Secrets!

I personally believe it has more to do with "Free Will" than anything else.

JoeyA said:
Exactly!

I think some people get all fidgety when someone talks about "SECRETS" in pool. Utilizing the word "SECRETS" is just one way to garner someone's attention so that you can share the information that has so far, been "hidden" from them because they haven't been exposed to it.

Everyone, well almost everyone enjoys learning a new SECRET every now and then.

I don't want to waste my time with those that wail and whine that the information isn't a secret and that the information is readily available here or there.

I enjoy sharing the secrets of the professional players when I do commentary and I have to believe that they too, enjoy knowing that someone out there enjoys learning what they believe is information that is not common knowledge.

Sharing that knowledge is fun and if you don't know the information then I am going to call it a SECRET and share it with you. :smile:

JoeyA
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The fact of the matter is most players perform their level because they're comfortable not getting any better. Unless it comes in a pill form it's just too much work and responsibility to play at a higher level. I really don't expect everyone to agree with what I just said, however I know it's true. I experienced this in martial arts, tennis and golf....even when I found out how to reach higher levels "something" held me back

Pool was different for me because I was willing to do whatever it took to be the best and that meant LISTENING to others. This is the key and few of us will ever be willing to do what other people tell us to do.....even when we know, in our "heart of hearts" that it is true. I personally believe it has more to do with "Free Will" than anything else.

'The Game of Life is the Teacher'
 
Can someone learn on their own?

ABSOLUTELY!

Everyone has access to the infinite source of knowledge, some refer to it as God, for now we will call it the super consciousness. If you don't know the answer to a problem then you turn to it for a solution.

Sometimes the solution is manifested directly to your conscious mind, through the subconscious, from the superconscious. Have you ever been trying to figure out how to do something and then an idea came to you and when you tried it you were amazed at the effectiveness? Where does this idea come from? Anyone who says you can't learn on your own is incorrect, after all, someone had to learn the skill on their own in order for it to exist.

That does not mean that I am opposed to books or instructors though. In fact I believe that sometimes the solution is manifested to you in the form of a book, DVD, or instruction. But here's the rub, what do you do when knoedge is presented to you from two credible sources but the information contradicts each other? One pro says to stroke one way, another says to do it this way, another instructor says both are wrong.

The answer IMO is as I said earlier.

The real secret is to practice, lots of practice, and do what clicks with you.

Above all else you need to believe in your abilities and have faith that you are capable. Even if you don't see yourself as capable to perform you need to at least see yourself as capable to learn, with of without an instructor.
 
hey JoeyA...

in appreciation of your comment i learned the following too many years ago to remember, but i find it has been a cornerstone of my life...

"To one who has had the experience no explanation is necessary; to one who has not had the experience no explanation is possible."

i have carried that in my mind for most of a lifetime...

all the best,
smokey


JoeyA said:
I agree that it is very difficult to verbally explain not only the concept of a relaxed arm but many other things. I spend lots of time with a friend who does not have much time to play pool and I attempt to articulate what I see and feel. It is easy for me to explain myself in words but my explanation sometimes falls short.

Besides my own failings to communicate my thoughts, it is possible that the other person must be or must have experienced some of what you are discussing. If they haven't experienced or aren't experiencing what you are discussing, you can only hope they will remember what you attempted to communicate when they do cross that particular bridge.
Click to expand...
 
JoeyA said:
I had a conversation with someone recently who mentioned that the professional pool players will tell you many things that will help your game but that there are some "secrets" that you will never pry from their minds.

This is obviously true and it has been my personal experience as well. I once asked Ralf Souquet what his technique was for maintaining composure and he said he would only reveal that only after his days of competition are over. I can understand that and I'm sure many of you can as well.

There are other things (secrets) that top players know that some of us don't know but I suspect that some secrets are idiosyncratic and may not be as valuable to others as they are for the person who thinks it is "the secret" to their success.

