Scott Frost vs Ronnie Allen in his prime

[mr3cushion]

Yes, Mr3C is right...i havent posted much...like i said...but i have been on this forum for over 10 yrs reading atleast a few times a week,,,,because i do like pool and i am good friends with alot of great pool players...including Scott....

But please believe me....i dont Know SJD..RA...Fast Lenny...Artie ..or even Mr3C.. I moved fromAZ here to cali over 15 yrs ago...but i stayed friends with Scott. All i wanted to do was ask Scott about His Opinion..and he Told me To Post our Texts for HIM!!!

I apologize, if I offended YOU! But, I've been friends with Artie and Billy I and have made much money with both over the years. It's hard believing, with the relationship that Billy and Artie have had over the past 50 years, that HE would even come close to saying those things to Scott! Unless, He had an ulterior motive!

But, like I said, when I speak to Billy, I'll verify those comments to be true or false!

 

[Black-Balled]

NONE of those old farts ever beat me.

 

[KRJ]

One thing about Scott's opinion is he cannot speak (firsthand) about Artie or RA's game when they were in their prime years. Likewise, I don't think SJD ever saw Artie hit a ball (anywhere near his prime). So these opinions don't mean a whole lot unless one is familiar with both of their games in their prime.

Exactly. And to suggest Scott knows Artie was not a good gambler is kinda silly. I mean, it's one thing to suggest he was not a top player, but to speak of gambling, Artie just flat out refused to lose.

So, if he was not a TOP player, fine by me, but when there was money on the line, he was winning most of the time. So, maybe he just got lucky, who knows, but it has to suck to lose to a lesser player, time and time again.

I never saw SJD play, so I can't compare the two. Sounds like he was legit and could play though. I've seen Scott play, and LOVE his game. I grew up as a teenager watching Artie apply his trade. Artie and Scott are two completely different players from two different era's. Defense (Artie) vs. Offense (Scott).

Artie reminds me of Ike Runnels (Chicago guy and Pro level player), just hides you every chance he gets while pushing his balls to his hole, meanwhile there is nothing to shoot for multiple turns at the table, gets mere mortals frustrated as hell

Yep, played Ike in a Red Shoes tourney. Trust me, I was the underdog and was just hoping to not embarrass myself. Got out to a 6-0 lead in our first game and never had a shot again, and I wound up losing 8-4 after I had to take 2 intentional fouls just to survive It was brutal and amazing at the same time !!

 

[mr3cushion]

One thing about Scott's opinion is he cannot speak (firsthand) about Artie or RA's game when they were in their prime years. Likewise, I don't think SJD ever saw Artie hit a ball (anywhere near his prime). So these opinions don't mean a whole lot unless one is familiar with both of their games in their prime.

I for one are in that position, having seen Artie, RA and Bugs play in their prime! I DON"T speak from, 'second hand' or 'hearsay' stories about players!

Hell even Lenny can't speak first hand in regard to SJD in his, (so called) prime!

There are too numerous older TOP players to mention that knew and know of Artie's ability and knowledge about the game of one pocket! Just like in all the aspects of His life, He never left much to chance! He always found the BEST way to solve problems, on and off the green felt!

 

[KRJ]

I for one are in that position, having seen Artie, RA and Bugs play in their prime! I DON"T speak from, 'second hand' or 'hearsay' stories about players!

Hell even Lenny can't speak first hand in regard to SJD in his, (so called) prime!

There are too numerous older TOP players to mention that knew and know of Artie's ability and knowledge about the game of one pocket! Just like in all the aspects of His life, He never left much to chance! He always found the BEST way to solve problems, on and off the green felt!

It's one thing to bust all the guys in Chicago, that takes some skills, but it's quite an amazing feat to put the "hurt" on the Casino industry in Vegas He was "smartie artie" for a reason, and the casinos don't like smart guys :thumbup:

 

[Hungarian]

If it could in fact be "verified" by Mr. Frost would you then publicly apologize to San Jose Dick, you know kind of bury the hatchet and mend the fences so to speak?

I saw it, it's meaningless! Without verification! From a poster that was last here in 2012! Where did the SJD 'minions' dig that guy up!

When I speak to Billy I in Chicago next week, I'll verify his comments to Scott!

 

[mr3cushion]

If it could in fact be "verified" by Mr. Frost would you then publicly apologize to San Jose Dick, you know kind of bury the hatchet and mend the fences so to speak?

Not while I'm still breathing!

 

[Fast Lenny]

YOU certainly wouldn't know any TOP road players from the 60's and 70's, who prowled the countryside looking for, 'second string' go offs! It's ALL about making a living on the road, the strong survive and the weak get sheared!

Across the country! He never went east of Chicago and that was for a hot NY
minute!

