I don't like the magic rack. It interferes with the path of the balls. The solution (at least for pros) is to have a neutral person racking.
Seriously..that non-rack rack?
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As for the break in eight ball, if you make a stripe, shoot a stripe, if you make a solid shoot a solid, if you make a stripe and a solid, then open table. The reason for the Open Table concept is to move along tournament play along and this is Politically incorrect for the game but the tournaments have created this aspect of play for them alone. As for a tight rack, it's important. Alternate breaks and it becomes fair. Personally I prefer all games to start off having a safe break like, straight pool, one pocket and full rack banks. I prefer playing ten ball using a safe break, dumping whitey down towards the foot rail hitting the side rail first.
Why are we starting every rack of the skilled game of Eight-Ball with a slop shot?
I have been around this game a very long time. It is a slop shot for everyone. Get rid of it.
All you folks that stress over the frozen rack and are all hung up on these gadgets are making this way too complicated. It is so simple. Shoot what you break. Problem solved and everyone will like it! Finished! Done!
I have been around this game a very long time. It is a slop shot for everyone. Get rid of it.
All you folks that stress over the frozen rack and are all hung up on these gadgets are making this way too complicated. It is so simple. Shoot what you break. Problem solved and everyone will like it! Finished! Done!
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Evolution
The Magic Rack is part of the game's evolution. Nothing stays the same. That's why we don't play on tables with wooden beds anymore, use balls made of ivory. Our cues are balanced and think of the technology in the shafts of today. What would the game be like if nothing had changed since its origination? Games and sports evolve over time just like anything else. Parts of that evolution are concepts and ideas which fail but lead to bigger and better improvements. The Magic Rack is definitely a giant step in positive evolution of the game of pool. From my experience, and from observations of players in this city, the majority of us prefer it. For this reason I believe that the Magic Rack or some facsimile thereof, will eventually make drastic improvements in the game.
The Magic Rack is part of the game's evolution. Nothing stays the same. That's why we don't play on tables with wooden beds anymore, use balls made of ivory. Our cues are balanced and think of the technology in the shafts of today. What would the game be like if nothing had changed since its origination? Games and sports evolve over time just like anything else. Parts of that evolution are concepts and ideas which fail but lead to bigger and better improvements. The Magic Rack is definitely a giant step in positive evolution of the game of pool. From my experience, and from observations of players in this city, the majority of us prefer it. For this reason I believe that the Magic Rack or some facsimile thereof, will eventually make drastic improvements in the game.
Paul:
You are very inconsistent in your stance, except when it suits you. You advocate "getting rid of the slop shot" (i.e. the necessity to make a ball on the break to maintain ownership of the table), yet you also rail against call-shot itself (i.e. the call-shot requirement in 10-ball). This is either a double standard, or you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
You have even called straight pool "a dead game that is a complete non-issue in today's pool world." Now that really pulls the floor boards out from underneath your stance.
You don't see this?
-Sean
This is how you ask me a question? You will not get answered.
I get the take what you make..why not do away with ball in hand too..
Leave the ball contect an rail rule..either shoot it where it sits,or drag it
to the kitchen.
Eight on the break is a win,scratch is a lose.
Or we just play by the rules we have now,quit all the nit picking,
Not saying your nit picking.
If I remember correctly... you want players to break, then shoot whether they made anything or not. Let's say players accept that.
Players will STILL will demand 'gadgets' like the MBR because they want a good spread. A simple plastic triangle will not get the job done, gaps in the rack will leave balls clustered and make the table less runnable.
So pros will still demand magic racks because they produce better spreads. And they will check those racks, and fuss over them if the break doesn't go their way.
There is no "Everybody will be happy" when you have professionals playing for serious money. They will demand perfection in the rack, the balls, and the table. The only way to remove rack complaints is to remove the break entirely.
You are making some assumptions without seeing these rules played. I have a lot of experience here. I can clue you in. I have run 11 regional events with over 10,000 breaks (also an additional 400,000 breaks locally). My events have included a number of players that play in the DCC and the US Open. The players "get it" quickly. They rack their own. Because the "wired ball" is taken out of play, they readily accept the imperfect rack. They waste no time.
You would then ask "Why not get the perfect rack with the gadget if you can get it?" The answer is simple. The templates invite another form of cheating: pattern racking. Pattern racking is an enormous problem. The balls can easily be random racked with the standard triangle.
I don't just think this stuff up. I do it. It works so I encourage others to do it. It's good for pool.
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Pattern racking is a definite problem with the magic rack since the wing ball is dead regardless of speed or spin most of the time... The Accu-Rack System is based on different geometry, force vectors and materials...
There are no wired balls because of it's short comings... If you know how to break and can execute your break you can learn to make balls but if you over hit it, under hit it... Hit it off center, or get unwanted side spin on it your make percentages go straight out the window....
I have seen the MBR make B players look like pros and no pro I have ever talked to has ever had anything good to say about it's use... They originally said it might be ok for 10ball but the tune was changed once they learned to make the balls behind the 1 in the sides with great consistency.... We won't discuss what was said in New Jersey regarding the 8ball version this week...
I spoke with Souquet at length over dinner at the Master's in March of 2011 about the MBR and all of the other options out there including the slug doctor which he said was from Japan... I found out the Japanese product was the Racktight system and distributorship resides with Grace McNamara, I think spelled her last name right.. Apparently the racktight has been around way before the idea was smuggled across the pond and turned into the slug doctor....
After discussing all of the systems and flaws associated with them I started work on new designs... I have 9ball, 10ball and 8ball templates completed and tested....
I am in favor of rack your own the old fashioned way but too many tournaments are held up because of shenanigans... I hope my templates will provide a rack that even the pros can use because it punishes mistakes.....
