SBE 2012 Constructive Criticism

[cookie man]

Let me again clarify this again. You said " being promised every year there will be plenty of mini tournaments but then they give so many tables to tap that at the event they say sorry we don't have any tables available.

TAP is not the problem here. We tell Allen how many tables we will need, we pay for those tables and from Thursday at 5 pm and on those tables are TAP's. We are not "given" tables. TAP is going to have a even larger presence at the SBE in coming years and we will plan with Allen how many tables will be needed as well but TAP is not taking tables from the general public, the open or any minis.

I have been going for many years and the more TAP expands the less fun I have. It has gotten too crowded and say what you want the excuse from Allens people is that they don't have the tables for mini's. If TAP didn't need so many they would have more.

 

[JB Cases]

Next year I am seriously considering trying to rent a table for myself for the whole event. One table that I pay for, say $500 or $250 or whatever the rental is and then I am sure that I have a table to play on after the booth closes. I don't know about the tournament side but on the "pit" tables it was insane with waiting lists 20 people deep and of course everyone signing up on every table within reach.

My suggestion to the pit players is to play ring games on every table where the person who sells out drops out and the next person on the list comes in. That way in a five handed ring game each game is worth $40 to the winner and only $10 to the losers and it keeps the games moving faster and gets more play in for everyone.

I have to say that on the tournament side me and putuporshutup found a table to play some barbox 1-hole on and we had enough time for me to go from being $40 down when we started to $140 down before a tournament match showed up. :-(

 

[desmocourtney]

Well said, my friend!

I do want add to an earlier post that I don't think tap should leave. they should open up the 3rd hall for them though. I just get tired of being promised every year there will be plenty of mini tournaments but then they give so many tables to tap that at the event they say sorry we don't have any tables available. I'm not a tap player but they bring a lot of people and drive along way to get there and I'm sure spend a lot of money. I'd just like for the rest of us that our playing in a single elimination tournament to be able to play more pool . I mean I play less pool in those four days then I do when I'm at home.. lol

 

[sfleinen]

Next year I am seriously considering trying to rent a table for myself for the whole event. One table that I pay for, say $500 or $250 or whatever the rental is and then I am sure that I have a table to play on after the booth closes. I don't know about the tournament side but on the "pit" tables it was insane with waiting lists 20 people deep and of course everyone signing up on every table within reach.

My suggestion to the pit players is to play ring games on every table where the person who sells out drops out and the next person on the list comes in. That way in a five handed ring game each game is worth $40 to the winner and only $10 to the losers and it keeps the games moving faster and gets more play in for everyone.

I have to say that on the tournament side me and putuporshutup found a table to play some barbox 1-hole on and we had enough time for me to go from being $40 down when we started to $140 down before a tournament match showed up. :-(

John:

The problem with this is that you'll have the serious gamblers trying to strongarm you for time on that table that you're renting. A good example of how bad this is, happened with the 14.1 Challenge. Afterhours, when the pros get done with their Open 10-ball matches, we were swamped. The artistic pool (trickshot) space was right next door to us, and they closed-down at 8pm or thereabouts each evening. So they (the artistic pool folks) saw how busy we were, and gave the 14.1 Challenge gracious permission to overflow onto their pool tables in that area afterhours. So we had 4 tables going instead of 2, and even then, there was a waiting list of people wanting to play in the challenge.

Here come the serious gamblers, seeing that the artistic pool space "is being used by other than artistic pool people," and they suddenly think they can come in and commandeer these tables. They see that the two tables that we (14.1 Challenge) overflowed onto, "has only one person playing at each table," so they think we're just practicing or something. They try to bump us off -- saying they have big-time gambling matches that are more important than "practice" or "small stakes gambling." Suddenly there's a big ruckus in this area as we have to explain to them who we are, what we are doing, and that these tables are not "open" for use.

This goes on every night, multiple times. One caravan of gamblers after another tries to muscle-in on these tables, and each time, we have to seriously push back and defend the tables, explaining that what we're doing is an *event* -- not gambling, and not practice. One time it got so confrontational, that Allen Hopkins Sr. himself had to come over and intervene.

Trust me, John, you get a table "rented" for your use exclusively, and watch what happens after hours. If the 14.1 Challenge went through what it did -- and it was an *event* -- you can imagine what a "'practice' table that is rented" is going to experience.

