seeking stroke as subconscious action

berlowmj

berlowmj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How long does it take to achieve?

Recommendations for facilitating the process?

I recently attempted to move to a higher level by maximizing the distance between the CB & OB & OB & pocket in my drills. The result has been more conscious behavior & a decline in my learning curve.

I have read that the same routine should be followed regardless of the difficulty of the shot.

However, I observe the good players taking minimal preparation on easy shots & more on difficult shots.

I am referring to practice strokes & shifting eye focus between CB & OB with focus on OB as trigger is pulled.

Regressions in my learning curve are a great source of frustration.
 
berlowmj said:
How long does it take to achieve?

Recommendations for facilitating the process?

I recently attempted to move to a higher level by maximizing the distance between the CB & OB & OB & pocket in my drills. The result has been more conscious behavior & a decline in my learning curve.

I have read that the same routine should be followed regardless of the difficulty of the shot.

However, I observe the good players taking minimal preparation on easy shots & more on difficult shots.

I am referring to practice strokes & shifting eye focus between CB & OB with focus on OB as trigger is pulled.

Regressions in my learning curve are a great source of frustration.
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Hit a million balls and get back to me. :)
 
jay helfert said:
Hit a million balls and get back to me. :)
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lol,

It's kind of true though. Practice, Practice, Practice.

It seems like by missing a shot over 500 000 times, you get rewarded by rarely ever missing that shot. If you miss it 1 000 000 times you never miss the shot again.
 
berlowmj said:
How long does it take to achieve?
That depends on the individual achieving the subconscious action of the stroke.

berlowmj said:
Recommendations for facilitating the process?
Observe, Act, and respond. See, see, and Act. See, Observe, and I.

In the end, you are still responsible for your own stroke.


berlowmj said:
I recently attempted to move to a higher level by maximizing the distance between the CB & OB & OB & pocket in my drills. The result has been more conscious behavior & a decline in my learning curve.

I have read that the same routine should be followed regardless of the difficulty of the shot.

However, I observe the good players taking minimal preparation on easy shots & more on difficult shots.

I am referring to practice strokes & shifting eye focus between CB & OB with focus on OB as trigger is pulled.

Regressions in my learning curve are a great source of frustration.
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I wish you well.
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What Jay said... but gamble while you're doing it.

Maybe Scott or Randy or someone very knowledgeable in the teaching of pool will come in and give you a real comment. Keep your fingers crossed.
 
How long does it take? It takes as long as it takes. Much depends on you. If you are practicing the right things, those things will evolve into your subconscious and you will find yourself doing them in a game situation without even thinking about it. If you are practicing the wrong things, or even the right things the wrong way, you are simply re-enforcing bad habits which will slow your progress. Knowing what to practice and how to practice will shorten the learning curve, but it will be different for each individual. As the car companies say...your mileage may vary.
Steve
 
Jeff Carter told me that there's no such thing as a hard shot just shots you know and shots you don't know.

That might not be 100% inclusive but you get the point. :)
 
The key to learning and planting it in the subconscious process is to make the shot. At least 90% of your shots should be easy. The body remembers what you have done right.

To make some shots easy you need to start where you make the ball. If you can make it 90% of the time at two feet then move to the next place where you can make it 90% of the time. This may be three feet it may be 2.5 feet. The same with angles, banks, combinations, the use of english, follow and draw.

I recommend highligting the shot and the stroke when you do it right. Get happy, call it the "A stroke." or whatever makes it stand out from your mistakes. A recent article in Science concludes that body memory is often tagged by sights, smells, sounds, attitudes and body position.

I'll bet that you have at least one of these types of memories, The smell of cinnamon reminds you of ---

This means that if you are "happy" when you make shots you will tag these shots with your attitude. Isn't it a shame when people have to get angry to win.

Because strong emotions assist in the tagging process some people think that you have to gamble or play against a stronger player. This is unfortunate, if you understand the reasons you can generate them yourself. Competitive situations generate strong emotions (whether you display them or not is another matter). These emotions can sometimes be used to tag a style of play.

If you play against a stronger player you are making far fewer good shots, taking a beating much of the time, and hence reduce the learning curve. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure out that great ball players did not have to gamble or play in critical games. They brought their game to the field.

On the practice table you can (and should) set the emotional tone to help set the body memories in your subconscious. You can make practice competitive by competing with yourself, trying to do better than you did last time. This is why it is good to practice with 14.1 and begin with ball in hand in a broken rack as a test of your current ability. You start with easy shots and make the practice more competitive by running more balls than you did last time. In begins with easy shots (making 90%) of the balls. You set the attitude, and then it gets more difficult as you get closer to your goal.

