Sandbaggers and how do u beat them?

tigerallenyim

tigerallenyim

Hate has no home here
Silver Member
Im a strong SL5 in 8 and 9 and came across a player who is definitely sandbagging in a measure of this:

The opponet would intentionally miss an easy shot leaving me with not much of a saftey option and not much of an offensive shot, and basically if I screw up, the oppoenent has the advantage... basically like having all the pockets blocked with the opponents balls.

The reason why I say the opponent is a sandbagger is because:
1. Intentionally missing the shot instead of running out.
2. When the opponent does intentionally miss, the opponent claims it is not a safety, therefore it doesn't get marked, and because the opponent is the captain, it is hard to be arguementative when I am just the player. My captain is aware of this. But I am certain we have all been here before, u can yell "Sandbagger" all u want, but it won't do much.

The arguement here is not that I dislike Sandbaggers (which I do), i just need to know how to win at this. Everytime I have played this opponent, I simply realized it much later.

Btw, this is in APA.

Any inputs welcomed.

Thanks.

Respectfully,
Tiger
 
Sandbaggers

First of all Sandbaggers are cheaters and can only win when they think they have the nuts. The best way to beat them is to play safe if you think you might miss. Don't shoot up in the air. When the Sandbagger has to kick at a ball a few times he will mentally give up since he's mentally weak to begin with (thats why he sandbags).
 
yeah, the problem is, that he is a 5 as well, and because both of us can run some balls, it's purty tuff to play safe with only a few balls on the table... and funny enuff, i had run it up to that, but after that... it becomes it bit tuffer, and when i did attempt... i failed :( I can attempt to work harder on my safeties, I just think that I have not played much safteties with only two or three balls left on the table... as in APA 8/9 ball. It's funny tho, I just realized the opponent does not play 9 ball, and for some reason my 9 is a tad stronger than my 8. :)
 
the definition of a safety in APA comes do intention. Did they intend to make a ball? If he missed an easy shot, simply giggle... smile and ask "were you trying to make that ball?"...

If the person says yes, no safety recorded. But, nore times than not they will either A. say "no" or B. get angry that they are forced (by rule if they don't want a safety marked) to say "yes" I was trying to make that ball in front of everyone watching with you laughing/smiling and they will not be able to hold their composure after you ask in this manner EVERYTIME they miss a shot you thik they were capable of making easily. (also, the 2nd or 3rd time you ask... rather than the laughing/smiling try asking sceptically (eyebrows raised) "were you trying to make that?!?". Beleive me it's a great way to combat a "Bagger"... attack their ego. They have large one's in most cases. Push 'em, they will give you their full game.
 
Good point. And in a way a talked with the opponent, and explained to me this, "I may miss, but I have great position"...which using some deductive reasoning tells me, the opponent is missing intentionally as a safety and not marking it. U have a good way of handling it and will think about it the next time it comes up, I just need to figure it out mechanically how to win at this as well. :) I can't help but try harder and what I do... hahaha
 
Neil said:
Of course each table setup is different. But see if there isn't some way to make his runout very difficult for him. Tie up his balls with yours or his or with the eight.
Click to expand...

Silly me... I didn't even think about tying up the eight... better walk around the table more again... sometimes this simplest things are right in front of my face.

Thanks.
 
1st post ever.....ok down to business.

I have been doing the APA thing a couple years and I am a SL7 in 8 and a SL8 in 9 ball. Sometimes I feel like everyone is a sandbagger when I am played a close match, I neglect to consider did they just have a good night or did I have a bad night. Also a thing to consider is they may just be a Super 5 for the moment and at any day they will be a SL6. At any rate what I am getting at is the best solution I have ever found for playing a person that sandbags is...to just focus on my own game.

Sometimes people can shoot you intentional dogs just to run innings up, but do you cash in when they err? As I was coming up in handicap I realized that it is far better(easier to sleep also) if you try your best and lose versus getting into a pissing match with an opponent and ultimately end up playing their game. If they are able to sandbag they fundamentally have to be losing or giving an opportunity to be beaten so focus on strengthening your game to be ready to seize the moment. Cheers
 
mikeyfrost said:
1st post ever.....ok down to business.