Just some food for thought,
-Sean

 

[Bambu]

Looked to me like a few guys rented private tables with no problems. A piece of paper left on the table with their name seemed to work somehow. Maybe they stormed the 14.1 area because it had the only 2 big tables.

 

[JB Cases]

John:

The problem with this is that you'll have the serious gamblers trying to strongarm you for time on that table that you're renting. A good example of how bad this is, happened with the 14.1 Challenge. Afterhours, when the pros get done with their Open 10-ball matches, we were swamped. The artistic pool (trickshot) space was right next door to us, and they closed-down at 8pm or thereabouts each evening. So they (the artistic pool folks) saw how busy we were, and gave the 14.1 Challenge gracious permission to overflow onto their pool tables in that area afterhours. So we had 4 tables going instead of 2, and even then, there was a waiting list of people wanting to play in the challenge.

Here come the serious gamblers, seeing that the artistic pool space "is being used by other than artistic pool people," and they suddenly think they can come in and commandeer these tables. They see that the two tables that we (14.1 Challenge) overflowed onto, "has only one person playing at each table," so they think we're just practicing or something. They try to bump us off -- saying they have big-time gambling matches that are more important than "practice" or "small stakes gambling." Suddenly there's a big ruckus in this area as we have to explain to them who we are, what we are doing, and that these tables are not "open" for use.

This goes on every night, multiple times. One caravan of gamblers after another tries to muscle-in on these tables, and each time, we have to seriously push back and defend the tables, explaining that what we're doing is an *event* -- not gambling, and not practice. One time it got so confrontational, that Allen Hopkins Sr. himself had to come over and intervene.

Trust me, John, you get a table "rented" for your use exclusively, and watch what happens after hours. If the 14.1 Challenge went through what it did -- and it was an *event* -- you can imagine what a "'practice' table that is rented" is going to experience.

Just some food for thought,
-Sean

I hear you. I think it comes with the territory, said in the most primal way, that you have to defend your turf at events like this.

I think that there are ways to make it clear that certain tables are only for certain uses.

Also I think it's a shame that there were no big tables in the gambling arena.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have a pool hall environment there. Have a desk and rent the balls per hour just like a pool room. Have a waiting list just like a pool room. Have some tables be challenge tables and the others be rentals.

I guarantee you though that if I rent a table for the duration of the event then no one is getting on it that I don't want to be on it. And when I want to play on it then whoever is on it will get off.

We actually did well in years past by having a booth where we could hold private parties so to speak and thus allow our friends to play all night for free on our tables in the booth. IF the layout is the same for next year I will try hard to push for that.

 

[sfleinen]

Looked to me like a few guys rented private tables with no problems. A piece of paper left on the table with their name seemed to work somehow. Maybe they stormed the 14.1 area because it had the only 2 big tables.

Yes, that is true -- 9-footers were in high demand after hours. Although he didn't mention it specifically, I imagine John was thinking of a 9-footer instead of a barbox (especially since he mentioned one pocket).

-Sean

 

[sfleinen]

I hear you. I think it comes with the territory, said in the most primal way, that you have to defend your turf at events like this.

I think that there are ways to make it clear that certain tables are only for certain uses.

Also I think it's a shame that there were no big tables in the gambling arena.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to have a pool hall environment there. Have a desk and rent the balls per hour just like a pool room. Have a waiting list just like a pool room. Have some tables be challenge tables and the others be rentals.

I guarantee you though that if I rent a table for the duration of the event then no one is getting on it that I don't want to be on it. And when I want to play on it then whoever is on it will get off.

We actually did well in years past by having a booth where we could hold private parties so to speak and thus allow our friends to play all night for free on our tables in the booth. IF the layout is the same for next year I will try hard to push for that.

John:

What was nice in years past is that the Fury booth had a *cage* setup, with an actual locking door. So it was very easy for you to protect the 9-footer you had in that booth, as well as have after-hours parties that were immune to the strongarming.

This year was different, obviously because of the new venue, but I'm hoping in future years -- if it stays there -- that the same idea can be used. Booth cages would address any security issues, and decrease the dependence on overnight rent-a-cops.

And I definitely think the action area needs 9-foot tables. This year's experience proves that out.

Anyway, I think this thread is great in centralizing all these good ideas for future improvements. I know the SBE crew is listening.

