SBE 2012 Constructive Criticism

Seems to me Bob and Eydie Romano tried a similar format at the Windy City Open several years ago. Kind of remember it as being a disaster financially for the cuemakers. Too few walk in customers. Too many players without the money necessary to support the cue show. Nice idea but the location isn't the problem or the solution. Nothing a few years of familiarity won't solve.

Lyn

Hi,

And ,maybe a different venue with more pissers and parking. Pretty important stuff there.

It seems to me unless something is done for next year this could be a real problem. I love the SBE and would hate to see it fall down.

The Romanos also had to compete with Allen's premiere show. If Allen's show was in a different local where people could piss without a line a park their cars I think it would be roses.

The times they are a changing.

Rick
 
Hi,

And ,maybe a different venue with more pissers and parking. Pretty important stuff there.

It seems to me unless something is done for next year this could be a real problem. I love the SBE and would hate to see it fall down.

The Romanos also had to compete with Allen's premiere show. If Allen's show was in a different local where people could piss without a line a park their cars I think it would be roses.

The times they are a changing.

Rick

Don't sweat it. The SBE is not going to fail. Too many people had a good time and made money to not be there.
 
Hi,

And ,maybe a different venue with more pissers and parking. Pretty important stuff there.

It seems to me unless something is done for next year this could be a real problem. I love the SBE and would hate to see it fall down.

The Romanos also had to compete with Allen's premiere show. If Allen's show was in a different local where people could piss without a line a park their cars I think it would be roses.

The times they are a changing.

Rick

Rick,

I'm not saying life was great there. Stood in line for food everytime. Not just once in a while. Also stood in line for the bathroom everytime. Got kind of tiring after a while. My best guess is Allen's group literally had no choice in venues. At least within the Philadelphia corridor. This one wasn't great but not so bad I wouldn't go back next year. One guy told me my view was colored because I did very well. Regardless of my finishing positions I still had to endure what we are all talking about.

Some people complained to no end about the Riviera. One by one, all the sanctioning bodies have moved their events to different venues. The APA is the only one left at the Riv after this year. The ACS moved to the Tropicana. Players complained. VNEA and TAP moved to Bally's. Players complained. The BCAPL and USAPL are moving to the Rio next year. Think players will stilll complain. Perhaps that is what players do best!

Lyn
 
Don't sweat it. The SBE is not going to fail. Too many people had a good time and made money to not be there.

John,

Are you going to be in Vegas in May? With the Fury guys? Looking for a "Butterfly" 3/6 or 3/7. Thanks.

Incidentally, I agree the SBE will not fail. The event is too old and well established. For all its faults, the SBE is still the best thing happening on the East Coast!

Lyn
 
Food Trucks

Maybe Allen should contact the Food Network and have them use his venue for one of the Food Truck Shows.

Anyway, this venue and any pool venue, should contact the Food trucks in the local area and give them a heads up, or even invite someone to be there.
Food trucks have come so far it's unreal.

Anyway just my 2 cents,
mrs.g
 
Mindset ove matter..

Lyn:

Absolutely! I think there was a lot of "disjointedness" around the expo, a lot of due to mindset (e.g. the 3-cushion event not having name placards by the tables so that people can identify the players by more than just "recognition"). For the tournament director to give us the funny look as he did when you recommended the name placards, shows a mindset issue -- his seeming impression that one should just "know" the players by sight (i.e. recognition) shows a closed mindset issue. It's a shame that this mindset exists, because it's this very mindset that is a significant obstacle to a sport / discipline gaining new fans. How is 3-cushion going to get new fans -- which, correct me if I'm wrong, is the reason why Allen is having this event at SBE in the first place -- if the mindset of the people working the event isn't conducive to attracting new fans?

But as rayshooter says, there was also a lot of disjointedness due to more than just mindset, but rather oversight.

