Seriously, how lame has pool become?!

[Petros Andrikop]

Today's playing conditions are too fast, players know that if they don't play quite slow in order to ensure position they are lost.

That, along with alternate break format and modern break conditions don't provide a show like it used to be in the 90s, when a faster rhythm was suited to slower conditions and breaking involved more power.

This way the best players are not protected anymore, in today's Pool it's "everybody and nobody".

Also, the amateur part of Pool has "evolved" to a "pro" situation, thus creating two limited closed worlds that do not interact anymore like in the past.

Will the game/sport endure in this direction? Sure, but not surely as exciting as it used to be.

 

[Ak Guy]

We maybe.....

I like 9 Ball and it is a challenge to me as I am a lowly amateur player.

I would prefer a U. S. Open Super 10 Ball on 10 foot Diamond tables for those sharp shooting pros. I doubt we will see that,

But, watching 9 Ball is more fun to me then a long One Pocket game.

I think the 14.1 record run Mosconi set years ago would of been boring to watch. Here we had the best player alive shooting balls in for hours on an 8 foot table with big pockets.

Was that really hard for him?

 

[LeonD123]

Let Barry Hearn run pool !

 

[coco9]

Today's playing conditions are too fast, players know that if they don't play quite slow in order to ensure position they are lost.

That, along with alternate break format and modern break conditions don't provide a show like it used to be in the 90s, when a faster rhythm was suited to slower conditions and breaking involved more power.

This way the best players are not protected anymore, in today's Pool it's "everybody and nobody".

Also, the amateur part of Pool has "evolved" to a "pro" situation, thus creating two limited closed worlds that do not interact anymore like in the past.

Will the game/sport endure in this direction? Sure, but not surely as exciting as it used to be.

Could not agree more.

No big strokes required anymore because of the super fine fast clothes. The game, with fast cloth and tighter pockets, requires more of a snooker stance than a traditional pool stance meaning pool is not what it once was with a variety of different styles.

The fast cloth also makes the players more careful and cautious with both positional play and what shots to take on.

GO back to slow thick clothes and rack with a wooden triangle and get power and rhythm back into the game. Will this get the masses watching the game? No. But it will at least get pool players interested in playing and watching again.

 

[gxman]

The boring part was the players only being able to play 1 match per day up until Friday.

Also there should be a capability to choose which match you can watch out of maybe 3-4 tv tables. Don't need all the fancy angles or needing commentary on all tables.

 

[BeiberLvr]

The boring part was the players only being able to play 1 match per day up until Friday.

Also there should be a capability to choose which match you can watch out of maybe 3-4 tv tables. Don't need all the fancy angles or needing commentary on all tables.

This is the real issue, and why Accu-Stats really needs to get with the times.

Streaming 1 table with commentary and then 3-4 more tables without commentary isn't that difficult.

This thread might not have been made, if the OP had options of different matches to watch.

 

[Black-Balled]

Guess we figured out that pool is more a participatory sport than spectator sport.

Move along...

 

[336Robin]

I think the reason Pool was popular in the US was because it was a participation game first before it was ever for entertainment. The sheer numbers of men that flocked to the Pool Rooms to figure out the pecking order was at one time pretty large. These people also had jobs and expendable money. When jobs starting leaving rooms started closing and the entertainment factor lulled us into thinking it was an entertainment issue. Then the COM brought a surge as Pool was going down exacerbated by video games etc. Pool is a participation game/sport. Its not very entertaining, never was. I can't stand to watch for long unless I've had a few drinks and don't intend on going anywhere. 10 to 1 I'd rather be playing One Pocket.
When a player, its a riveting game as a spectator not so much. We need players not spectators because the players are the only spectators.

So I watched the semi-final of the US open, Kaci vs. Ruiz...Now, before I say anything else, I consider myself to be someone not easily bored! ut I couldn't for the life of me stay awake during a US OPEN SEMI FINAL! I mean, what's the purpose of a shot clock when players overrun it on EVERY SHOT, even a 2 foot hanger?! 40 bleedin' seconds on that shot! I have seen a lot of f-ed up things, and I've sat through some snoozefests, but this really was something else. For the first time in my life I had to seriously ask myself "What sort of person watches this?", and I didn't like the answers..I think they have to legalize drugs here before I watch another match like that.

And Mark Wilson...I know you Americans love him to death, but he could put a charging Rhino to sleep in less than 3 paces! Diliberto I can put up with. I feel like I know him, having listened to his commentary for so many years. He makes mistakes, but somehow it makes him even more likeable. I don't know how he does it, lol. Even that factor couldn't save this.

