No I don't have any of them but I'll check them out.
Scott Frost vs The So Called One Pocket Greats
- Thread starter watchez
- Start date
No I don't have any of them but I'll check them out.
Its funny to me how Scott is always mentioned as the best one pocket player but has he ever beat Corey Deuel for the cash anywhere anytime...
Saw them play twice at Derby for big money an 8 ahead for 5k once and think it was a 6 ahead for 5 k another time...Corey won both times
So unless someone knows of another time of Scott beating him A BIG SET its pretty easy to say Corey is better in my mind...
Granted Corey isnt really dedicated anymore and has zero grind to play a long ahead set in my opinion...but when they played that 8 ahead for 5k about 6 to 8 years ago at Derby i think they were both in their prime and Corey got the cash scott had him stuck 6 ahead and Corey came back and got the dough....
Saw them play twice at Derby for big money an 8 ahead for 5k once and think it was a 6 ahead for 5 k another time...Corey won both times
So unless someone knows of another time of Scott beating him A BIG SET its pretty easy to say Corey is better in my mind...
Granted Corey isnt really dedicated anymore and has zero grind to play a long ahead set in my opinion...but when they played that 8 ahead for 5k about 6 to 8 years ago at Derby i think they were both in their prime and Corey got the cash scott had him stuck 6 ahead and Corey came back and got the dough....
I might be wrong but I'd have to bet that scott was not in his prime 6-8 years ago. I think sometime in the last 2 or 3 years.
IF you had been born a couple of decades earlier, or Tommy Sanders a little later, we could find out who the 'World's Best Pool Playing Car Salesman' definitely is. But we can only speculate. BTW, Congrats on your U.S. Open this year, you did great.
Scott was definitely in his prime then for sure..he was on road playing everyday and betting high unlike now..He played high dollar pool everyday at the derby back then..
Dont know if he will be in there since he doesnt play normal onepocket and if a legend watched him shoot the shots he shoots they would turn over in their graves hahahaha....but he has definitely beat Scott when they played big sets
I believe Frost is the best one-pocket player of today's generation. He is the favorite to beat anyone playing today, certainly in a longer session. At one-pocket, he's one of those unique talents who come along only once each generation or so, like Worst, RA, or Reyes. If Frost would be able to compete frequently with top 1P players, his game would come up even further. He has the spatial feel for the table like RA had (although nobody could move groups of balls toward his hole like RA could), and his touch is comparable to Efren's.
I'm 65, and I've seen the majority of the players who are on the initial list in their primes. Frost would have beaten all but 2 or 3 of them. And even with those guys, he wouldn't have to lose. If he ever slows down maybe half a notch, he's going to be even tougher to beat.
Doc
I'm 65, and I've seen the majority of the players who are on the initial list in their primes. Frost would have beaten all but 2 or 3 of them. And even with those guys, he wouldn't have to lose. If he ever slows down maybe half a notch, he's going to be even tougher to beat.
Doc
I'll bet you he was not in his prime. Ask him.
Thank you! Lol no way tommy sanders would beat me.
well said...
exceptionally well said...
i agree totally. i mean, cooney in his prime? efren, ronnie allen, bugs! all these guys were better than frosty. and definitely add allen hopkins and ervolino to that list!
frost is great, and a ton of fun to watch play...but he is not in the same class with these guys.
BLS
Sorry, but there a lot of guys on that list that I would rate over Scott Frost. In fact, most of them! Bugs, Taylor, Ronnie, Efren, Rags, Cookie, Marvin. C'MON, these guys were great players! These are not shortstops here. Kelly, Shorty, Cooney, Jersey Red, Cornbread! PLEASE. If Scott Frost got a steady diet of these players, he would have to find a new job.
I'd like to see Grady chime in here since he played so many of the above guys, and held his own. And he's seen Scott play. In their prime Sigel and Mizerak would have chewed him up too. Probably Hopkins and maybe Rempe, Varner and Fusco as well. Scott has a huge offense but the guys I listed were just better pool players.
I remember when Mark Tadd was running all over everybody in L.A., firing in balls from everywhere and running out. He ran into Steve Cook in the finals and it was a whole different story. Steve out moved and out shot Mark in every aspect of the game. He totally shut down Mark's big offense. To play truly great One Pocket takes a complete player, who can handle whitey and knows when to shoot and when to duck. Scott ain't there yet.
P.S. Ask Scott how he came out with a 60+ Ervolino in Vegas about ten years ago. The best One Pocket players of this current generation IMO are Shannon and Gabe. Joyner was a better player too before his shoulder went out.
exceptionally well said...
i agree totally. i mean, cooney in his prime? efren, ronnie allen, bugs! all these guys were better than frosty. and definitely add allen hopkins and ervolino to that list!
frost is great, and a ton of fun to watch play...but he is not in the same class with these guys.
