setting cue ball in motion

N

nrhoades

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1. Point on the surface of the cue ball.
2. Angle and pitch of impact vector.
3. Velocity of impact vector.

Curious... does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? What is YOUR opinion?

EDIT:

Thanks guys... from the discussion so far we've identified the four dominant components that a player can modulate (at shot time) that have the most influence on cue ball trajectory. These are:

1) tip position
2) tip angle/pitch
3) velocity
4) bridge length

If you shoot the same shot, with the same bridge length and similar velocity, it is the tip position and angle/pitch that will most influence the cue ball trajectory.

So, would you agree that precision of #1 and #2 is the absolute most important part of pool shotmaking consistency, above all else? Would you agree that all the effort of good fundementals leads to simply, precise spatial delivery of the tip?

If you don't agree, why?
 
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You also need the mass of the "impact vector". Velocity alone won't give you the complete story.
 
nrhoades said:
1. Point on the surface of the cue ball.
2. Angle and pitch of impact vector.
3. Velocity of impact vector.

Curious... does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? What is YOUR opinion?
Click to expand...

You may put all those things in scientific terms, but you can't describe what people like Efren do to the cue ball with math :D

I wonder if they programmed a computer like Deep Blue to play pool if it will be able to play with artistic ability or just play pin point shape.
 
nrhoades said:
1. Point on the surface of the cue ball.
2. Angle and pitch of impact vector.
3. Velocity of impact vector.

Curious... does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? What is YOUR opinion?
Click to expand...

Duh, the cue putts it in motion.
 
does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? What is YOUR opinion?[/QUOTE]

let's see ... a player with a cue or broom or whatever strikes the cue ball. i believe that would set "the cueball in motion."
 
it's all about the mass of the ass and the angle of the dangle!!!

Stop dissecting everything down into tiny details and just shoot the dam ball. If the shot doesn't go in the hole ............ make an adjustment and shoot it again. Keep trying until you can make it..........

Then practice

LOL

KIm
 
Good, that's right, mass is important. But lets limit it to things that. the player can change, assuming he doesn't switch cues every shot lol.
 
There are three things we can do to the cue ball:
Angle
Speed
Spin

All we really control is the cue stick.

randyg
 
nrhoades said:
... Curious... does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? ...
Click to expand...
For shots where the cue ball is close to the object ball the rate of deceleration of the cue stick is also important. For a given stick, table, and cue ball, I can't think of anything else that's important. Full masse shots may be an exception.
 
whammo57 said:
... Stop dissecting everything down into tiny details and just shoot the dam ball. I ...
Click to expand...
Some of us like to try to understand what's going on at the table. Is it OK for us to talk about that stuff among ourselves? Some of those who like to understand also like to play, which is a related but somewhat separate activity.
 
nrhoades said:
1. Point on the surface of the cue ball.
2. Angle and pitch of impact vector.
3. Velocity of impact vector.

Curious... does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? What is YOUR opinion?
Click to expand...

My opinion - you're asking a galilean physics question - we all believe we know the difference between motion and rest but really there is no real difference. It's all perception of movement.

What is the smallest amount of movement we can perceive? Does the cue ball ever stop moving? I don't think so but I'm not going to call a foul without an electron microscope.

Physics does not give answers to "cause" or "why". Newton probably can answer it the best.

So if the your real question is, why does the cue ball move? ...because I want it to.
 
hang-the-9 said:
You may put all those things in scientific terms, but you can't describe what people like Efren do to the cue ball with math :D

I wonder if they programmed a computer like Deep Blue to play pool if it will be able to play with artistic ability or just play pin point shape.
Click to expand...

Virtual Pool can already do pretty much everything Efren can do at the table (which means that after the fact, any shot can be explained and duplicated) but it is less good at coming up with the shots beforehand. But the amount of additional programming that would be required to invent stuff (given the simulation engine already available with VP) is small compared to the effort behind Deep Blue.
 
nrhoades said:
1. Point on the surface of the cue ball.
2. Angle and pitch of impact vector.
3. Velocity of impact vector.

Curious... does anybody believe that there is anything OTHER than these three responsible for setting the cue ball in motion?

What are they? What is YOUR opinion?
Click to expand...

Seems like there are three or four things. Or two.

Mass
CoR Tip
Chalk
Tip Surface (which may or may not be related to CoR or Chalk)

Since you open the door for Pitch,then cloth and bed are considerations in major ways in the fantasy world and minute ways in normal world.

Freddie <~~~ what does "setting the cue ball in motion" mean
 
Coefficient of friction of tip to ball

Elasticity of tip restitution big as seen by modern tips

Also collision length of time this is arguable but i believe it is controlled or affected by the players stroke and also by the shafts ability to absorb and/or return energy back great players make the tip time work for the shot they need i have no direct proof here so its arguable

Mass of the tip protruding past the bridge example there is local room with a very heavy tip trick cue anything off center and there is massive deflection of the cb

That is a start....

I reckon the cloth both the natural resistance and also humidity will have another large effect also cloth cleanliness
 
TCo said:
... So if the your real question is, why does the cue ball move? ...because I want it to.
Click to expand...
No. It is because the gods breathe upon it, as the Jockaira have taught us. (obscure science fiction reference to one of the Lazarus Long stories)
 
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I'm guessing where you're going with this is -
Some people believe the damnedest things about what makes the cue ball do what it does.

"Extra follow through makes it travel further"
"Turn the tip sideways at the end for extra sidespin"
"Snap the tip downward at the end for bonus draw"
"With the right brand of chalk, deflection goes away and you can spin the ball more accurately"
"The inlays are gonna affect the hit"
"With a different butt you'd have more precise draw"

and so on.
 
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