Something has to change in the pool world IMO. 9-ball just doesn't cut it anymore as a pro sport, unless the equipment changes dramatically. You can argue that it was never a proper pro sport to begin with, and IMO you would be right. It's a bloody disgrace to have to play this game to determine who the best player in the country is! Can you imagine 9 ball being the standard measure of pool skills? Mosconi must be spinning in his game at 900 rpm! At it's absolute best it's a decent gambling game. Now it has become a cheaters haven with almost all of the attention being put on racking and referee decisions rather than the play (that should tell you something), and recently it has somehow gotten so boring, that even a one pocket wedge game could give it competition. Who cares how high the level of play gets if even hardcore players can't stand to watch it? I mean the world pool championship is being held in empty hangars in the freakin' desert and still even the people playing won't watch the matches! If it gets any more boring the next place it will be held is in the Antarctic. Can we AT LEAST agree to put a 30 second shot clock that is actually being enforced on the late tournament games? That way the agony will at least be shortened.

 

[Island Drive]

I assume I'm in the minority here but I don't think 40 seconds is a long time to wait for someone to shoot at all. I didn't find the matches boring--I wish some of them were closer--but I didn't find them boring.

Kaci was not the norm....by a long shot. He's 18 yr old from a war torn country. His play was extremely consistent. When he reached the finals he was mentally worn out and was on up/down/walk around auto pilot. Amazing talent and demeanor for someone so young.

 

[Swighey]

Shot clocks? Unnecessary. Players taking their time to make decisions is part of the drama of the game. It happens so rarely that the argument that is an issue is redundant. I 100% get the argument that quick play is desirable to catch the channel hopper who has taken an interest In a televised game of pool, but I don't for a second buy the argument that serious pool players and fans of the game actually want that drama taken out of the game. I've been sitting there waiting for my opponent to make a decision and thinking "there's only one shot, play the fking shot" but I'd rather let it get to him than force him to play the no brainer shot by having a shot clock.

A slow plodding player? That's where the referee comes in - and if a tournament of the calibre of the US Open doesn't have a referee then what use is a shot clock?

If it's broken, fix it. And if it's not broken, improve it.

 

[Icon of Sin]

:rotflmao1:

Watching it with a bit of the ol' Ludwig van and some eye drops.

Next time try it with a bit of the ol' in out in out... :grin-square:

 

[vjmehra]

I think maybe Chinese 8-Ball is missing a trick here, there seems to be a great opportunity to promote a unified style of pool, which is the only way it can gain exposure and compete with the likes of snooker and other non-cue sports.

Given that China aren't afraid to undercut rivals on cost, why not start producing 7ft Chinese tables?

In the UK we have 7ft English tables, over in the US you have 7ft bar tables everywhere (judging from the comments on here), so imagine if the Chinese promoters undercut the replacement costs?

That way at least everyone is playing 8-Ball on the same type of table (yes the pro's would still play on 9-foot tables, but at least there would be a Global standard of sorts).

Oh and not sure if its the same over in the US, but you can now qualify for one of the large Chinese 8-Ball tournaments via qualifiers in the UK (I presume you have something similar), its a smart move as you don't need to spend anything unless you qualify (and then your expenses are covered as part of the prize fund for winning the qualifier), not sure who promotes it, but I think they may be onto something (and could really dominate if they could get their tables in more bars).

That said, ignoring anything to do with Chinese pool, 10-Ball is to slow (great game, but one for the purists not casual fans) and for that reason 9-Ball with a shot clock is the only viable option, it works for the 'show events' run by Matchroom and keeps the games running to a schedule (within reason), which is essential for any sport that wants to gain tv exposure.

To those who say its not possible for it to become a spectator sport...I'm not sure thats true...its just not easy, snooker has sort of done it, the (claimed) viewing figures from China and the UK are in the multi-millions, whilst actual attendance in person is minimal (even the Crucible only holds circa 2k).

The darts model is slightly different, they pack out an exhibition hall at Alexandra Palace with about 2.5k people and have large screens, so you don't need to be close to the action...there's noise and plenty of drinking, maybe that is a better model for 9-Ball?

 

[cashin]

I agree completely. I went to 26 US. Opens in a row until it was becoming a little redundant and a lot of the players I grew up watching and loving to watch retired. Having said that now that the players don't have to worry about getting paid and the competition is so close in ability I thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially watching the shot making ability of Jason Shaw and Joshua Filler. Great Job Pat Fleming and Jim Fredericks... AWESOME!!!

I liked it. Paid for it, watched it, loved every second.
Was appalled at Big Ko's treatment, but otherwise, that was some good s(*&.
Danny's too old, but his voice is gold, and I love his wallet shtick. Mark is great, don't know what anyone is talking about.
Field was insane, level of play was insane, etc.
I mean, it ain't no derby city, but man was that awesome.

 

[td873]

This aint hard. Pool is for Pool players.

Back I Mosconi and Fats day there were only 3 channels of black and white TV, you watched what was presented, now you watch what you want on over 500 channel options.