I have been doing the APA thing a couple years and I am a SL7 in 8 and a SL8 in 9 ball. Sometimes I feel like everyone is a sandbagger when I am played a close match, I neglect to consider did they just have a good night or did I have a bad night. Also a thing to consider is they may just be a Super 5 for the moment and at any day they will be a SL6. At any rate what I am getting at is the best solution I have ever found for playing a person that sandbags is...to just focus on my own game.

Sometimes people can shoot you intentional dogs just to run innings up, but do you cash in when they err? As I was coming up in handicap I realized that it is far better(easier to sleep also) if you try your best and lose versus getting into a pissing match with an opponent and ultimately end up playing their game. If they are able to sandbag they fundamentally have to be losing or giving an opportunity to be beaten so focus on strengthening your game to be ready to seize the moment. Cheers
Click to expand...

I agree, doesn't matter if they are sandbagging when your at the table, it's your time.
 
I hate the apa to be honest i consider it to be a recreational league like something to fill a thursday night when your wife is home watching desperate housewives or something. Which is good for some but it is a hard enviroment to learn the game IMO.
 
don't. If someone is bagging, and it's obvious (say a true 6 playing as a 4 in 8ball); just make the 8ball outta turn a couple of times. He ends up winning 3-0 or 4-0 (whatever) in very few innings. I know folks will say this won't get him raised, but it will (happened to me). Or, you can let him get to Vegas (where you DO NOT want to try to pull this stuff) and let him get his team DQed...lol

When I played APA it seemed the goal around here was to play at least one rank below your true speed. Not fun at all!!!
 
Just play your game. Before the match even starts the sandbagger will have determined whether s/he is going to throw the match, or try to win it. If is becomes obvious s/he is throwing it, then just win it. If s/he trying to win it, then play safeties until s/he starts crying like a baby.
If s/he is trying to go hill/hill, then just try your best to win.

When I played APA, I was an SL7, and I enjoyed playing sandbaggers. For me, most sandbaggers won't try to win against a high SL player, unless they really need the win. So, when I play a sandbagger, s/he is trying their best, and I love destroying sandbaggers when they are trying to bring their A-game.
My strategy when playing a sandbagger that is bringing their A-game to the table, is simple....I try to play me best.
If the sandbagger is a good shot maker, I will play safeties until s/he gets out of stroke. I will generally shoot carom shots. I will look at my opponent's OBs that are closest to pockets, and I will use my OBs to glance/carom off their OBs. This results in their easy OBs, aka "ducks", being frozen or tied up near a rail, and my OB is sitting in the pocket. When all my balls are....sitting ducks, I run it out.

Here is an example:

You broke, and you pocketed the 15 ball on the break.....

CueTable Help

 
In apa the score sheets do not have to match just mark the safty on your sheet. The leauge operator will catch on. Your captain can also file a complaint the leauge I belonged to would send someone from another area to investigate complaints.
 
Just to be fair, sometimes people just miss easy outs.....I have done it in league and in tournies....hell, played in a tourney this last weekend....first match, he misses, I run out....he misses, I run out....he misses, I run out......fourth game, he misses, I miss easy shot, he misses, I miss easier shot.....guy looked at me like I was missing on purpose....just looked at him and said, "yeah, I can't believe I missed them either"....got it together in the 5th game...

Worst part.....I played aweful the rest of the day and missed many easy shots, almost to the point of embarrassment....it happens....rarely, but when it does, it sucks....