I think we all learn particular things which help our game but that they are relative to us as individuals. Sure, those unique things that we do to help us pocket balls might help others but not always. I haven't tested my theory out on any of the professional players but I would almost bet that they do unusual things to help them pocket balls but may be too embarassed to tell others how they perceive or execute the shots because it isn't in the books. ;) We all know that if it isn't in the books, then it can't be right. :p
Click to expand...

i don't think that they keep secrets to themselves, well maybe they do, but they just understand things in a way that they get but you don't. they can't explain it to you because they don't realize that they understand things a specific way
 
Your "perfect game" waits under the level of consciousness, this is the mystery

(((Satori))) said:
Can someone learn on their own?

ABSOLUTELY!

Everyone has access to the infinite source of knowledge, some refer to it as God, for now we will call it the super consciousness. If you don't know the answer to a problem then you turn to it for a solution.

Sometimes the solution is manifested directly to your conscious mind, through the subconscious, from the superconscious. Have you ever been trying to figure out how to do something and then an idea came to you and when you tried it you were amazed at the effectiveness? Where does this idea come from? Anyone who says you can't learn on your own is incorrect, after all, someone had to learn the skill on their own in order for it to exist.

That does not mean that I am opposed to books or instructors though. In fact I believe that sometimes the solution is manifested to you in the form of a book, DVD, or instruction. But here's the rub, what do you do when knoedge is presented to you from two credible sources but the information contradicts each other? One pro says to stroke one way, another says to do it this way, another instructor says both are wrong.

The answer IMO is as I said earlier.

The real secret is to practice, lots of practice, and do what clicks with you.

Above all else you need to believe in your abilities and have faith that you are capable. Even if you don't see yourself as capable to perform you need to at least see yourself as capable to learn, with of without an instructor.
Click to expand...

Yes, indeed, your game is the teacher. Probably the biggest secrets are related to the "mental side," and would sound silly to those that don't have an open mind. It's been written "The wisdom of man is foolishness to man's "Higher Power," and unfortunately the reverse is also true these days. I believe now that for a person to reach their full potential they must be totally ready and put this as their #1 priority in life. (at least for awhile)

There are "secrets," however, it's all about increasing margin of error and creating zones so you have an advantage. These are no longer "secrets," although you will still need "eyes that can see" (subconsciously)" and "ears that can hear" (unconsciously).

Your "perfect game" waits under the level of consciousness, this is the mystery that's been kept secret since the dawn of time. Don't tell anyone, it's a "secret". ;)
 
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I am not a great player, but I learned a few things a long the way that helped me get better. Learned some of my best stroke tips from an old man,who had one of the sweetest strokes ever, but he wasn't a famous player. He's been dead for some time now and I don't think he'd mind me sharing his words of wisdom.

1. Not a secret but a nice pointer to a young player. I just made huge drawshot and turned around to see his reaction. He had a stern look on his face and here is what he said: "Nice shot, but you made to much noise. Try shooting that shot without making ANY noise and you'll have really learned something."

2. "Don't let your cue get ahead of your arm. Slow your stroke down to super slow-motion until you feel your arm taking your cue with it. Then practise building speed, never letting the cue getting ahead of your arm".

3. Masse shots: "Think of them in terms of contact time." If you are shooting down on a shot at a given angle the power determines when it turns in. Its easier to control the power on a masse shot when you think of it in terms of time of tip contact.
 
Like it is written before, things are so different now than 20 years ago, especially for us in Europe.
A lot of info is now provided worldwide, playing part in overall level improvement.
So it's much easier to study the game nowdays, much less info is "hidden". However, in learning process:

-No instructional material can ever substitude a good instructor
-No instructor can ever substitude serious personal practice
-No practice can ever substitude competitive play

Petros
 
CJ Wiley said:
Yes, indeed, your game is the teacher.

There are "secrets," however, it's all about increasing margin of error and creating zones so you have an advantage. These are no longer "secrets," although you will still need "eyes that can see" (subconsciously)" and "ears that can hear" (unconsciously).