Back in there day it was no X Games, PlayStation, Xbox, MP3, etc, ect ect.., its an up hill battle..., maybe a Really good movie, not about Pool, just one where the Pool is a big part of the story?

IMO, I think this conclusion is misguided in a number of ways, but one striking mis-assumpution is that somehow other "TV" is cannibalizing pool viewership. As a gating, issue, there isn't a pool viewing audience to speak of that X Games, Xbox, whatever, could even steal. And, if "variety" was an issue, then football, baseball, etc., would be suffering, which they aren't. Also, any argument that viewers are somehow tied to participation is a fallacy because pool actually has one of the highest participation rates in the country - way more than football, baseball, and basketball, all of which have large viewing audiences. And, of course, it can't be true that the existence of too many other sports causes lack of pool on TV because snooker is widely televised today in the UK, and the same variety exists.

And, pools doesn't have to be just for pool players. The general public, the key target audience to attract sponsors, watch sports to be a part of something bigger. They don't watch TV to learn how to play better or see who gets Mosconi points.

Put differently, pool isn't popular because there are no superstars. If anyone [naively] thinks differently, consider this: if you had a pool match between Jeff Gordon and Kyle Busch, it would be picked up by national TV and would have way more viewers than any pool event in history. Same thing if you got Michael Jordan to play Shaq. Or Taylor Swift against Bruno Mars. The point is, people don't want to watch joe shmoe play pool. They want to watch someone famous. Pool needs a standard bearer. That's what Mosconi and Fats did. They didn't monopolize 3 channels to improve pool's image. They used their image to improve pool's visibility.


-td [Again, just my $0.02, but probably worth less than that]

 

[HUKIT]

My $0.02. It's not the game or the shot clock or the rules or whatever. It's the lack of flashy talent. We have no "king" of pool.

Golf is terribly slow, but when you have a Tiger making the game exciting - people watch. Snooker can be hard to watch, unless Ronnie is playing. They might score one goal in an entire soccer game - but get a Messi or Ronaldo and it's exciting. On the other end of the spectrum, everybody scores in basketball, but get a Lebron and stadiums are filled.

We don't need another game. Or a way to entertain the lowest common denominator. If we had a Michael Jordan of pool, the stands will be filled in a one pocket tourney. We've got a bunch of good players, but no one the general public could identify.

I bet if you asked 100 random people on the street, *maybe* 10 people could even name a single pool player, and if they did, it would probably be Mosconi or Minnesota Fats -- both popular over 4 decades ago...

-td

I have to admit I'm a little ADD but I was kinda bored watching the Open this year. I don't know if if every current generation is fascinated with the previous one as I am but I love old pool stories and the players of old like Mosconi and Cornbread Red. While I admire the young current stars of pool for their talent there is no specific person that I can honestly say makes me want to watch for "them" but rather the love of the game itself. This is pretty much how I am, LOL.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I must be sick because I still enjoy watching good pool being played. Over the last few decades I've watched a lot of great matches before packed houses in smaller arenas (250-500 people) and no one stirred while a player was shooting, and no one left until the match was over. I can't tell you how many tournaments I've attended (almost all 9-Ball) where there was not a seat to be found and it was standing room only. We had as many as 1,500 in attendance at the original L.A. Opens in the 90's. The Bicycle Club events also had turn away crowds where the fire marshals had to say no one else can come in.

Pool needs to be marketed in the right areas where there is a large base of pool fans, and create an exciting product for them to see. Only then will you attract a decent sized audience. Look what Matchroom has done with the Mosconi Cup, a sell out year after year.

Will we ever see large audiences of thousands, I don't know? It is what it is, a niche sport that has appeal to a certain fan base, who will support quality events. It doesn't mean the game is flawed because 10,000 people don't want to watch it live. It just means there are fewer hard core fans who appreciate the skills required to play at the highest level.

I also am dismayed at the lack of quality tournaments in the USA currently. We had anywhere from ten to twelve major events here at one time and they were paying as big or bigger money then the current crop of tournaments. There are a variety of reasons why many of these events went away; usually due to conflicting schedules, a lack of organization and petty squabbling between different entities who wanted to control professional pool.

Personally, I produced two immensely popular (and very lucrative for the players) L.A. Opens in the early 1990's, only to see the men's association boycott the second one and put me out of business. Seeing my "friends" turn against me was a major disappointment and caused me to have second thoughts about ever doing it again. I pretty much kept my wallet closed after that and only got involved in smaller scale events. I think there are quite a few others that will tell similar stories about the road blocks they encountered in trying to put on a major pool tournament, both from the players themselves and the associations they belonged to.

All that said, I remain a pool fan and continue to support the game in a variety of ways. The pool world is full of people like me who love the game and enjoy watching the best players compete. Lamenting the lack of tournaments and larger purses does nothing to help the situation. Supporting the tournaments we do have and contributing to the growth of the game in some way is a much more positive response.