I knew them both, Country VERY well, Mickey was a GREAT talented player, much knowledge! Country Steered me and Paul Jones on our first road trip East, in 1968.

You dodge the question. Who are these many top players?

 

[Fast Lenny]

I for one are in that position, having seen Artie, RA and Bugs play in their prime! I DON"T speak from, 'second hand' or 'hearsay' stories about players!

Hell even Lenny can't speak first hand in regard to SJD in his, (so called) prime!

There are too numerous older TOP players to mention that knew and know of Artie's ability and knowledge about the game of one pocket! Just like in all the aspects of His life, He never left much to chance! He always found the BEST way to solve problems, on and off the green felt!

You don't speak from second hand, hearsay or first hand knowledge when it comes to SJD, you speak out of your @$$!
The point is I don't say Scott Frost would give Artie 9/7 or heist Ronnie because I never saw either play in their prime, you never saw SJD but he was a top player even if you want to put the guy down. There are old players from the west coast who could attest to SJDs abilities too but I am sure not many get on this forum.

 

[mr3cushion]

You don't speak from second hand, hearsay or first hand knowledge when it comes to SJD, you speak out of your @$$!
The point is I don't say Scott Frost would give Artie 9/7 or heist Ronnie because I never saw either play in their prime, you never saw SJD but he was a top player even if you want to put the guy down. There are old players from the west coast who could attest to SJDs abilities too but I am sure not many get on this forum.

How do YOU know I haven't seen him play? You have NO idea what I know or seen, because you are from a completely different era!

So, thru Scott, via Billy I, SJD could beat Artie and Artie was not a TOP player! This is according to Scott's Facebook message with Red! a lot of links there were things may have gotten distorted a bit!

Like I said, I'll verify those comments of Scott's with Billy, next week in Chicago!

And, if Artie beat Bugs and Billy EVEN playing 1 hole in the same night, that means according to Scott's message to Red, SJD could beat Bugs and Billy EVEN! In your dreams Pedro! There's ONLY 1 game he could have won at playing them would be, the world famous game of, 'Golf' on a snooker table!

Lenny, you have your opinion based on 'stories,' mine is based on, 'fact' from watching and betting on games involving the TOP 2 out of 3 players of the 60's - early 80's and MANY other TOP players of that time!

Lenny, stick to what you do BEST, live stream and DVD's, BTW, which you do VERY well!

P.S. By your own admission, sounds like SJD never went East of Chicago, but, ONLY for a second! Since just West coast players knew of his game!

P.P.S. I am and have NEVER been a 'stool pigeon' I wouldn't pull the covers off ANY road men/hustlers out there trying to make a living! But, YOU wouldn't know that, YOU"RE not 'Old School!'

 

[CJ Wiley]

Does anyone know if Allen ever played Artie, Bugs, or Ronnie for any significant $$$

One thing about Scott's opinion is he cannot speak (firsthand) about Artie or RA's game when they were in their prime years. Likewise, I don't think SJD ever saw Artie hit a ball (anywhere near his prime). So these opinions don't mean a whole lot unless one is familiar with both of their games in their prime.

I saw Bugs play Grady several times in Detroit and was very impressed. Bugs was a cool guy too, of course he had a "mixture" that put him into an incredible zone. I still to this day haven't seen anyone that could bank the "straight backs" and hide the cue ball behind balls on the end rail as well as him. His banking skills were super-natural.

Many of the top road players that I knew considered Allen Hopkins to be one of the all-time great one-pocket players. Does anyone know if Allen ever played Artie, Bugs, or Ronnie for any significant money?

 

[mr3cushion]

I saw Bugs play Grady several times in Detroit and was very impressed. Bugs was a cool guy too, of course he had a "mixture" that put him into an incredible zone. I still to this day haven't seen anyone that could bank the "straight backs" and hide the cue ball behind balls on the end rail as well as him. His banking skills were super-natural.

Many of the top road players that I knew considered Allen Hopkins to be one of the all-time great one-pocket players. Does anyone know if Allen ever played Artie, Bugs, or Ronnie for any significant money?

CJ; this is from an earlier post of mine RE;

BTW, just for the REAL record, Artie asked Allen to play EVEN when He was in Chicago at Freddy's Northshore Club, He respectfully declined!


BTW, the other thread about, 'Natural Talent,' Bugs had the MOST I've ever seen for a player that NEVER played with HIS OWN cue! Always off the rack, or borrowed!

 

[jay helfert]

There's a big difference playing a sucker and running out from every where than playing another top player and playing tight knowing if you miss it might be over. I've seen many times two top players playing one pocket and one of them plays good and the other one looks like he can't spell one pocket. happens all the time.

