Scott Gracio I want my cue or money back now.

poolmouse said:
Asking customers to send you money as "gift" rather than "payment"?

Are you accustomed to tax evasion as part of your standard business model?
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I have no dog in the hunt, but that is silly statement.

What is it to you?

Gracio, should do the right thing. But wanting to give money to paypal or how someone does their taxes, is a silly arguement.

Stay on topic.

ken
 
cuesblues said:
The original Jim Lee thread was pretty active if I remember correctly,
What is your opinion overall about Jim Lee.
Is he just having problems and trying to work out of it, or does he go to the wall of shame?
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sorry haveent been on in a while. I think it is a bit of everything. i mean cut a man down to nothing with something he cant contorl would ruin anyone of us. he says he is trying to get them done, he did have someone working on them while he supervised but i think that guy ditched jim as well. i do think he will get them done just not any time soon.
 
Graciocues said:
I have thousands of transactions and only a few a were not perfect. I'm not the kind of person to negative back unless it's appropriate.


Wow, now lookie at what we have going on here! This is a little ridiculous as far as I'm concerned.

I am not going to take the time to read through 10 pages of people bashing based on one side of a person's story. I had no idea this thread was taking place until it had reached 8 pages in length, at which point my wife's mother, who is operating her ebay business for her while she is ill, told me that she had gotten a message on ebay, stating that there was concern of my having a substance abuse problem. This could not be further from the truth and I wonder why Sam would email a complete stranger on ebay, who has a Gracio cue listed, and spread rumors like that? Very uncalled for and slanderous.

Since everyone seems to want an answer I will spill my life out to you guys. My wife, of 10 years and I have been going through a divorce in the last year. I was between 2 shops for a little while as we were trying to figure out what to do. In the last several months, we have been able to work things out. She has horrible health issues due to Cystic Fibrosis and had to have a bi-lateral lung transplant, (meaning both lungs), a TRANSPLANT, several years ago. She has now been diagnosed as rejecting her new lungs, which means she will die or have to have another transplant. In the last year she has had to have 3 surgeries for various things which mean we have had to travel 300 miles to her doctors in Seattle many times while she undergoes procedure after procedure to try to figure out what is happening to her. Recovery in the hospital sometimes takes a week or more. I have been stressed out, broke, and exhausted from trying to keep the household on track and take care of her at the same time, as well as trying to be artistic in the shop and keep everyone happy.

I rarely read these forums anymore because of all the drama that happens. It makes my job miserable to read all the BS and back stabbing that goes on in these threads. You guys are like gossipy women who have nothing better to do than feed the fire. I'm done letting the forum's drama affect my life and love for building cues. These forums are not my judge and jury anymore. One person posts something and everyone jumps on the band wagon to try to ruin one's name or reputation. You're affecting people everywhere, not just me. I've bent over backwards for my customers for years. Most of the people I've worked with know and trust my word. I'm not a thief! People will receive the quality and art I can put into a cue whether it's owed or a current paying build, and thanks to the online bullies, they will get them for less than they are worth. I hope Sam, you don't go so far as to ruin the value of the cues people are already playing with or trying to sell that have the Gracio name on it. One good fact is you can't hurt the looks and playability.

For everyone out there jumping on this thread or any other builder's thread, the more you drag someone's name around the further down their cue values will fall, which hurts everyone that owns a cue. It hurts builders from selling which makes them have to work harder to make money for their families. This will only slow the progress of any cue being built. Think about the precautions before you type. Don't jump into a thread with no dealings with the people involved. So many times the good guy looks bad in the end. I'm not saying I'm the good guy in this thread. I've read so many non productive threads in the past because the drama queens have to pipe in with uneducated opinions. Do you people read these forums for the drama?

Internet bullies remind me of this personality defect I've experienced around the car racing or hockey world. Some folks go for the excitement, others only for the crashes or fights. Pathetic!! If you've never (most people in this thread) dealt with me, then slow down with your words and see the outcome of this situation. Sam will get his cue and it will be worth the wait. It will be better than the first one that was stolen. Sam told me he would haunt any thread I started to sell a cue. Go ahead Sam, make my life more complicated if it makes you feel better. I'll still complete your cue and treat you with kindness. I have no room for anger in my life.

Ten pages of comments that are trash and speculation from people who know nothing of the situation, based on Sam's words in anger attempting to get something out of me which I told him is not ready. You all know truths get altered when people are angry. Not saying his words aren't true but they are twisted to make me look bad. I owe him a cue. I sent his cue to somebody else. They won't return it. True story. I stopped answering the same question because I have no new answer. Let me concentrate on work and I will have a different answer soon. I work 10AM to 2AM daily when life's complications don't interrupt. This thread being the most recent. I can not add 4 hours of phone conversation to my schedule. You will get your cue.