Young people start playing pool for the sheer love of the game, and thoughts of making a living at it are secondary. Their bottom line is not about making money, but about the challenge of playing arguably the greatest game man ever invented. For that reason, pool will never go away. It will continue to attract sports minded youth as long as they can find a table, a set of balls and a cue stick. As we all know, it has an attraction that can hold you for a lifetime. That's good enough for me.

Jay, here is some food for thought - Lame? So awhile back after reading countless threads about how pool is dead / dying, how there a hardly any tournies for the pros to play ( or anyone from that matter ) etc .I actually started wondering how bad was it and started paying more attention to advertised tournaments , the big ones, midsized , and the smaller ones. What I came to realize is there are actually a hell of lot of tournaments. Now I'm not saying there's always a ton of money to be had but there are a ton of them. Now with the cost of living as well as road expenses make it near impossible for a pro to earn a living, that's a separate issue all together. There's also way more than enough local / regional events to keep the hobbyist plenty busy. The caveat to this is while there's tons of events, their location for the most part are extremely random. If there were to be a real sanctioning body and everyone coordinated on dates and locations making them close enough together and scheduled to whee it makes sense there could be a " pro tour " literally tomorrow!

So that aside, it's back to the same ole issue - money and lack of it due to no real corporate sponsorship because of no ROI. I honestly be I've this doesn't have to be the case though, IF you had someone that knew what they were doing and we're committed. There a tons of leagues, league players, host bars, etc that there's truly a most untapped market. While for sure not every single league player would be interested in watching pros either in person or on TV, I'd bet there are plenty that would if they knew about it and it was packaged and sold correctly. Many league players take league very serious. Obviously they can't run adds for the tobacco companies but I believe alcohol is still ok??? Not to mention theres a plethora of products / companies that can market countless everyday items to them just like all the ads that are all over TV all day everyday. The format is the key to all of this and so far no one has figured it out but that doesn't mean it can't be done - just need someone that knows what they are doing as a totally committed salesman / marketer. Also need to realize it will not happen overnight but wouldn't take forever either.

I don't think it necessarily needs to be TV either. Stream would be OK ( as that's where TV is ultimately headed soon anyway ). Imo, one of the biggest things that hold streams back is the poor quality often occurring. Freezing, poor commentary, lack of cinematography. The line from Seinfeld that comes to mind is " so if it's a show about nothing why will people watch it? They'll watch it because it's on TV ".

 

[Brookeland Bill]

IMHO. I think Jeremy Jones is one of the better commentators.

I listened to a match where a guy named Box was one of the announcers. What a self absorbed arrogant know-it-all. All he did was talk over the co-announcer. Shameless boor.

 

[jasonlaus]

Shot clocks? Unnecessary. Players taking their time to make decisions is part of the drama of the game. It happens so rarely that the argument that is an issue is redundant. I 100% get the argument that quick play is desirable to catch the channel hopper who has taken an interest In a televised game of pool, but I don't for a second buy the argument that serious pool players and fans of the game actually want that drama taken out of the game. I've been sitting there waiting for my opponent to make a decision and thinking "there's only one shot, play the fking shot" but I'd rather let it get to him than force him to play the no brainer shot by having a shot clock.

A slow plodding player? That's where the referee comes in - and if a tournament of the calibre of the US Open doesn't have a referee then what use is a shot clock?

If it's broken, fix it. And if it's not broken, improve it.

I had Kaci @ 25 to 1, guess how many of his matches I watched - ZERO! I wouldn't watch Pinegar either, it's horrible and disrespectful, especially to the players who had 10:30 matches that didn't get started till after midnight.

I don't have a problem betting on him, I have a problem watching him.
Everybody should have know this going in. If they didn't, by those guys 2nd matches you should have. Watching Cuescore gave that info away.
There's a reason for a shot clock and in some cases ^^^^^ it should be shortened. IMHO
Great player, thats for sure
Jason

 

[WildWing]

Shot clocks? Unnecessary.

A slow plodding player? That's where the referee comes in

Unfortunately, that doesn't work. A big name player will always be given a break by the referee, whereas, slow play would be often called on a no-name player. Referee's discretion is pretty much hogwash. There's too much personal feeling involved.

All the best,
WW

 

[JC]

Every sport is lame.
Nfl has a bunch of convicts giving each other c.t.e.
Baseball and hockey have about a bazzillion games
(Who can follow all that?)
Tennis, golf, car racing, boring is an understatement.
Ufc and boxing where you can watch bloody fist fights
Have piss poor viewership outside of a few events per year/ decade.
Pool is an even more obscure, niche hobby than all of those.
If you like it watch it.
If you dont who gaf.
Not every player plays earl, shaw, and dragos pace.

Slow players should be put on boxcars.

I can see you don't agree

Your avatar says it all.

JC