I don't think I will ever like the idea of rewarding a player with a shot after the break with another shot when they fail to pocket anything.... I think a similar idea is used in youth soccer now... They don't keep score and everyone goes home with trophies......
There are no wired balls because of it's short comings... If you know how to break and can execute your break you can learn to make balls but if you over hit it, under hit it... Hit it off center, or get unwanted side spin on it your make percentages go straight out the window....
I have seen the MBR make B players look like pros and no pro I have ever talked to has ever had anything good to say about it's use... They originally said it might be ok for 10ball but the tune was changed once they learned to make the balls behind the 1 in the sides with great consistency.... We won't discuss what was said in New Jersey regarding the 8ball version this week...
I spoke with Souquet at length over dinner at the Master's in March of 2011 about the MBR and all of the other options out there including the slug doctor which he said was from Japan... I found out the Japanese product was the Racktight system and distributorship resides with Grace McNamara, I think spelled her last name right.. Apparently the racktight has been around way before the idea was smuggled across the pond and turned into the slug doctor....
After discussing all of the systems and flaws associated with them I started work on new designs... I have 9ball, 10ball and 8ball templates completed and tested....
I am in favor of rack your own the old fashioned way but too many tournaments are held up because of shenanigans... I hope my templates will provide a rack that even the pros can use because it punishes mistakes.....
I don't think I will ever like the idea of rewarding a player with a shot after the break with another shot when they fail to pocket anything.... I think a similar idea is used in youth soccer now... They don't keep score and everyone goes home with trophies......
I would agree with you if making a ball on the break was something special. The ball on the break is either slopped in or wired in. When you make a ball on the break, you have not done anything worth rewarding. A good break is when you control the cue ball and the 1-ball and get a good spread. My rules reward a good break and punish a bad break. The trophy analogy does not apply.
When Ralf won everything under the sun he had devoted himself to learning to break the balls better... He spent a month doing nothing but working on the break... every day all day long.... Shane works on his break for hours every day....
I have put in more than a few 8 hour days doing nothing but breaking and I am not even a pro.... I learned how to break the balls... I learned to control the rock and the 1ball...
Breaking is a skill set... It is learned... I understand some people don't and cannot get it... Most in that camp are from the old school of hit em hard and hope... If you think it's a slop shot I only need to advise you to buy and watch the Joe Tucker videos...
If anyone does that and still holds on to the old fashioned notions of the break being a random event all I can do is write them off as unable or unwilling to learn something new.......
Ask Danny D how many championships he would have won if he had owned a break... Then ask him if he worked on it.... He will tell you he didn't... Most of the straight pool players never worked on the 9ball break... In the south where the bar box was king everyone worked on it and worked on it hard......
I have put in more than a few 8 hour days doing nothing but breaking and I am not even a pro.... I learned how to break the balls... I learned to control the rock and the 1ball...
Breaking is a skill set... It is learned... I understand some people don't and cannot get it... Most in that camp are from the old school of hit em hard and hope... If you think it's a slop shot I only need to advise you to buy and watch the Joe Tucker videos...
If anyone does that and still holds on to the old fashioned notions of the break being a random event all I can do is write them off as unable or unwilling to learn something new.......
Ask Danny D how many championships he would have won if he had owned a break... Then ask him if he worked on it.... He will tell you he didn't... Most of the straight pool players never worked on the 9ball break... In the south where the bar box was king everyone worked on it and worked on it hard......
You got it! You have stated exactly what should be rewarded.
I was just watching the Souquet/Dechaine match from day 2 of the Mosconi Cup. The commentators were saying they used the Magic Rack on day one; the balls weren't breaking good and apparently there were some problems racking so they switched to the Delta rack on day 2 and the balls were breaking better.
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I used to play 8 ball with a guy who had a stronger break than me. He went along with my stipulation that the breaker continues shooting after he breaks, but the cue ball is frozen on the middle diamond on the short rail in the kitchen. That's the only way I could play him.
Someone had mentioned earlier about The Slug Doctor template...
Fwiw, this is of Aug 11, 2012 23:04:17 PDT
The Slug-Doctor has been discontinued at this time. Sorry for the inconvenience. Best Regards, Abe Slug-Doctor.com
Slug-Doctor Tight Rack
Item #: SD-X
Slug-Doctor Tight Rack System: 9-Ball/10-Ball ONLY $24.95 USD 1 $24.95 USD
Fwiw, this is of Aug 11, 2012 23:04:17 PDT
The Slug-Doctor has been discontinued at this time. Sorry for the inconvenience. Best Regards, Abe Slug-Doctor.com
Slug-Doctor Tight Rack
Item #: SD-X
Slug-Doctor Tight Rack System: 9-Ball/10-Ball ONLY $24.95 USD 1 $24.95 USD
So... it doesn't work as well as the MBR, but that's on purpose... so you can weed out the B players?
Let me just get out my credit card now, where do I sign up??
Sorry man, I'm laughing.
Ah yes, Paul, perfect way to weasel out. Yes, this is the way I ask you a question, because you've proven in the past to do the "huge snip" thing when you're confronted with an inconsistency in your approach.
No matter though; since you're not going to answer, nothing's changed -- status quo. Your inconsistency is preserved.
-Sean
Actually it works better than the MBR... Making a ball dead because of design and material choices is setting up a trick shot.... These are new geometry and material choices...
If you consider punishing a player for not hitting the rack properly and rewarding them when they do to be weeding out B players I don't follow...
Most players want a rack where they don't have to worry about gaps or someone putting the rack to them.... They essentially want a fair shake.... They want a consistent rack without the monkey business...
How is a wired ball really any different than a slug? You should get neither every time as a general rule.. Results should be performance based.
With the MBR you might as well adapt a shoot after not making a ball rule as has been suggested...