I browsed through some of these pages and I can assure you that I have no substance abuse problem, your crazy drama queen solutions will not it get the money back or get the cue done. It's Sams choice to get a refund or a cue. When I have the means to do either we will communicate further. Some communication is required during. We don't need to repeat the same weekly. That goes to all three people I have dept with. If there are any long term dealings I've forgot about or misplaced a work order for a reminder would be helpful. For example, I have a shaft sitting here that I have no idea who to send it back to. It has double metal rings in the collar and it's been on my work table for two moths. Please contact me.
Sam, I am not mad at you. I'm not sure how you could presume that through our recent text messages? I've told you many times it's not ready and my life is turned upside down so work is slow. I know that I need to finish your cue. Your replacement cue is not finished. This thread will not get your cue finished any faster. I did not fall off the face of the earth, I simply can not and will not respond to you once a week repeating the same conversation. Out me if you want. Your cue is not done yet. It will be worth the wait when it is done or I can refund you when I have the means.
You guys want to talk about the builders not coming through? You the customers, are not perfect. For every cue I complete and send out payment request half are problematic. Two weeks prior they claimed to be ready. Delays and even no payment happen all the time. Builders need to get paid when the cues are finished and we need to finish the cues as stated. Wood is a beast and money doesn't grow on trees so perfection either way will never happen. Both sides need improvement!!!!! Treat others as you want them to treat you. Simple rule of life.

Ideologist, I did not take your money and "disappear". You paid me about a week or so before posting here. I told you a client sent a cue back for a repair then did a charge back on his credit card, wiping out my paypal account. I had his cue for about 5 weeks, must have been too long for him to wait for his repair to be completed. I did not ask you for more money for shipping. I simply told you the reason it had not been shipped yet. The people who sent me extra for shipping in the past have offered so they could get their cue back sooner than I could do it. Your cue has been shipped and you have received it, why not come here and say so? I kept you informed. The few days I didn't come on AZ your PM's were not read. I was busy working to get some cash to ship your cue so getting on the forum wasn't a priority. You, I am irritated with, just fueling the fire. Sam, at least has a reason to say something, since he has been waiting about 10 months for a replacement cue. You jumped the gun. I finished my commitment to you, not as a result of this thread, as you antagonistically tried to claim, but because that's what I do.

I have hundreds of hours on this site and know how this pool world works. Money!!!! That's the bottom line. I build a cue. Somebody lowball pays. Somebody sells for profit. If you don't know this yet, learn it. Cues will be talked about more when money is to be made. I put a stop to this pumping my cues for profit years ago. I will not discount for flippers and they have never liked me much as a result. My cues have and will continue speak for themselves. I will deal with the pool player directly and they will pay my price, not a hyped salesman's prices.

I build a damn fine cue and am very good at what I do. I have a few debts, as does anyone. People are not crawling out of the wood work saying I have done them wrong. You don't want to buy my cues as a result of this thread, then your loss.

I do not want to post again on this thread. Feel free to twist my words, ridicule me, whatever gets your rocks off. I don't have the time to word this perfectly or repeat it for the next week. I'll be dealing with more important things like my wife's health and catching up on the business that I have gotten behind on.

Back to real life for me. Fire away drama queens...
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You know a simply "sorry" would have gone a lot farther than that post full of crap.

One of the great things about this forum is the community rallies when somebody is getting ripped off. Yet here you are slamming all the "drama queens". You have to be smart enough to realize the reason this is happening is 100% based on your failure to:

1. Communicate with the customer
2. Provide a cue in the agreed timeframe
3. Send cues to the person who ordered the cue

Actually, a lot of the people you have robbed were keeping quiet in hopes that they would get a cue eventually. This thread brought them out with the horror stories about the shit you have pulled.
 
it's classic for people who are in the dead wrong to try and spin things hoping that they, themselves, will look like a victim.

best,
brian aka drama chicken
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
it's classic for people who are in the dead wrong to try and spin things hoping that they, themselves, will look like a victim.

best,
brian aka drama chicken
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Oh, quit being such a "drama queen" KC :) lol

Exactly, life throws us all curveballs, who has not experiened family health issues, even death, and a bunch of other family and personal "crap". but guess what, we all still gotta show up for work. Just the way it works.

But for some cuemakers, they like to live by some other code, where their word means squat, and rather than get a heartfelt apology he tells everyone else to pound sand and still not even provide what was paid for to his customer.

Un friggin believable Scott. You really showed your arse in this thread. Hopefully, you reflect on this and do the right thing, which should have been done months ago.
 
ArtOfTheCue said:
Reading this thread, he never seems to have enough money for shipping. If he has that much trouble scraping together $20 or so that often, I wonder where all the money is going... is it possible he's got a substance problem of some sort? Seems like pretty textbook addict behavior.
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A substance problem? NEVER!! That is unheard of in the billiards world!!;)
 
No sympathy for those who spend a customer's cash before shipping the product which was paid for. None. The $$ is not rightfully Scott's until the transaction is completed, so a refund should never be an issue.