Pay attention guys, Cotton speaks the truth. I saw Ronnie make some good players look awfully weak. It's hard for me to compare Ronnie and Artie because I didn't see Artie at his peak. I did see him play John Henderson a few years back. I'm not even sure who won. I actually played Artie once. He and Billy woofed at me to play and I told them we could play Bank Pool and bet what they want. Billy asked if they could bet 500 a game and I said sure. I played Artie one game and they quit (he lost), although the bet got lowered substantially at kick-off (not by me either). Then Billy tried me one game also, and I came out two games winner. It was a nice long session, maybe 30 minutes total. :thumbup:

P.S. I knew Country from New York way back in the 60's when I was a kid. He was legendary already. I knew about Port Chester Mickey and Boston Joey but never got to see either of them play. I did see Jerry Brock in his prime and he was a top flight hustler, in the same category as Swanee. They would fly Jerry in to rob someone, usually a good player. They did the same thing with Swanee. Most people don't know that playing 9-Ball for big money ($1,000 a game and up) Swanee may have been the best of them all. Even Cornbread passed on his action in Detroit. Richie Florence beat Swanee in L.A. at Tropicana Bowl, but it was before Swanee reached his peak. Like Johnny Archer and Earl, Swanee hated to play One Pocket. He was a damn good Eight Ball player though and beat all the Mexicans who tried him at that game.

Meanwhile Keith and Swanee went round and round with no clear winner. They were battling for West Coast supremacy (although Dan Louie would play either one in Seattle). I'm sure all their sessions made them both better players. After playing each other, no one else seemed so tough. Those two became fast friends, drinking buddies and more. Ha Ha

 

[mr3cushion]

Pay attention guys, Cotton speaks the truth. I saw Ronnie make some good players look awfully weak. It's hard for me to compare Ronnie and Artie because I didn't see Artie at his peak. I did see play John Henderson a few years back. I'm not even sure who won. I actually played Artie once. He and Billy woofed at me to play and I told them we could play Bank Pool and bet what they want. Billy asked if they could bet 500 a game and I said yes. I played Artie one game and they quit (he lost), although the bet got lowered substantially at kick-off (not by me either). Then Billy tried me one game also, and I came out two games winner. It was a nice long session, maybe 30 minutes total. :thumbup:

I heard the story from Artie. Jay, that might be the 2nd game of Banks Artie EVER played in His life!

Country was 'Triple Smart' He had me come East to play any 3C players, including 'Shorty!' BTW, I didn't beat Shorty at Mc Girrs, we broke even!


The VERY first piece of advise He gave was, "Billy, out here East, make sure you win the first game, or the BEST you can do, is break even!"

 

[Fast Lenny]

How do YOU know I haven't seen him play? You have NO idea what I know or seen, because you are from a completely different era!

So, thru Scott, via Billy I, SJD could beat Artie and Artie was not a TOP player! This is according to Scott's Facebook message with Red! a lot of links there were things may have gotten distorted a bit!

Like I said, I'll verify those comments of Scott's with Billy, next week in Chicago!

And, if Artie beat Bugs and Billy EVEN playing 1 hole in the same night, that means according to Scott's message to Red, SJD could beat Bugs and Billy EVEN! In your dreams Pedro! There's ONLY 1 game he could have won at playing them would be, the world famous game of, 'Golf' on a snooker table!

Lenny, you have your opinion based on 'stories,' mine is based on, 'fact' from watching and betting on games involving the TOP 2 out of 3 players of the 60's - early 80's and MANY other TOP players of that time!

Lenny, stick to what you do BEST, live stream and DVD's, BTW, which you do VERY well!

P.S. By your own admission, sounds like SJD never went East of Chicago, but, ONLY for a second! Since just West coast players knew of his game!

P.P.S. I am and have NEVER been a 'stool pigeon' I wouldn't pull the covers off ANY road men/hustlers out there trying to make a living! But, YOU wouldn't know that, YOU"RE not 'Old School!'

If you saw SJD play in his prime you might have more respect. Your postings get more ridiculous saying how do I know whether you saw him or not, it is obvious you did not because you would just say so. The point is you are on here talking about how Mr. X and Mr. Y will give Mr. Z this and that when you only really saw X play regularly, Y play once or twice and Z not play at all! I have not done this because if so my post would have no credibility like yours, now your saying he could have only won at golf, lmao.

SJD probably didn't go to Chicago or NY all that much, not worthwhile money wise when you gotta beat the best guy in a tough game to win something. As far as I know he ran around in the south where people really gamble which is still true today. You never saw SJD play, maybe he could have beat Artie and maybe he couldn't have. You don't see me saying SJD would destroy Artie and Bugs because I never saw them play just as you never saw Dick play.

 

[jay helfert]

I heard the story from Artie. Jay, that might be the 2nd game of Banks Artie EVER played in His life!

Country was 'Triple Smart' He had me come East to play any 3C players, including 'Shorty!' BTW, I didn't beat Shorty at Mc Girrs, we broke even!


