Scott Frost vs Ronnie Allen in his prime

[jay helfert]

San Jose Dick was very well known on the West Coast, and considered one of the top One Pocket players out here. I would rate him right there with Little Al, who Ronnie used to give 10-8 too (Al could win at the game sometimes). I think Ronnie also gave Dick a ball, like 9-8 and 8-7. I know they played multiple times but I don't know who got the best of it.

Dick was known as a pretty smart gambler and it's doubtful he would go looking for the toughest action he could find. I'm sure the games he got were a lot softer than playing guys like Artie and Bugs. Listen Lenny, back then all the good players knew about each other and were usually reluctant to cross swords if they didn't have to. If backers were involved that was another case. It makes no sense for a guy like Dick to go to Chicago and play Bugs or Artie. He could lose and still lose all his action forever!

The best hustlers were out there to make money, not prove something. Look at Jack Cooney, unquestionably one of the best One Pocket players ever, right there with these guys mentioned on here. No one even knew what he looked like!

 

[mr3cushion]

The point is Bill for the 50th time, you are putting down SJDs game and never saw the guy play in his prime. It would be like him knocking your 3 cushion game, makes no sense.

HE HAS a MILLION times! :angry:

I know how the other players play for sure and who they beat and I've NEVER heard of anyone saying SJD could even beat those players! Therefore, by simple deductive reasoning he wouldn't be able to beat Artie or Bugs! for the 50th time!

 

[jay helfert]

HE HAS a MILLION times! :angry:

I know how the other players play for sure and who they beat and I've NEVER heard of anyone saying SJD could even beat those players! Therefore, by simple deductive reasoning he wouldn't be able to beat Artie or Bugs! for the 50th time!

Billy, imo it would have been a good game, but it made no sense for Dick to play either of them. He was probably the slight underdog and unless he was getting weight, why buck the odds. I'm pretty certain if Dick felt like he could win he would have gone up there. But Bugs was world famous and no one wanted to mess with him and Artie was the King of Bensingers. These guys were well known by the other top players. The only guys who tried to play them were guys like Ervolino, Jersey Red, Shorty, Varner and the like. And they couldn't get there so why should Dick venture in there?

Eddie Taylor was the only guy who would play Bugs even and that was tough action for both of them. And you would have had to put a gun to his head to play Artie in Bensingers (plus put up all the money). And Believe me, if anyone could have beaten Artie it would have been Taylor, but Eddie was the careful type, especially with his own money.

 

[bobbycotton]

I played Boston Joey in Tupelo Missippi in 1977 on a bar table with the big rock. i was getting staked, joey broke and ran 13 racks and in the 14th game he scratched on the 9 ball. I had to shoot a spot shot and missed it a diamond lol ! i was accused of dumping, can you believe that lmao!!!

 

[jay helfert]

I played Boston Joey in Tupelo Missippi in 1977 on a bar table with the big rock. i was getting staked, joey broke and ran 13 racks and in the 14th game he scratched on the 9 ball. I had to shoot a spot shot and missed it a diamond lol ! i was accused of dumping, can you believe that lmao!!!

I love you Bobby! Thanks for winning for me! :thumbup:

 

[Hungarian]

That may be the case but there's no way you could have ever beat guys like Jack Knorer or Adrian Viguera playing 3 Cushion for the money. No offense, but they had a higher gear .... FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD....hahaha

HE HAS a MILLION times! :angry:

I know how the other players play for sure and who they beat and I've NEVER heard of anyone saying SJD could even beat those players! Therefore, by simple deductive reasoning he wouldn't be able to beat Artie or Bugs! for the 50th time!

 

[mr3cushion]

That may be the case but there's no way you could have ever beat guys like Jack Knorer or Adrian Viguera playing 3 Cushion for the money. No offense, but they had a higher gear .... FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD....hahaha

All I can tell you is, 'Put them in the box for the CASH!'

That usually stops ALL the BS!

I await YOUR reply!

BTW, don't think I didn't get the HA,HA!

 

[bobbycotton]

thanks jay my friend and i'll always take you for a bank partner any day !!!!! at fatboys you held us up, you made 99% of them !

 

[jay helfert]

That may be the case but there's no way you could have ever beat guys like Jack Knorer or Adrian Viguera playing 3 Cushion for the money. No offense, but they had a higher gear .... FROM WHAT I WAS TOLD....hahaha

A lot of guys have a high gear, but when the bet gets a little too high, they down shift to neutral. Like I said earlier, I saw some damn good players get weak as kittens tangling with Ronnie. Richie, with his amazing shot making, also made a lot of guys forget how to play. Before he had his stroke (20 odd years ago), he was trying to make a comeback just so he could beat Parica. Richie was starting to play good again too!

 

[Hungarian]

I never even heard of you or the two players I mentioned until I clicked a video link from your website to the 1992 3C event in Chicago. The point is I never saw either of you play so how would I be able to determine who could beat who. This is similar to how you have formed your judgement about SJD. That's why the haha.

BTW, after watching some of your video and listening to you teach you sound like a very reasonable person and are obviously a very talented 3C player.

Just for the life of me can't figure out why you won't back off of SJD?

Peace!!

All I can tell you is, 'Put them in the box for the CASH!'

That usually stops ALL the BS!

I await YOUR reply!

BTW, don't think I didn't get the HA,HA!