If Scott is in the habit of spending money before delivering on what is owed, that's on him. Plenty of other (bad) cue makers have made the same mistake and it should be easy to learn from that history.
 
Wood is a beast and money doesn't grow on trees
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Wood for the most part is not a Beast. Go to Bell Forest Products for one and have a look.
There are a couple of other great suppliers that will have pretty much anything you need.
African Black Wood, Ebony, figured Cocobolo and Purple Heart.

Highly figured wood is considerably more but the front money that customers are sending should at least cover the cost of materials. That is, if the money isn't spent on bills and living expenses.

Its a Beast if you're broke and one hasn't the money to buy materials to start the cue.

What happened to the River of Wood that the majority of cue makers have sleeping on a shelf, ready to be wakened.

I just do repairs and don't build but I swear, I have a couple or more hundred pounds of rather plain to exotic figured wood sitting just outside the shop.

No excuse for this. Receive money, buy supplies, simple.

Just Chameleon tactics, change excuses as need be.
 
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Samdech said:
March 1 2013 I ordered a cue from Graciocues, I sent him a down payment of 100.00 he was suppose to make me a cue from a hoppe blank that I purchased from a friend that he had at his shop. He called me march 10 and said he was going on a trip and needed some additional money ident him 550.00 more the balance for the cue,April 25 he told me the cue was done but I would have to wait till he was able to get some money to ship it, i sent him 30.00 for shipping. He said he shipped the cue and gave me a tracking number after 2 day I called him and told him the package was in S Carolina he said he shipped to the wrong adders and that a guy named Barry Stewart would not return it and ripped of and that he would replace the cue with one he would make.now a year later he hasn't done anything.he has sold 3 cues on AZB and a lathe.I want him to answer me here on AZB.
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Did you ever get your cue? Or for this matter...anyone else receive a cue?
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
it's classic for people who are in the dead wrong to try and spin things hoping that they, themselves, will look like a victim.

best,
brian aka drama chicken
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I forgot for a very brief moment this was you. Anyone else would have read "chalk" and known this was a billiard forum. Nice find. Have a great weekend buddy.
 
wow! not an apology or even a "I dropped the ball" from Scott....and then to go on bashing people on the largest billiards forum...as a part business owner in his situation I would be apologizing non stop to the customer and working day and night to make things right and keep a reputation, I worked 80 hours last week and through the weekend to finish a large order that was a past its deadline, and the delay was only partially our fault. Now many potential future customers wanting to order from him will type his name in on google and find this thread. ouch
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
it's classic for people who are in the dead wrong to try and spin things hoping that they, themselves, will look like a victim.

best,
brian aka drama chicken
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Is this an imposter, I mean the real Kickin' Chicken would say you don't have all the information, I'd have him make me a cue and pay him up front no problem, or I'm sure he'll made good on it some time before you die.

He might even pay you back the money and just get it from the trusted cue maker later, oops I got carried away I guess, with this last one.
 
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joeknowspool said:
I hate to bring up an old thread but has the OP settled anything with Scott? I don't have time to read all pages due to 3 of my kids having taken up moat of my time. Thanks!

PS, I gave him a deposit in 2011 and had Gil (Castillo goods) send him a sharkin wrap.....i eother want my cue made still (lol) or deposit AND wrap back.
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Sorry to inform you that this thread has moved past the 'justice be served' phase and is now squarely in the 'settling of scores and grinding of axes' area.
 
joeknowspool said:
I hate to bring up an old thread but has the OP settled anything with Scott? I don't have time to read all pages due to 3 of my kids having taken up moat of my time. Thanks!

PS, I gave him a deposit in 2011 and had Gil (Castillo goods) send him a sharkin wrap.....i eother want my cue made still (lol) or deposit AND wrap back.
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Eventually heard from Scott, he said he isn't ripping me off. Hasn't sent picture of cue, and haven't heard a peep from him, but anytime he tries to sell a cue on this forum, I will bring it to his attention. Of course it's only been a year and a few months since I sent him payment in full. What a joke!
 
Samdech said:
Eventually heard from Scott, he said he isn't ripping me off. Hasn't sent picture of cue, and haven't heard a peep from him, but anytime he tries to sell a cue on this forum, I will bring it to his attention. Of course it's only been a year and a few months since I sent him payment in full. What a joke!
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Wow, this is getting ridiculous.
Way, way too much time has gone by. :mad:
The bell has rung, time to deliver!

Will Prout
 
I guess experience should be the teacher here. Many years ago I put a down payment on a used car ($100). Then they couldn't get the title for some weird reason but wanted me to pay in full so they could complete the deal. I told them to keep the $100 and that I was walking. I got a lot of pressure put on me but would not budge. Somehow, they got the title that same day and I completed the deal.

In your case, I would not have allowed a change in the deal and would not have given the final payment until the deal was completed as agreed. As soon as I heard the request in your post to get a payment so he could take a vacation, the hairs on the back of my neck went up. Does this excuse the cue maker, no but you need to be more careful.

Al
 
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