The VERY first piece of advise He gave was, "Billy, out here East, make sure you win the first game, or the BEST you can do, is break even!"

So true! In New York I learned not to play Banks with any black guys and not to play Straight Pool with old men.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Pay attention guys, Cotton speaks the truth. I saw Ronnie make some good players look awfully weak. It's hard for me to compare Ronnie and Artie because I didn't see Artie at his peak. I did see him play John Henderson a few years back. I'm not even sure who won. I actually played Artie once. He and Billy woofed at me to play and I told them we could play Bank Pool and bet what they want. Billy asked if they could bet 500 a game and I said sure. I played Artie one game and they quit (he lost), although the bet got lowered substantially at kick-off (not by me either). Then Billy tried me one game also, and I came out two games winner. It was a nice long session, maybe 30 minutes total. :thumbup:

P.S. I knew Country from New York way back in the 60's when I was a kid. He was legendary already. I knew about Port Chester Mickey and Boston Joey but never got to see either of them play. I did see Jerry Brock in his prime and he was a top flight hustler, in the same category as Swanee. They would fly Jerry in to rob someone, usually a good player. They did the same thing with Swanee. Most people don't know that playing 9-Ball for big money ($1,000 a game and up) Swanee may have been the best of them all. Even Cornbread passed on his action in Detroit. Richie Florence beat Swanee in L.A. at Tropicana Bowl, but it was before Swanee reached his peak. Like Johnny Archer and Earl, Swanee hated to play One Pocket. He was a damn good Eight Ball player though and beat all the Mexicans who tried him at that game.

Meanwhile Keith and Swanee went round and round with no clear winner. They were battling for West Coast supremacy (although Dan Louie would play either one in Seattle). I'm sure all their sessions made them both better players. After playing each other, no one else seemed so tough. Those two became fast friends, drinking buddies and more. Ha Ha

Its not fair Jay, you know all of the players but I am sure majority of the players on the west coast did not know of Country or Mickey or Brock. The same could be said about some of the west coast guys if they ventured east unless they were a real big name like Ronnie. Do you have any stories about guys who ventured west to the east for action or vice versa perhaps sneaking up on someone?

 

[mr3cushion]

If you saw SJD play in his prime you might have more respect. Your postings get more ridiculous saying how do I know whether you saw him or not, it is obvious you did not because you would just say so. The point is you are on here talking about how Mr. X and Mr. Y will give Mr. Z this and that when you only really saw X play regularly, Y play once or twice and Z not play at all! I have not done this because if so my post would have no credibility like yours, now your saying he could have only won at golf, lmao.

SJD probably didn't go to Chicago or NY all that much, not worthwhile money wise when you gotta beat the best guy in a tough game to win something. As far as I know he ran around in the south where people really gamble which is still true today. You never saw SJD play, maybe he could have beat Artie and maybe he couldn't have. You don't see me saying SJD would destroy Artie and Bugs because I never saw them play just as you never saw Dick play.

Your info is still, 'second hand,' whether it be from SJD himself or otherwise! MINE is NOT!

Lets get back to that Scott comment, via Billy! That's what your Bud, SJD is clinging onto!

 

[Fast Lenny]

Your info is still, 'second hand,' whether it be from SJD himself or otherwise! MINE is NOT!

Lets get back to that Scott comment, via Billy! That's what your Bud, SJD is clinging onto!

The point is Bill for the 50th time, you are putting down SJDs game and never saw the guy play in his prime. It would be like him knocking your 3 cushion game, makes no sense.

 

[jay helfert]

Its not fair Jay, you know all of the players but I am sure majority of the players on the west coast did not know of Country or Mickey or Brock. The same could be said about some of the west coast guys if they ventured east unless they were a real big name like Ronnie. Do you have any stories about guys who ventured west to the east for action or vice versa perhaps sneaking up on someone?

Cole was the probably the most traveled after Ronnie. Cole would hop a plane and fly to Miami or Atlanta when he was 18! He wasn't afraid to play anyone and it took a great player to beat him even then. Swanee didn't like to travel that much but he would go where the money was. He was much sneakier and not a lot of people knew him, but he did get in some very big games back East (of course some backer flew him in to play someone). After Swanee made a big score and came home with like 20 or 30 large he liked to lay out on the beach, smoke weed and eat a good bar-b-que. He was a great guy, generous with all his friends.

Keith of course got steered all over the country as well, but everyone knew all about him. He was a legend from his days as a teen in Bellflower at the original Billiard Palace. He played against the best hustlers in the country when he was 15 and 16 and beat most of them. It took a Jimmy Reid caliber player to beat Keith even then. I did see Denny (Searcy) get the better of Keith, but nobody could beat Denny at that time.