-Sean

 

[Bambu]

Yes, that is true -- 9-footers were in high demand after hours. Although he didn't mention it specifically, I imagine John was thinking of a 9-footer instead of a barbox (especially since he mentioned one pocket).

-Sean

Heh, didnt know you couldnt play 1 pocket on a small table. A big table for 500 would be nice if you could get it.

What I thought would have been really cool was some set gambling tables. That way, you dont have to look for a game or wonder whats going on. 10, 20, 40 and 100 dollar tables, each with chalk boards. Like a casino, even 5 dollar tables could work. We could use chips to make it legal, and kick back a small vig to the house.

 

[sfleinen]

Heh, didnt know you couldnt play 1 pocket on a small table. A big table for 500 would be nice if you could get it.

What I thought would have been really cool was some set gambling tables. That way, you dont have to look for a game or wonder whats going on. 10, 20, 40 and 100 dollar tables, each with chalk boards. Like a casino, even 5 dollar tables could work. We could use chips to make it legal, and kick back a small vig to the house.

You could play one pocket on a barbox, but I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's much, much better on a 9-footer. One pocket on a barbox is like 9-ball on a barbox; the game is actually made easier by the short track. What would normally be low-percentage shots on a 9-footer, are actually now high percentage shots on a barbox. The whole ratio of percentages (shot-difficulty-wise) is thrown askew on a barbox -- not a nice thing to do to such a noble game as one pocket.

As for your idea, I think it's great! It would definitely address a lot of concerns, and help smooth things along. There was an action area at this year's SBE, but as you know, it was small in comparison to years past. That area definitely needs some 9-footers for sure.

-Sean

 

[classiccues]

If we had crossed paths I would have told you what I think of you. As it was I decided not to go to your booth to avoid telling you what I think of you.

This has zero to do with me and you. Fact is that you are acting like a nit.

After day one there was zero access to the booths after 8 so what is your problem?

In the old place Allen didn't take responsibilty for your stuff either. Other vendors locked their booths down but its too much for you???

So much so that you call the Hopkins dishonest?

As for me and you I am in philly still if you want to meet somewhere privately to discuss your issues.

www.jbcases.com

Fact is I was there and you choose now to start name calling. You could have came over and told me what you thought of me at anytime. Believe me, you wouldn't have liked the response. But knowing you, you would have had someone like your kid, or wife with you as a human shield.

BTW Friday the second day, there were people walking the exhibit EARLY before 11, before they had the idea of putting the tables up to prevent walkthrough . Just an FYI since you obviously don't know what was going on, as if that is a surprise.

The show had full lockout after 8 ay the VFCC. Closed doors that were locked. Its not about him being responsible for my stuff, if you knew how to read, you would know that.

The dishonest part is the exhibitors parking pass, so pay attention. As I said when the merchandise is cheap, it doesn't much matter how the security is. Vendors with real merechandise walking across a dark unlit parking lot is, as anyone who parked in the back will tell you.

Again, you wait till I am 200 miles away to issue a challenge, when you had 4 days to step up. John, we expect nothing less.

JV

 

[trob]

Unless they get a gambling license all the gambling going on on those tables is highly illegal in pa lol so Allen sure isn't going to want to get involved.

As far as tap I wasn't blaming tap... Im blaming the peoPle running the expo who make the promises every year there going to have non stop minis and then don't get enough tables.

 

[JB Cases]

Fact is I was there and you choose now to start name calling. You could have came over and told me what you thought of me at anytime. Believe me, you wouldn't have liked the response. But knowing you, you would have had someone like your kid, or wife with you as a human shield.

BTW Friday the second day, there were people walking the exhibit EARLY before 11, before they had the idea of putting the tables up to prevent walkthrough . Just an FYI since you obviously don't know what was going on, as if that is a surprise.

The show had full lockout after 8 ay the VFCC. Closed doors that were locked. Its not about him being responsible for my stuff, if you knew how to read, you would know that.

The dishonest part is the exhibitors parking pass, so pay attention. As I said when the merchandise is cheap, it doesn't much matter how the security is. Vendors with real merechandise walking across a dark unlit parking lot is, as anyone who parked in the back will tell you.

Again, you wait till I am 200 miles away to issue a challenge, when you had 4 days to step up. John, we expect nothing less.