The 3-cushion board was this little tiny thing mounted on a beam just behind the 14.1 booth, and if you got more than two people looking at it, the aisle was blocked. This was obviously not thought out -- an impromptu / ad-hoc thing.

I think his idea of a centralized scoring board for all events is a great idea!

Another problem I think was pervasive at the expo, was COMMUNICATION amongst the security staff. For instance, as you know, I played in the Open 10-ball event. After I lost my final match on the B side, I wanted to watch the players that were still in it. The "Pro" badge for this event is an automatic VIP entry in it. That goes without saying, and has been historically true for as long as Allen have been having the Open 10-ball event. So I'm able to just show my Pro badge, and allowed into either the VIP or bleacher side of the arena. I spend the rest of my time at the expo manning the 14.1 Challenge booth, enjoying the expo itself, and occasionally walking into the Pro arena to catch a match here and there.

But then comes the quarter- and semi-finals, and there's new people manning the security entry point into the Pro arena. I wanted to watch the match between Stevie Moore and Darren Appleton, and I show my Pro badge. I'm immediately turned away, saying that I have to purchase a pass specifically for the Open 10-ball event! I couldn't believe my ears. I looked at them, and reinforced the fact that I *played* in this event. They ask me, "oh you played in an event?" I said no, I played in *THIS* event, pointing to the Pro arena itself and then to my badge. They discuss amongst themselves, and then say, "ok, but you must go over to the bleacher side of the arena." I'm a bit confused at this sudden change of rules (obviously because these people are new and don't know what they're doing), but I comply, not wanting to make a scene. I go to the bleachers side, and when I look over at the VIP tables on the other side of the arena, there's like only 10 or 15 people in the whole VIP area! It looked a ghost town over there, but yet the bleachers side was packed, almost standing-room-only. I couldn't for the life of me understand why a Pro that played in the event, was suddenly not allowed over to the VIP side of the arena.

It's roughly analogous to playing a part in a Broadway show, and after you finish your part in the play, you leave the stage. Afterwards, you go to the seating area in the theatre, because you want to watch your fellow actors in the play, but are told that you can't, and have to go back out to the ticket booth to purchase a ticket to the event -- even though you were an actor in the play itself!

This is obviously a communications issue, and looking back with a more lucid mind (rather than an emotional one -- I was *really* mad at the time), I can see that it was just one of those many little things due to Allen's crew having to focus on more serious things, like the new venue itself, and other things falling by the wayside.

(Allen or Allen Jr.: if you're reading this, the communications between the security personnel and the show staff needs a little work. The idea of not allowing [or of placing significant restrictions upon] an Open/Pro player to watch his/her own event, is a HUGE oversight.)

But again, I understand the huge logistical nightmare of moving an event of this magnitude to new facilities (I worked behind the scenes of some well-known computer trade shows at the Jacob Javitts Center in NYC, so I truly "get it"). And I also believe that Allen & crew will take the feedback from this and other issues, and address them. It's all part of the growing pains.

-Sean

Sean that was a good post and definitely some considerations to be made about approaching briefing all security staff before an event to address situations like yours moving forward.

I did want to add that I'm sure the 3cushion personnel working the event didn't intend any offense or intentional closed-mindedness in their response to you, as much as it was probably just that... their initial response. For us it makes sense because we are not of that world and aren't as invested in the players and their standings nationally and worldwide. I think I'd respond somewhat similarly if someone asked me who Shane was lol.

That being said, some name placards on the scoring table would've been great. Personally, I would've had a short notebook put together with a bio card for each of the 11 competitors on the event information table. The bio card would include a picture, brief bio and list of major accomplishments for each player. This would allow passerby's and layman's of the sport to peruse and learn about each competitor at their discretion while being able to enjoy the competition itself.

As for the competition it was quite awesome. The finals saw the high run of the tournament by the eventual champion Pedro Buena who defended his title against Miguel Torres.

