Sandbaggers on APA Regionals

[IbeAnEngineer]

APA and Sandbagging

I played APA from 1992 till 2006 at which time my team decided to give it up. Too tired of the politics and having to spend entire weekends in much less than desirable bars playing in Tri-Cups or City tourneys. There are a LOT of players that do not sandbag in that league. Who are out to mainly have fun and play some pool. The people who really ruin everything and really Pi#$ me off are the team captains that go out and recruit a player who has never been in the league and can play 6+ level speed in 8 ball. The captain then has his new guy dump for the first season and he gets rated as a 3 or maybe 4. When the city tourney comes around this guy is a LOCk for the win. When all of the higher handicap players report this to the LO. The LO does nothing because the captain is a buddy of his. In the end, everyone complains but nobody quits. So, there is nothing to encourage the LO to really do anything. If say 25% of the teams got together and told the LO they were out of there unless something got done..then something would happen. Basically, what I am saying is.. If you don't like sandbagging vote with your feet..hit the LO in the wallet and he will do something...If all you do is complain and keep paying all you will get is just what you have been getting...

 

[MBTaylor]

I shoot in the Maryland APA in the Baltimore area and I have seen my fair share of sand bagging but it is a relatively small problem.

Sand bagging is sort of a hard thing to address unless someone in the LO knows for sure what is going. There are always variables such as poor sports who complain because they lost, maybe the person is having the night of their lives and never shot a better match, or the system is slow in catching up with them.

Write ups don't do much unless the LO gets enough complaints and sees a clear pattern developing or the div reps give feed back to the office.

The captain of the winning APA 8 ball team at nationals last year was kicked out of the Baltimore area APA for shooting a person under their SL. To a certain part, it was the team captain's fault because he knew he was a SL 7 level shooter. However, some other well known members of the Maryland area APA knew the shooter and told the team captain, "sure bring him in as a 4..." eventhough they knew he should have started as a 6 or 7, which the captain has the option to do when adding a known shooter to a team. Well anyway, the person went on to crush people and was stuck as a 3 for a long time. Based on his performance, the office could have raised him manually instead of letting the computer do it. I have spoken to the person who was underrated, because I go to the pool hall he works in, so I have the story pretty straight.

The problem with this, was that the captain was suspended locally but then went down to the DC area and promptly made it to Vegas and won the whole thing.

A problem I have seen in APA is that people LET the sand bagging happen. Team captains and score keepers who do not mark defensive shots bear a large part of the blame for the ease of which people sand bag. People who refuse to do write-ups bear a burden also. Sure, there are the captains who actively promote it, but to a larger extent, it is other league members in the division who allow it to happen.

If the league members don't do their part, the LO and office staff can't do much. Sand bagging, and similar forms of cheating need to be punished more severely by the national office and the local league operators.

Voting with your feet is an option with smaller leagues/franchises, but in a league as big as this one, with about 25,000 active members, a few teams threatening to walk means absolutely nothing. For every person who walks, 10 will join the league.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Lol

As an instructor, NONE of my players could fool me...and none did, over the 4 yr period I was a league operator.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Keep thinking that Scott....

Reminds me of the guy that went to Vegas to gamble because he had a system...

LOL, the strip is built on guys that have a system.

Ken

 

[D_Lewis]

Keep thinking that Scott....

Reminds me of the guy that went to Vegas to gamble because he had a system...

LOL, the strip is built on guys that have a system.

Ken

Ken, I'll play you with our current handicaps. You in vegas this year for singles?

 

[Ken_4fun]

D_Lewis

Ken, I'll play you with our current handicaps. You in vegas this year for singles?

Sorry, I wont be in Vegas, I havent played leagues in years. Where are you in Canada?

I am with a company and will be traveling on business to Canada this year.

I expect to go to Perth and St. Armand this year. I did okay last time I was up there but playing snooker on the 6 X 12 tables was killer. I got murdered playing snooker on them but did okay otherwise.

Ken

 

[D_Lewis]

Sorry, I wont be in Vegas, I havent played leagues in years. Where are you in Canada?

I am with a company and will be traveling on business to Canada this year.

I expect to go to Perth and St. Armand this year. I did okay last time I was up there but playing snooker on the 6 X 12 tables was killer. I got murdered playing snooker on them but did okay otherwise.

Ken

Oh, I only play SL3's on barbox. ha.

Im in Hamilton, about 45 mins from Toronto.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Okay

Oh, I only play SL3's on barbox. ha.

So I guess, I am confused. You only want to play on barbox?

That's okay. I prefer full size but I would play on barbox.

Ken

 

[D_Lewis]

So I guess, I am confused. You only want to play on barbox?

That's okay. I prefer full size but I would play on barbox.

Ken

I figured you would be in vegas with your sandbagging and whatnot to take a crack at the first prize money. When better time?!

 

[Ken_4fun]

Youll do okay...

I figured you would be in vegas with your sandbagging and whatnot to take a crack at the first prize money. When better time?!

If you go to Vegas.....you be in a room with alot of former and current sandbaggers...

LOL

Ken

 

[D_Lewis]

If you go to Vegas.....you be in a room with alot of former and current sandbaggers...

LOL

Ken

Not if, WHEN. haha.