Your "perfect game" waits under the level of consciousness, this is the mystery that's been kept secret since the dawn of time. Don't tell anyone, it's a "secret". ;)
Click to expand...

Along the path to great pool some people turn to hypnosis, and maybe that has benefits, but for best results I recommend to dehypnotize ones self. To eliminate the self limiting beliefs. This is done with practice and the right mindset.

Of course JoeyA is right and I hope he forgives me for sounding like I was arguing. There are secrets one has that benefit their game and up and comers can learn from the guys who have been there. A guy like you has a lot to offer someone who wants to learn. But the real lesson is for the student to take it to the table and work out their game. You have said this but it is worth repeating.
 
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JoeyA said:
I had a conversation with someone recently who mentioned that the professional pool players will tell you many things that will help your game but that there are some "secrets" that you will never pry from their minds.

This is obviously true and it has been my personal experience as well. I once asked Ralf Souquet what his technique was for maintaining composure and he said he would only reveal that only after his days of competition are over. I can understand that and I'm sure many of you can as well.

There are other things (secrets) that top players know that some of us don't know but I suspect that some secrets are idiosyncratic and may not be as valuable to others as they are for the person who thinks it is "the secret" to their success.

I think we all learn particular things which help our game but that they are relative to us as individuals. Sure, those unique things that we do to help us pocket balls might help others but not always. I haven't tested my theory out on any of the professional players but I would almost bet that they do unusual things to help them pocket balls but may be too embarassed to tell others how they perceive or execute the shots because it isn't in the books. ;) We all know that if it isn't in the books, then it can't be right. :p
Click to expand...

JoeyA,
I think you are right. I was playing banks with a friend of mine once, great player we were playing banks and he says something about a spot he uses on the table to make Passover Banks with. I should have been listening better he said it before he realized what he had said. So we kept talking and I knew he had told me something ultra secret and I asked him about it and you know I couldn't get it out of him with dynamite then.

So I tried my best to remember what he said an recreated what I thought was the situation over again about a thousand times before I began unlocking the key to what he said. I guess I developed my own version of it cause it sure works.

I'll bet there are bunch of those things out there.
 
Erickson Hypnosis under Richard Bandler.

(((Satori))) said:
Along the path to great pool some people turn to hypnosis, and maybe that has benefits, but for best results I recommend to dehypnotize ones self. To eliminate the self limiting beliefs. This is done with practice and the right mindset.

Of course JoeyA is right and I hope he forgives me for sounding like I was arguing. There are secrets one has that benefit their game and up and comers can learn from the guys who have been there. A guy like you has a lot to offer someone who wants to learn. But the real lesson is for the student to take it to the table and work out their game. You have said this but it is worth repeating.
Click to expand...

That'a very wise, many are "hypnotised" to believe self limiting techniques and concepts.

I studied Erickson Hypnosis under Richard Bandler......and I'm certainly glad.....glad.....gla....gl....g.....;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson
 
Key to Secrets

JoeyA said:
I've always thought of the pool world as a pie as far as "secrets" are concerned. If by sharing "secrets" I can help to make the pie larger and taste better, there will be more slices for me and others to partake.

Also, when you share a pool "secret", it "MAY" enhance another person's play and that person may come back to beat you at a later date but that should only foster increased resolve on your part to give you impetus to work even harder, to better your game.

The sad truth is that most people are too lazy to put in the time that it takes to learn how to execute the knowledge that they already have. Don't worry, most people aren't even "listening" to the secrets. :smilewinkgrin:
Click to expand...

JoeyA,
You are exactly right about people not listening. I have a name for it I call it "Testosterone Blindness."

Its and interesting disease and since women have some too they can get it as well. It is usually marked by the attitude I know it all and I don't want to hear anything you have to say even though you might play a lot better than I do, but the great thing about the disease is those people with it keep trying to figure it out which keeps pool rooms open.