JV

Step up? Step up for what? I told you to stay away from me at the expo and I stayed away from you. You act like I said I was going to hunt you down at the expo and I never said any such thing.

So there was nothing to step up to. And name calling? It's a perfectly apt pool term for how you are acting. Once again I am in Philly for the WHOLE day if YOU want to meet me somewhere and discuss your issues privately.

I was there each day before 10 Joe. People weren't walking the aisles but EVEN if they were then so what? Once again it is YOUR responsibility to secure your stuff.

Let's compare. You chastise the Hopkins for having a year to plan and not meeting your expectations and yet you had the SAME year to figure out how to secure your booth.

So who is the idiot here?

I think it's you. Too cheap and unimaginative to come up with a solution to secure your own merchandise and be responsible for your own things.

How in the world is it "dishonest" to give out an exhibitor parking pass? It's not like you had to PAY for it. Get a clue for once in your life. Were you restricted from parking anywhere? No you weren't. So what's your problem?

When you use words like dishonest and hosed then you imply that you were defrauded. Maybe in nitspeak you feel you were but in the real world that the rest of us live in you were not defrauded in the least.

 

[Bambu]

You could play one pocket on a barbox, but I'm sure you'll agree with me that it's much, much better on a 9-footer. One pocket on a barbox is like 9-ball on a barbox; the game is actually made easier by the short track. What would normally be low-percentage shots on a 9-footer, are actually now high percentage shots on a barbox. The whole ratio of percentages (shot-difficulty-wise) is thrown askew on a barbox -- not a nice thing to do to such a noble game as one pocket.

As for your idea, I think it's great! It would definitely address a lot of concerns, and help smooth things along. There was an action area at this year's SBE, but as you know, it was small in comparison to years past. That area definitely needs some 9-footers for sure.

-Sean

Thanks Sean, I dont play 1 pocket so I really dont know. But I imagine its like any other game, better on a big table. I did enjoy those little diamond tables though, so much closer to the real thing.

 

[malidave]

Generally on Sunday most of the stuff has been cherry picked so you won't see as much. But still there is always a LOT of stuff there even on Sunday.

I hope you liked our cases. We were hidden inside the Fury/Sterling booth and I heard some folks didn't find us until the last day.

You must of been well hidden I missed you and I was there on Thursday.

 

[JB Cases]

You must of been well hidden I missed you and I was there on Thursday.

Yeah I kind of thought that people would at least walk through the Sterling/Fury booth at least once.

Next year I will probably have my own booth. I think it's better and less distracting on several levels.

 

[classiccues]

Step up? Step up for what? I told you to stay away from me at the expo and I stayed away from you. You act like I said I was going to hunt you down at the expo and I never said any such thing.

So there was nothing to step up to. And name calling? It's a perfectly apt pool term for how you are acting. Once again I am in Philly for the WHOLE day if YOU want to meet me somewhere and discuss your issues privately..

Never implied anything. However its obvious since your using the cpu as your outlet you could have bought YOUR issues to me. You told me you'ld let me know your feelings many times in person if you had the chance. You had the chance and STILL waiting till the show was over to do it on the computer.

I was there each day before 10 Joe. People weren't walking the aisles but EVEN if they were then so what? Once again it is YOUR responsibility to secure your stuff. ..

Thats BS John and you know it. Thursday and Friday I had people coming in the booth with non-exhibitor type badges. It wasn't until Saturday did they put the tables across.

Let's compare. You chastise the Hopkins for having a year to plan and not meeting your expectations and yet you had the SAME year to figure out how to secure your booth.

So who is the idiot here? ..

Lets do it slow for you.. The onus is not on me. If I told you you can expect something and you don't plan for the alternative, it's not YOUR fault. It's my fault. Had we been told there would be no positive way to keep the players out of the vendor area because the table area would be left open, we would have planned for it. But its in WRITING that that area would be CLOSED. You follow so far? Thats the issue.

I think it's you. Too cheap and unimaginative to come up with a solution to secure your own merchandise and be responsible for your own things..

See above...

How in the world is it "dishonest" to give out an exhibitor parking pass? It's not like you had to PAY for it. Get a clue for once in your life. Were you restricted from parking anywhere? No you weren't. So what's your problem?

When you use words like dishonest and hosed then you imply that you were defrauded. Maybe in nitspeak you feel you were but in the real world that the rest of us live in you were not defrauded in the least.