Make the drills more competitive by shading the difficulty by reducing the number made. Start with a shot you make 90% of the time, make ten and make the shot a little more difficult while you try to keep the 90% hit rate. How long can you sustain it and continue to maintain the attitude you have chosen. The result is what you take to a real competitive situation, your ability and your attitude.

If you want to play your best you need to make the shot 90% of the time, and tag the event. Bring what you know to competitive situation. Do not go into competitive situations when you have not acquired the skills.
 
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jay helfert said:
Hit a million balls and get back to me. :)
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May I humbly nominate for post of the year?
At least a sticky.

Dale

To OP:
It would seem that not only are you thinking about your stroke
while shooting<a bad situation>, you are thinking about how to stop thinking about your stroke...

I highly recomend you set up an easy half-ball-hit cut shot, shoot it in
at least a dozen times, casually observe where the CB contacts the
Third rail.
Now, shoot the same shot 10 times at various speeds and spins.
At this point you should have a 'feel' for this shot - and, you should be able to quit thinking about the stroke.

Finally, pick a point on the third rail you feel confident you can hit
after pocketing the shot - freeze a ball at that spot - see how many
times you can hit the other ball out of ten shots.

Hopefully, this will force you to quit thinking about the stroke and
concentrate on the results.

Lather, rinse, repeat. Do this 10 days in a row, you should be on the road to internalizing' your stroke mechanics.
 
"Thinking about not thinking" is deep. Thanks for emphasis on repetition of easier shots. Short to long rather than long to short. I must confess a lack of patience with myself. Thank all of you.
 
I just read excerpts from the Zen of Pool and realized that I don't have sufficient trust in my stroke. I sent for the book.

I also set up a straight shot & replicated it by putting down those notebook paper reinforcers so I could forget about alignment & trust my stroke. I did several sets of 15 balls with pauses in between.

I then went on to the L drill.

I need to video tape myself.
 
jay helfert said:
Hit a million balls and get back to me. :)
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Well, sure, but he's asking *how* to hit them to improve most rapidly.

I believe the hardest thing to learn about your stroke is how to relax your arm so you're not "steering" it in a straight line with your arm muscles, and I believe finding your own "natural stance" is key to that. Try to find a stance that permits a loose, straight stroke without the steering and you'll save yourself lots of time and difficulty trying to train your arm muscles to do this complex task.

There are lots of books and videos about stance - read or watch some and take their advice, but not as literal gospel. Try to build a stance for yourself that's similar to those "ideal" stances but tailored to your body and conducive to the naturally straight stroke it can produce.

pj
chgo
 
Improving is tough!

Berlowmj,

When you increase the difficulty of your practice shots, that alone is some evidence, a realtime receipt if you will, of improvement.

What you've stepped into isn't that you are losing ground on the learning curve, I can attest that what is really affecting you is the psych effect of seeming to go into a slump.

You get better, right; then you seem to take a big step back. Just keep doing those practice drills and keep at it, you'll be happy with the results.

However, if you are still in this slump after a couple months and you really want to take it to the next level, seek an instructor. ;)

Yours Truly,
The Woim
 
pool

Neil said:
Here is something for you to try. Once you have practiced your stroke enough times to reasonably have it where you want it, you have to shift to 'letting' it happen. This is the subconscience that you speak of. You can only think of one thing at a time. So, in your warmup-up strokes, just tell yourself 'stroke it straight', THEN forget about it. The way to forget about it is to shift your focus to something else. Namely, sero in on your target. Focus on EXACTLY where you want to hit that object ball. That will make the stroke automatic.
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stroking a cue stick straight or crooked does not put balls into pockets. we do not aim cue sticks, we aim cue balls at object balls on every shot, trying to see a dot on an object ball or cue ball is ridiculous.

hal
 
pool

stroking a cue stick straight or crooked does not put balls into pockets. we do not aim cue sticks, we aim cue balls at object balls on every shot, trying to see a dot on an object ball or cue ball is ridiculous.
 
kildegirl said:
stroking a cue stick straight or crooked does not put balls into pockets. we do not aim cue sticks, we aim cue balls at object balls on every shot, trying to see a dot on an object ball or cue ball is ridiculous.
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The only piece of equipment we have direct control over on every shot is the pool cue. It is what we do with the pool cue that determines everything else that happens on the table.
Steve
 
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