It takes awhile to realize that maybe you need a new something in your game for it to improve and that's when its time to get a lesson to open up your eyes a bit.

That can happen when you've just parted with your money.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Can someone learn on their own?

ABSOLUTELY!

Everyone has access to the infinite source of knowledge, some refer to it as God, for now we will call it the super consciousness. If you don't know the answer to a problem then you turn to it for a solution.

Sometimes the solution is manifested directly to your conscious mind, through the subconscious, from the superconscious. Have you ever been trying to figure out how to do something and then an idea came to you and when you tried it you were amazed at the effectiveness? Where does this idea come from? Anyone who says you can't learn on your own is incorrect, after all, someone had to learn the skill on their own in order for it to exist.

That does not mean that I am opposed to books or instructors though. In fact I believe that sometimes the solution is manifested to you in the form of a book, DVD, or instruction. But here's the rub, what do you do when knoedge is presented to you from two credible sources but the information contradicts each other? One pro says to stroke one way, another says to do it this way, another instructor says both are wrong.

The answer IMO is as I said earlier.

The real secret is to practice, lots of practice, and do what clicks with you.

Above all else you need to believe in your abilities and have faith that you are capable. Even if you don't see yourself as capable to perform you need to at least see yourself as capable to learn, with of without an instructor.
Click to expand...

Satori,

Some very good points. Points that evryone should give some serious thought.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

PS I prefer to categorize & recognize my abilities both in the game & my ability to learn as gifts. Gifts that I graciously accept, appreciate, acknowledge, & remember to give thanks to Who Ever or Where Ever they come from.
 
(((Satori))) said:
Along the path to great pool some people turn to hypnosis, and maybe that has benefits, but for best results I recommend to dehypnotize ones self. To eliminate the self limiting beliefs. This is done with practice and the right mindset.
Click to expand...

(The above is a partial quote.)

Satori,

The statements in bold above are a couple more very good points.

Best,
Rick
 
336Robin said:
JoeyA,
You are exactly right about people not listening. I have a name for it I call it "Testosterone Blindness."

Its and interesting disease and since women have some too they can get it as well. It is usually marked by the attitude I know it all and I don't want to hear anything you have to say even though you might play a lot better than I do, but the great thing about the disease is those people with it keep trying to figure it out which keeps pool rooms open.

It takes awhile to realize that maybe you need a new something in your game for it to improve and that's when its time to get a lesson to open up your eyes a bit.

That can happen when you've just parted with your money.
Click to expand...

Robin,

I just read a post last night where someone played badly for 15 years & is now so glad that some instructional info is finally getting him to play better.

I asked him if he had thought that doing the same thing for 15 years was going to yield a different result.

If one's mind is blocked closed with Testosterone or any form of ego then their mind can not take them any further than where they are.

I have played rather well for 46 years but CJ putting his TOI methods out & my being open to at least taking a look at what was the exact opposite of my english spin methods has certainly helped me to improve.

I can never understand why one closes their minds & thinks that they have all of the info & have made the correct decision. They just don't seem to understand that no one earth can contain all of the information that exists.

Like Bruce Lee said, 'Be Like Water My Friend'.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick
 
ENGLISH! said:
dr_dave said:
We've had lots of threads like this over the years and I've assembled many of the useful "secrets." They can be found (with supporting learning resources) here:

Top 100 Pool "Secrets" and "Gems"

Enjoy,
Dave
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Dave,

Those aren't secrets.
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That's why I have quotes around the word "secrets."

ENGLISH! said:
Everyone that can play a lick knows them.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I have personally met many very good players who didn't know (or intuitively understand) quite a few "gems" on the list.

ENGLISH! said:
We want NEW secrets.:wink:
Click to expand...
Okay. How about this: If you already know everything, the only thing you can do to get better is to practice and focus.
But that's no "secret" either, is it?

Regards,
Dave
 
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