Not saying that is what happened, just saying it's plausible....
 
tigerallenyim...There is no need to argue with your opponent (whether they are team captain or not). Why do you think there are scoresheets for both teams? Mark the defensive shot for guys like this, whether they do or not. Make a notation on the back of the scoresheet, to bring it to the attention of the league operator. BTW...intentionally missing, rather than attempting to run out, is called safety play. AGAIN...mark it on the scoresheet, whether they do or not. It's pretty simple...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

tigerallenyim said:
The reason why I say the opponent is a sandbagger is because:
1. Intentionally missing the shot instead of running out.
2. When the opponent does intentionally miss, the opponent claims it is not a safety, therefore it doesn't get marked, and because the opponent is the captain, it is hard to be arguementative when I am just the player. My captain is aware of this. But I am certain we have all been here before, u can yell "Sandbagger" all u want, but it won't do much.

The arguement here is not that I dislike Sandbaggers (which I do), i just need to know how to win at this. Everytime I have played this opponent, I simply realized it much later.

Btw, this is in APA.

Any inputs welcomed.

Thanks.

Respectfully,
Tiger
Click to expand...
 
Couple of you beat me to it.

Yes, if you feel your opponent is really playing safeties, then mark your sheet accordingly. But don't go marking it out of spite to mess with them - be honest about it.
 
Apa

Scott Lee said:
tigerallenyim...There is no need to argue with your opponent (whether they are team captain or not). Why do you think there are scoresheets for both teams? Mark the defensive shot for guys like this, whether they do or not. Make a notation on the back of the scoresheet, to bring it to the attention of the league operator. BTW...intentionally missing, rather than attempting to run out, is called safety play. AGAIN...mark it on the scoresheet, whether they do or not. It's pretty simple...

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott,

I used to play APA and this is one of the reasons I quit. If you have a bad league operator as we do, nothing will be done about having scoresheets with safeties vs. without. The APA league Ops (some of them) want to make money. They don't want to have to critique teams that are sand bagging, or have player councils to review teams accused of it. They make the same money by doing nothing.

My advice to the OP is look at the table more closely in the beginning and recognize where the problem area is and take a good measure of his/her ability to get to it. Much better to play safe early in the game and use BIH to attack that problem then wait until you're in "One Ball Hell" and no place to hide the rock.
 
Believe it or not, the APA contract with league operators, has a clause in it that allows the parent company to "rescind" the franchise...with NO COMPENSATION...if it is determined that the l.o. is acting outside the parameters of the overall organization, or doing something outright illegal. So to say that nothing can be done about bad league operators is akin to saying a black man could never be president here. It took a lot of work, by a lot of people, who cared...but the job did get done, in the long run.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

ne14tennis said:
Scott,

I used to play APA and this is one of the reasons I quit. If you have a bad league operator as we do, nothing will be done about having scoresheets with safeties vs. without. The APA league Ops (some of them) want to make money. They don't want to have to critique teams that are sand bagging, or have player councils to review teams accused of it. They make the same money by doing nothing.
Click to expand...
 
ne14tennis said:
Scott,

I used to play APA and this is one of the reasons I quit. If you have a bad league operator as we do, nothing will be done about having scoresheets with safeties vs. without...
Click to expand...

Don't know if it matters. I spoke with the league operator today, she said all scoresheets must be sent to APA/corprorate (St. Louis) for review anyway. I imagine regardless of how much the local person is slacking the APA will catch it. Again, not sure but definitely worth the effort to mark safes... the catch is.. that the other teams captain is responsible for reviewing your teams scoresheet before he signs it and if he see's those safes on your that aren't on his, he's gonna ask... then you have to expalin all the way back to those safes when they happened and why you felt they were safeties.

take my advice for earlier in the thread... attack his ego. lol. not so subtle manipulation! make him give you his whole "A" game. get into his head don't let him get into yours by doing nothing... (it's not unfair, or sharking and there is no need to be obnoxius when you do what I recommended) laugh if you want, it works. Im sure you've heard the saying... this game is 99% mental and the other half is physical.
 
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Why do you care if he is sandbagging? Someone said it in an earlier post...play your game, don't show fear (whining and faces about how unfairrrrr it is) and take control. If hides you, kick it and show no emotion. Hit or not. They are too afraid to fail so they try to hide their true speed. Go after them and they fold like a house of cards. All of a sudden they make mistakes, and THEY start whining.....
 
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