In any case this is just one of many ideas and approaches that can be made in order to ensure that each possible level of precaution and planning that can be made, will be made and thus the end result is a more complete and fulfilling experience for the audiences. Happy audiences are more likely to buy and support the vendors that make up the industry.

As for the FOOD TRUCKS idea, I had the same idea at the venue. It makes all the sense in the world to have them come to your location, with their supplies and specialty made foods. I'm sure Allen could've secured a deal to procure a percentage of their profits in exchange for access to sell in the venue.

All the best.

Sincerely,

Raymond Linares
 
As for the FOOD TRUCKS idea, I had the same idea at the venue. It makes all the sense in the world to have them come to your location, with their supplies and specialty made foods. I'm sure Allen could've secured a deal to procure a percentage of their profits in exchange for access to sell in the venue.

I would be surprised if the Venue didn't have it in their contract that no outside food vendors are allowed on the premises. That would be taking more money out of their pocket.
 
Sean that was a good post and definitely some considerations to be made about approaching briefing all security staff before an event to address situations like yours moving forward.

I did want to add that I'm sure the 3cushion personnel working the event didn't intend any offense or intentional closed-mindedness in their response to you, as much as it was probably just that... their initial response. For us it makes sense because we are not of that world and aren't as invested in the players and their standings nationally and worldwide. I think I'd respond somewhat similarly if someone asked me who Shane was lol.

That being said, some name placards on the scoring table would've been great. Personally, I would've had a short notebook put together with a bio card for each of the 11 competitors on the event information table. The bio card would include a picture, brief bio and list of major accomplishments for each player. This would allow passerby's and layman's of the sport to peruse and learn about each competitor at their discretion while being able to enjoy the competition itself.

As for the competition it was quite awesome. The finals saw the high run of the tournament by the eventual champion Pedro Buena who defended his title against Miguel Torres.

In any case this is just one of many ideas and approaches that can be made in order to ensure that each possible level of precaution and planning that can be made, will be made and thus the end result is a more complete and fulfilling experience for the audiences. Happy audiences are more likely to buy and support the vendors that make up the industry.

As for the FOOD TRUCKS idea, I had the same idea at the venue. It makes all the sense in the world to have them come to your location, with their supplies and specialty made foods. I'm sure Allen could've secured a deal to procure a percentage of their profits in exchange for access to sell in the venue.

All the best.

Sincerely,

Raymond Linares



This is a great idea, thanks - I will pass it along to the director of that event. And just so everyone knows for future reference, there was a page devoted to the 3-Cushion event which identified players and brief titles, as well as a 2-page spread in the book devoted to the WPA Artistic event, with photos and brief bios of each player. Program books are distributed free at our event, and are printed in full color - magazine quality. If you would like a PDF sample of the book, email me at info@superbilliardsexpo.com and I'll send one to you. I will also make a link available on our website sometime soon.

Thanks again for the feedback! The food trucks idea is good too, and is something we've already been discussing for next year. Unfortunately, the venue has complete control over concessions. We tried to warn them that they would be busy and to prepare for it, but I don't think they expected the influx of business.
 
florida

maybe allen will consider going to florida,orange county convention center,orlando.this is where the ipt held its tournamant...
 
maybe allen will consider going to florida,orange county convention center,orlando.this is where the ipt held its tournamant...

I would guess, part of the reason the SBE is located in the Philly area is due to population density. The area between Boston and DC is the most densely populated area of the country by a long shot. Roughly 20% of the country lives here. Within a 100 mile radius of Philly (driving distance) is prolly about 35-40mm people, alone.


Eric >dense
 
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agree

I would guess, part of the reason the SBE is located in the Philly area is due to population density. The area between Boston and DC is the most densely populated area of the country by a long shot. Roughly 20% of the country lives here. Within a 100 mile radius of Philly (driving distance) is prolly about 35-40mm people, alone.


Eric >dense

I agree with you.To move it from the east coast would be a kiss of death.IF it had to be moved Chicago would be the only alternative.In my opinion.
 