Now I just have to figure out how to play well to beat some sandbaggers.

 

[Ken_4fun]

Good luck

Not if, WHEN. haha.

Now I just have to figure out how to play well to beat some sandbaggers.

I wish you the best of luck my friend.

Your friend in pool,

Ken

 

[D_Lewis]

I wish you the best of luck my friend.

Your friend in pool,

Ken

Maybe I should find out who I play and buy them drinks all day...... all of them.

Or learn to play a safety once in a while.

 

[Ken_4fun]

A hint

Maybe I should find out who I play and buy them drinks all day...... all of them.

Or learn to play a safety once in a while.

I just break and run out each time.....just have your friends mark down alot of innings and safeties...

Opps did I say that?

ken

 

[D_Lewis]

I just break and run out each time.....just have your friends mark down alot of innings and safeties...

Opps did I say that?

ken

Thats what I do! Minus the innings and whatnot.

 

[SCCues]

Apa

Hi there,
Just a topic for discussion...
Why do people need to be sand baggers? I was 1 game away to make it to the finals on my SL to the APA Nationals, on the regionals this weekend in Bakersfield until I found a sand bagger. It is unfortunate and people like that should be disqualified or bumped to the level they should be on. I am not not crying but I am venting lol. I am a SL5 and I was playing a guy that just got bumped to a 6 but actually should be at least a 7.
It gets worst when we go to Vegas and APA officials do not do anything about it on the spot, not after you loose the match.
Anyway, we played on bar tables that had cloth, nasty cloth (balls on my carpet roll faster than that).
Can't believe APA does the regionals at Corner Pocket in Bakersfield... No free practice tables, restrooms are the nastiest I have seen in my life, can't do a dump without people watching... Unbelievable.
Anyway, I did meet some really nice people there and the beer on draft was not that bad either!

I've yet to go to a APA play off and not run into a team that had 1 or 2 players well below what their handicap should be. I've lost trips to Las Vegas to teams with sand baggers and it's disgusting. It's rampant in my area and I don't know what the league operator can do to catch them all. People have figured the system out and you'll never stop it. There will always be someone trying to beat the system......

James

 

[Robbie]

I just break and run out each time.....just have your friends mark down alot of innings and safeties...

Opps did I say that?

ken

Ya you did! Well, if you cant win straight up, you gotta do something, right?!


If you can, just do what two of my friends did last year. They never played in the CPA before, only in tournies. They just went down, entered themselves as 7s in 8ball and 9s in 9ball, just gambled and played the minis. Made more money than anyone else Ive met thats gone down for a CPA event.

I know, I know, your goal is just the regionals and getting to Vegas though, not to make money

 

[Guerra Cues]

I am going to the Singles Open in Vegas. There are no sand baggers there. You either play to win or you loose. Good rep for BCA members!

 

[Juda4936]

Quit APA and Join BCA

I play APA because my father and wife play, so it is just for fun I'm a 7 in 8 ball and a 8 in 9 ball and last night was beat by a 4sl 5 game 7 inning and I shot some defence, but I do not care

I play BCA to play pool, APA sucks! and if my family did not play I would only play BCA.
There is NO Sandbagging in BCA there is No reason too.

You get more money back, quicker play, and all the money you are paying the APA LO on live a nice life on your pool money you can just save, pay and go to Nationals or to another tournaments

PLAY BCA it is just good times and good players

 

[Flettir]

Consistency

Hi there,
Just a topic for discussion...
Why do people need to be sand baggers? I was 1 game away to make it to the finals on my SL to the APA Nationals, on the regionals this weekend in Bakersfield until I found a sand bagger. It is unfortunate and people like that should be disqualified or bumped to the level they should be on. I am not not crying but I am venting lol. I am a SL5 and I was playing a guy that just got bumped to a 6 but actually should be at least a 7.
It gets worst when we go to Vegas and APA officials do not do anything about it on the spot, not after you loose the match.

Hello Tony, now that I know who you played I can explain why he is the level he is at and why it appears he is sandbagging.
It has to do with consistancy. Some nights he shoots lights out pool, esp during tournaments until he has lost his first game. When that happens it becomes like most of his league nights, and he gets drunk. His game goes into the toilet and he loses. Not because he is trying to lose but because his judgement is impaired.
The LO could just rate him by his sober nights if someone took the time to say "Ya, I won last night, but it was only because he was drunk." (fat chance of that ever happening). Also, I not sure if there is a check box on the data entry screen for drunk when the LO is entering the scores.

 

[Guerra Cues]

Hello Tony, now that I know who you played I can explain why he is the level he is at and why it appears he is sandbagging.
It has to do with consistancy. Some nights he shoots lights out pool, esp during tournaments until he has lost his first game. When that happens it becomes like most of his league nights, and he gets drunk. His game goes into the toilet and he loses. Not because he is trying to lose but because his judgement is impaired.
The LO could just rate him by his sober nights if someone took the time to say "Ya, I won last night, but it was only because he was drunk." (fat chance of that ever happening). Also, I not sure if there is a check box on the data entry screen for drunk when the LO is entering the scores.

What happened with me was unreal. I had 3 shots in the whole match where I could see at least my balls. Incredible!