wanted to intentionally foul and moved the CB (legally)---- so why the differentiation with that rule?

Makes zero sense to me. Please help.

Dave
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The rule is in place to enforce the game as a gentleman's game. The things you spoke of doing IMHO amount to disrespecting the game and your opponent.

Some people just don't share that sense of etiquette internally, so the rules enforce it for them.
 
SpiderWebComm said:
...I don't understand why tapping the CB with the ferrule, sliding the tip along the cloth to the base of the CB, hitting straight down on the CB, etc, is any different than BARELY touching the CB at the equator. ... Dave
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Dave, I think the answer is simply that a player is required to make a "shot" rather than some other sort of movement or act with the cue stick. A "shot" (paragraph 8.2 Shot) requires "a forward stroke motion of the cue stick."

When you are in tight quarters and want to move the cue ball only slightly -- and your nerves are jumping from pressure (or old age, ha!) -- a legal "shot" is sometimes difficult to perform. It's certainly more difficult than some of the other movements you mentioned.
 
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