Handicap

Thanks everyone for being a fan and supporter of the show!

We are grateful for all of your support over the years, and appreciate your feedback on the event. Since we had no other choice but to find a new venue for this year, I was expecting there to be lots of criticism regardless of what we did.

I will try and address some issues, as well as engage in any discussions about ideas for the upcoming year(s). There have been too many things pointed out in this thread for me to try and cut-and-paste or quote them all, so instead I will just discuss some things.

Before I go any further, I want to remind people that the VFCC (Valley Forge Convention Center - our previous venue) has closed down and been renovated into a casino. We were told after the 2011 Expo, and have no option of returning there. Many people have said we should move back, and I just want people to know that we can't.

Unfortunately, the new venue does not have the attached restaurants and hotels that we previously enjoyed. Finding a place that does is not as easy as it may seem. There are some, but there are a variety of other factors that make them less than ideal, such as (but not limited to): easy access to required amount of uninterrupted floorspace, proximity to major metropolitan areas, and associated costs for vendors possibly incurred during set-up.

Yes, we know the concrete floors are not ideal. Although the VFCC basically had concrete floors covered with a thin layer of tile, aesthetically this makes a big difference. Again, finding a venue this big with anything different is not easy.

The vaulted ceilings and industrial warehouse look are also fairly common in large tradeshow type environments. We were lucky to have a place like the VFCC that provided otherwise.

We wanted to keep the show close to its previous home, as people have gotten used to traveling to this region over the years, and it is a great location for ease of access to thousands of avid players in a 3 hr drive radius. Furthermore, with the closing of the VFCC, it seems as though the new venue (The Greater Philadelphia Expo Center - GPEC) is poised to gain lots of new trade show business, and will hopefully take steps to improve, accomodate, and cater to these various events. Afterall, we are merely one weekend of the year to them - they need to cater to events all year.

Yes, there is another room to expand into - Hall C. This room is the same size (or close to) Hall B - from what I've been told. I have only stepped foot in that room once, so I'm going off a brief memory and what I've been told here.

The various entrances was an issue, and one we thought we had prepared for. It become glaringly obvious that our plan would not work, and we took steps throughout the weekend to adjust. We already have some different and better plans for next year.

Lighting was an issue. When we had visited the room, the lighting seemed adequate. Once tables were installed and actually being used, it was revealed to be inadequate. We've been told the GPEC already has plans to install more lighting and we will stay on top of this issue.

The bathroom situation was a mess too. Our event is atypical from most trade show events. Whereas most events have attendees that come in, walk around for a while, and leave - we have quite the opposite. Many of our visitors may come in at noon and stay until well past midnite. We've been discussing this and have some things to look into. I've been out to Vegas for the WSOP events and have seen what they do to accomodate, and will look into the same option. If you've never been - they have some sort of mobile bathroom facility on site. It's not just "port-a-pottys", but rather some type of mobile home type unit that is set up just outside. Temperature controlled, well-lit, and clean. Hopefully this is something we can get.

The TAP League is a great part of the event, having the Rally in the Valley at the Super Billiards Expo is something we look forward to. They do not "take" away tables from anyone. Finding space for all the tables required for their event as well as our events, plus practice tables and mini-tourney tables is challenging. And even once we have the space, the mere act of getting the tables is a challenge. Diamond's crew does an amazing job and we are lucky to have them. However, the supply logistics of getting 200+ tables for a week pose a problem - they just weren't available. We had every possible table that Diamond could supply us with for the week. Next year, we have been promised that we can get more.

The vendor parking area was something we had planned, but it fell through last minute. We were not trying to mislead or lie to anyone. We had made the passes and designated that the area to the left of the main entrance (when facing Hall A) would be for vendors only. We had someone scheduled to watch the lot from 7am-8pm each day, but this person fell ill at the last minute, and unfortunately we did not have time to find a replacement. Moving to the new venue posed more issues than we had anticipated, and we ended up being slightly short staffed for the event.