You get the clue, you get a parking pass for reserved parking. That means parking so you do not have to bring your stuff from the Lowes to the exhibit area. So you see, it's deceptive at the least.

Now I know this has all been discussed with people that matter. If you want to keep being a male genital tongue masseuse, thats up to you. Not everyone shared your experience, so this thread is about constructive criticizm and fixing problems, not giving Allen a reach around.

JV

 

[TheBook]

.



The lack of seating was very bad.

What would really help and make it a lot better is some grand stands around the areas. This would free up the areas around the tables and give the attendees a chance to watch a variety of matches.


.

 

[deanoc]

john barton
please do not get in trouble with social commentary
it is not necessary to prove you are right

it is true that i enjoy seeing you squawk but i fear that the young and uninitiated
may
make the mistake of thinking that you are too hotheaded to buy a case from you

this would be a shame for as many as i buy,i can't buy enough on my own
so i realize that you need to sell more,or i won't be able to get my new cases

by the way i want 5 new brunswick hustler style

it occurs to me i would already have my cases if you would get off the computer

to you guys who are new to john
don't worry he makes beautiful cases,is honorable and is usually on the right side in his tirades

john seems to have trouble suffering a blowhard

i hate to admit it,but i kinda like him
unless of course i happen to be the ignorant blowhard whom
he is lamblasting



i know you well and

 

[JB Cases]

Never implied anything. However its obvious since your using the cpu as your outlet you could have bought YOUR issues to me. You told me you'ld let me know your feelings many times in person if you had the chance. You had the chance and STILL waiting till the show was over to do it on the computer.

I wouldn't take your time or mine to accost you at the show. I know that it's Mark's booth anyway and you are the lackey. So I wouldn't ever want to do anything to take you away from your lackey duties. I am only criticizing you calling the Hopkins dishonest.

Thats BS John and you know it. Thursday and Friday I had people coming in the booth with non-exhibitor type badges. It wasn't until Saturday did they put the tables across.

No it's BS on your part. There was a barrier set up on Thursday night. And again, the vendors that are experienced locked down their own booths. Sorry that you are so inexperienced and naive as to think that someone else should be responsible for your merchandise at a show like this.

Lets do it slow for you.. The onus is not on me. If I told you you can expect something and you don't plan for the alternative, it's not YOUR fault. It's my fault.

Let's do it a little slower for you then. If you don't have a backup plan then it's your fault. Once again there weer plenty of vendors that locked their booths down and have done so for the entire time they have been exhibiting at the SBE regardless of what area they were in.

You are simply not smart enough or possibly too lazy to figure out how to make your booth secure.

Had we been told there would be no positive way to keep the players out of the vendor area because the table area would be left open, we would have planned for it. But its in WRITING that that area would be CLOSED. You follow so far? Thats the issue.

Then get your money back and never come back. You know it's a new venue, you know that there will be issues. Yet you still enjoyed four days with thousands of buyers walking around. I think I walked by your booth twice and you were busy both times. So get off it already. Allen asked me if we lost anything during the times the booth area was closed. I said no and he said to his knowledge no one else had either. So what is your problem?

You get the clue, you get a parking pass for reserved parking. That means parking so you do not have to bring your stuff from the Lowes to the exhibit area. So you see, it's deceptive at the least.

Who told you that? Did someone tell you that you would have reserved parking close to the building????? No one said that to us. And furthermore I was never more than two spaces away from the door. Are you telling me you are too stupid to find a good parking space as well?

Now I know this has all been discussed with people that matter. If you want to keep being a male genital tongue masseuse, thats up to you. Not everyone shared your experience, so this thread is about constructive criticizm and fixing problems, not giving Allen a reach around.

JV

Really, so how constructive is it to call the Hopkins dishonest?

If I were Allen I'd refuse to sell you a booth. See how you like not having access to all those buyers for four days. You are such a nit it's unreal. For a lackey you sure have a big mouth. You say you are in the construction business and you can't figure out how to build a secure booth?

I talked to Allen and Allen Jr. and gave them my opinions and suggestions. I didn't wait to flame them on the forum as you apparently were dying to do.

Every other vendor who brought high-end merchandise was able to secure it in their booth but only you could not figure it out. Maybe the problem is you.