 

[Fast Lenny]

Cole was the probably the most traveled after Ronnie. Cole would hop a plane and fly to Miami or Atlanta when he was 18! He wasn't afraid to play anyone and it took a great player to beat him even then. Swanee didn't like to travel that much but he would go where the money was. He was much sneakier and not a lot of people knew him, but he did get in some very big games back East (of course some backer flew him in to play someone). After Swanee made a big score and came home with like 20 or 30 large he liked to lay out on the beach, smoke weed and eat a good bar-b-que. He was a great guy, generous with all his friends.

Keith of course got steered all over the country as well, but everyone knew all about him. He was a legend from his days as a teen in Bellflower at the original Billiard Palace. He played against the best hustlers in the country when he was 15 and 16 and beat most of them. It took a Jimmy Reid caliber player to beat Keith even then. I did see Denny (Searcy) get the better of Keith, but nobody could beat Denny at that time.

Thanks Jay for the stories.

 

[Fast Lenny]

I played Boston Joey in Tupelo Missippi in 1977 on a bar table with the big rock. i was getting staked, joey broke and ran 13 racks and in the 14th game he scratched on the 9 ball. I had to shoot a spot shot and missed it a diamond lol ! i was accused of dumping, can you believe that lmao!!!

Nice one Bobby, hope you are doing well. Tell Tricky Ricky I said hello and to jack the bet to ATLEAST $10 a game!

 

[jay helfert]

thanks jay my friend and i'll always take you for a bank partner any day !!!!! at fatboys you held us up, you made 99% of them !

I was hitting them good that day. Max still kids me when he sees me, "No more Banks with you," he says.

 

[Hungarian]

How true. You should see my high gear at $20 a game, I'm unbeatable. But for $500 I pee a little in my pants. FYI..I'm not very good at gambling but love the action..

A lot of guys have a high gear, but when the bet gets a little too high, they down shift to neutral. Like I said earlier, I saw some damn good players get weak as kittens tangling with Ronnie. Richie, with his amazing shot making, also made a lot of guys forget how to play. Before he had his stroke (20 odd years ago), he was trying to make a comeback just so he could beat Parica. Richie was starting to play good again too!

 

[bobbycotton]

I've got Ricky $ 1800 stuck at ten a game, he's a trooper !

 

[jay helfert]

Thanks Jay for the stories.

One more little story about Swanee. He was in the finals at Atlantic City (I think he played Buddy) and they made him put on a Tux for TV. Jay was huge and the Tux just didn't fit. He had the largest shirt available and the collar was still to small for his huge neck. I went into the restroom and there was poor Jay trying to get that top button fastened so he could put on that little tie. He looked at me and said, "Jay can you help me?" I took that tie and fastened it around his neck with the top button of his shirt undone. I secured it so you couldn't really tell. Jay won that match (for like 35K) and immediately after went back to the restroom. I followed him in there and he was ripping off that tie. He looks at me and says, "You darn near strangled me!"

 

[Fast Lenny]

I've got Ricky $ 1800 stuck at ten a game, he's a trooper !

It all adds up that is for sure.

 

[Fast Lenny]

One more little story about Swanee. He was in the finals at Atlantic City (I think he played Buddy) and they made him put on a Tux for TV. Jay was huge and the Tux just didn't fit. He had the largest shirt available and the collar was still to small for his huge neck. I went into the restroom and there was poor Jay trying to get that top button fastened so he could put on that little tie. He looked at me and said, "Jay can you help me?" I took that tie and fastened it around his neck with the top button of his shirt undone. I secured it so you couldn't really tell. Jay won that match (for like 35K) and immediately after went back to the restroom. I followed him in there and he was ripping off that tie. He looks at me and says, "You darn near strangled me!"

How big of a guy was he?

 

[vasilios]

One more little story about Swanee. He was in the finals at Atlantic City (I think he played Buddy) and they made him put on a Tux for TV. Jay was huge and the Tux just didn't fit. He had the largest shirt available and the collar was still to small for his huge neck. I went into the restroom and there was poor Jay trying to get that top button fastened so he could put on that little tie. He looked at me and said, "Jay can you help me?" I took that tie and fastened it around his neck with the top button of his shirt undone. I secured it so you couldn't really tell. Jay won that match (for like 35K) and immediately after went back to the restroom. I followed him in there and he was ripping off that tie. He looks at me and says, "You darn near strangled me!"

Jay Bennie put Swanee in the AC show. Swan would come to Myrtle and stay a month
with his good friend Bobby Taylor. Bennie was now living here also and got wind that me and Bobby were going to put Jay in the AC show and chopped us off. LOL -snooze you loose !
Swan didn't like to play one pocket but he played at champ speed - The same goes for Vernon Elliot !
Wish Bennie was still around to ask what side he would like in some of these possible 1 hole matches.

bill

 

[jay helfert]

Jay Bennie put Swanee in the AC show. Swan would come to Myrtle and stay a month
with his good friend Bobby Taylor. Bennie was now living here also and got wind that me and Bobby were going to put Jay in the AC show and chopped us off. LOL -snooze you loose !
Swan didn't like to play one pocket but he played at champ speed - The same goes for Vernon Elliot !
Wish Bennie was still around to ask what side he would like in some of these possible 1 hole matches.

bill[/QUOTE


Thanks Bill, for the record you are talking about Weenie Beenie, another good friend of mine and a triple smart guy!