BLS
wellat about the same time he gave Bartrum 11-7 10-7 for 20 k and hahim stuck 6 ahead playing 8 ahead....soooo u tell me if he playing good to give chris that spot...
also at the same time he beat kid delicious with the 8 playing 9 ball, gave jason miller 10-7 playing one hole robbed him, gave jason miller the 8 playing 9 ball robbed him beat chris 15 ahead on bar table in one hour...so iguesss he was playing sorta good hahaha
donnie u can run out but when it actually comes to pool and gambling ur clueless
I understand where everyone is coming from in this thread, but don't necessarily agree with some of the statements. Unfortunately, of course, this is all hypothetical as we will never know how the top 1P players of today would fare against those of yesteryear while both in their primes. I've talked with SD quite a bit about 1P today vs. the past and he is of the opinion that todays players would be competitive, but not dominate. Players such as RA, Red, Cookie, Cornbread were pheonomenal 1P players. I think Scott, the way he's playing now, would be 1/2 ball to 1 1/2 ball dog to those players in their prime.
My personal opinion on todays players is Scott, Gabe and Efren are the top 1P players. SD, JJ, and Cliff are right behind them. Think about that though...Shannon plays in 2-3 events a year. He might hit balls for a few weeks prior to those, maybe 1 1/2 month a year where he's actually playing. 10 months of NO playing at all. Yet he still is a threat in any 1P event he enters. If he were playing as often as Scott, IMHO, he would be far the superior player. It's all hypothetical though, no way to find out and no reason for anyone to get their panties in a bunch about this.
My personal opinion on todays players is Scott, Gabe and Efren are the top 1P players. SD, JJ, and Cliff are right behind them. Think about that though...Shannon plays in 2-3 events a year. He might hit balls for a few weeks prior to those, maybe 1 1/2 month a year where he's actually playing. 10 months of NO playing at all. Yet he still is a threat in any 1P event he enters. If he were playing as often as Scott, IMHO, he would be far the superior player. It's all hypothetical though, no way to find out and no reason for anyone to get their panties in a bunch about this.
Well part of this proves at least a little something. Earlier in this someone said that jeremy jones is better at one pocket than frost... jones gave bartram 9-7 and hated every second of it. Yes sir very clueless I am.
We use the "20 years as a player of significance at One Pocket" yardstick to determine eligibility to be included on the ballot. Off the top of my head, I would say Corey would be eligible in about 2020 -- that's twenty years after he entered the World One Pocket Championship in Portland Maine (2000). At that time, he was using the side-of-the-rack 8-ball break for One Pocket. It was a novel idea that according to his own statements at the time, he used because he knew he didn't have the knowledge to hang in there in a standard One Pocket game with the experienced players he was facing in the tournament. That was the first I personally heard of him playing serious One Pocket, so that is only my opinion.
That brings up an interesting question. Lets assume this is true for arguements sake.
If you were actually able to warp an "in his prime" Ronnie Allen to today, right in the heart of his truly top gear years (Jay would know that age perhaps, I have no clue), give him a year to prowl around checking out the new equippment, finding a new custom cue he likes, figuring out which fancy new tip he likes, figuring out simonis cloth, the new polymer resin balls. He spends that year watching some accustats, gambling the local talent as it is today, playing in whatever 1-pocket events he can find, ect...
The question I have for you Donny, after that year how good do you think Ronnie would be? Do you think Scott would be into playing him straight up after that year?
Personally, I am guessing Ronnie knew most of the tricks, the few new things that come up would not be something that would take long for a guy with his loads of talent to pick up on, and perhaps then even improve on.
This is kind of my thought on the whole thing. People ask these questions as if they are yanking the older generation player from out of the cold, slapping him down onto a diamond with Simonis and Aramith Pro balls, and saying "OK, play this guy".
Did you watch the IPT Straight Pool match with Sigel and Schmidt? The aftermath and what John had to say says alot about what the pro's of the olden days had to deal with playing with mud balls, technologically inferior rails, and cloth that was not made to the exact standards of today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOlxow0l8bE&feature=channel
For a pro from the 1950's they would have thought this was more the norm of equippment. I have played with the old balls, they play "dead", they dont do bugger all. You have to stroke the ball like crazy to get them to do anything. From video I have seen the cloth is nothing like the slick simonis of today. Players stroke the balls well but the reactions are dull compared to the reactions with todays balls and cloth.
I think that if you grabbed a Mosconi in his absolute prime and his peak level of playing ability and put him against Schmidt immediately in a long set he would be in tough. I think if you brought him into today at his peak and gave him a month to practice and adjust to the equippment he would be the best straight pool player in the world after that month. He simply had that level of natural ability that just warped everyone in a very competitive era of the sport.
These hypothetical debates are interesting. Times do change. But even if a player in the past plays at a lower level in their era if you grabbed that same player and brought them into the present to compete in this era for a full 10 years of their prime I am pretty sure they take in all of todays advantages and end up taking their spot at the top of todays rankings, just like they did in the past.
Keep in mind, Efren at one time did not know how to play 1-pocket. He picked up alot from watching others, he learned some shots, then he went off on his own and revolutionized the game and made it his own, in turn becomming the one now teaching those who he learned from in the past. If Ronnie came into todays world he would already be a master, but anything he learned from the new breed of players would simply be adding more tools to his arsenal and he would then in turn start improvising his own stuff off of that lead and much like Efren leave people going "what the heck is he doin... holy cripe, that was strong".
Not trying to dog anyone here, but Scott lost to Corey here in town last year, after the Efren match for a couple G's I believe. Unfortunately I didn't get to see it.
td
Donny your an idiot.......
You just hit that rail first.........Play some bumps........
You just hit that rail first.........Play some bumps........