This goes for the overnight/lock-up concern as well. Our original intent was to lock down Hall A, as promised. However, it became very obvious that we could not make people walk around the building after leaving the Pro Arena to get back to Hall B. Furthermore, making all the players gathered in the practice areas leave would not have went over very well either. So, we came up with a new plan and did our best to implement it. Each aisle leaving the practice table area was blocked, and a guard was stationed at each area. The other side/access to this area was watched as well. As far as I know, not a single item was stolen, missing, or damaged overnight under our watch. And I'm sure if it was I would have heard - rightfully so. Indeed, this was not what we advertised would happen - but we did our best to find the fine line that would keep everyone happy, or close to it. Our goal is to provide a lucrative environment for vendors to showcase their products as well as a fun and exciting environment for players. Keeping players happy and on-site is key to keeping vendors happy and busy.

All that said, we are working on some better plans for traffic flow and overnight security for next year.

OK, I'll write some more later - I'm getting kinda tired. Feel free to ask questions and/or comment about the show. Please rest assured that we will do our best to identify our weak spots and work hard to improve to keep the SBX a fun and successful weekend for all. Moving to a new venue was a challenge, as many issues do not become apparent until you actually set-up and run the show. You don't get a practice run or a dress rehearsal. You look at some space, map out some details, try to speculate what people will do, and devise a plan. Once you actually set-up and set things in motion, certain issues become obvious and need to be handled as you go, while the show is underway - improving conditions day by day or hour by hour.

We are lucky to have a great staff composed of family and friends - many of which have been returning every year for over 15 years - some every year since year one. I am thankful knowing that everyone worked very hard to make sure things went as smoothly as possible. All in all, I think things went very well for this pivotal year, and I think that the future can bring about some great things for the show. Yes, there were some speed bumps along the road this year, as we had expected - but they were quickly dealt with when possible. And if not - then they've been discovered now for future plans.

Thanks again everyone, glad you enjoyed the show!

Hello Allen, I spoke with you on the ph. abt. a friend of mine who has a severe walking problem.When he went to Derby City he was able to rent one of those motorized scooters and it was a life saver for him.I checked with the convention center if they had that available and they told me the Vender ( you and your dad ) can bring them in and rent them, many events do that.Since our friend could not attend we all stayed behind.I hope for his and others sake it may be something you add next year.We all look forward to attending the SBE every year.Thank you in advance.
 
allen_jr...I have seen those portable bathrooms. They had one at a Pilot truckstop in Burns Harbor IN for several months last year, while they were doing a remodel. Pilot Corporate would likely have info on where to find them, and how much they cost to rent.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

The bathroom situation was a mess too. Our event is atypical from most trade show events. Whereas most events have attendees that come in, walk around for a while, and leave - we have quite the opposite. Many of our visitors may come in at noon and stay until well past midnite. We've been discussing this and have some things to look into. I've been out to Vegas for the WSOP events and have seen what they do to accomodate, and will look into the same option. If you've never been - they have some sort of mobile bathroom facility on site. It's not just "port-a-pottys", but rather some type of mobile home type unit that is set up just outside. Temperature controlled, well-lit, and clean. Hopefully this is something we can get!
 
franko...This is a great idea, especially since the venue is all on one floor. Allen could take 'reservations', with a deposit, so they would know beforehand how many they needed to have at the event. :thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Hello Allen, I spoke with you on the ph. abt. a friend of mine who has a severe walking problem.When he went to Derby City he was able to rent one of those motorized scooters and it was a life saver for him.I checked with the convention center if they had that available and they told me the Vender ( you and your dad ) can bring them in and rent them, many events do that.Since our friend could not attend we all stayed behind.I hope for his and others sake it may be something you add next year.We all look forward to attending the SBE every year.Thank you in advance.
 
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