shaft consruction question

Varney Cues said:
I also wanted to expand briefly on my experiment on adding weight behind the ferrule like Harvey Martin....some of you may want to experiment yourself. I did find that it broke the balls incredible....really an added element of POP to the break. While it hit terrible and I deemed it worthless on a playing shaft...I was quite excited after breaking the balls. Until....I tried to jump a ball with that shaft on my j/b. Good grief...it wouldn't get the ball up at all...not in the slightest...absolutely worthless on a j/b cue. It may very well have some merit on a break only cue that would never be used to attemp a jump shot. Just my 2 cents. :)
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I've found exactly the opposite to be true. A weighted ferrule on a jump shaft will bring the ball up almost effortlessly. Deflection is your friend when jumping. Try to jump a ball with a low-deflection shaft..... the more it deflects the better it will jump.
 
Varney Cues said:
....laminated shafts will become the standard in the very near future as we simply run out of quality shaftwood.
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I can only hope everyone believes this and all will only be buying lams very soon............
 
Sheldon said:
I've found exactly the opposite to be true. A weighted ferrule on a jump shaft will bring the ball up almost effortlessly. Deflection is your friend when jumping. Try to jump a ball with a low-deflection shaft..... the more it deflects the better it will jump.
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I guess maybe part of it is exactly how much weight you use. I had 1oz in the shaft behind the ferrule. It simply wouldn't jump at all. True...I wouldn't want the front end of my shaft hollow on a jump cue either.
5+oz 14mm flat lam shafts are the complete nuts for a jump cue....just don't add an ounce of weight behind the ferrule.;)
 
Lams

BLACKHEARTCUES said:
There is an advantage to laminated shafts, but it may not be what you are looking for. We are cutting down Maple trees, as fast as they can grow. Couple that with the fact the global warming has caused trees to grow faster than they used to. Laminated shafts are the way of the future (in my opinoin). Vertually all of the laminated shafts are useable as apossed to 30 % of solid Maple shaft blanks. YES there is an advantage...JER
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Jer I don't know about you but when I started playing with a radial lam shaft I had no control. Too much spin. It took me almost 6 munths to really get an idea where the ball was going.
As to the trees. Someone will come up with a cross breed of tree soon that will make maples grow with 20rpi in half the time. Still al long time but who said cues were built overnight..
John
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
There is an advantage to laminated shafts, but it may not be what you are looking for. We are cutting down Maple trees, as fast as they can grow. Couple that with the fact the global warming has caused trees to grow faster than they used to. Laminated shafts are the way of the future (in my opinoin). Vertually all of the laminated shafts are useable as apossed to 30 % of solid Maple shaft blanks. YES there is an advantage...JER
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i wouldnt even consider a 1 piece over a radial laminate if they werent near half the price. and if 90% of radial laminate blanks are usable compared to 30% solid maple blanks, and the only real benifit is enviormental, then what exactly is the justification for them being more expensive? is it really that much more labor intensive to create the laminate blanks? if the percentages are acruate, ouldnt it make more sense from a supply/demand perspective for solid shafts to be more expensive?

note: again, i'm only refering to the blanks that then are turned into solid shafts. not the mass produced specialty market LD shafts such as predator or OB1.

http://www.poolndarts.com/58-Professional-Cue-Repair-Extra-Shafts/
http://www.dominiakcues.com/index.html
 
If you want a new shaft, and are using a regular shaft now, find someone with a nice old Joss shaft and you won't find a better hit.
 
hang-the-9 said:
If you want a new shaft, and are using a regular shaft now, find someone with a nice old Joss shaft and you won't find a better hit.
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actually i'm not using any shaft right now, my original joss shaft picked up a sever warp. besides, that 13.25mm tip size is way to big anyway.

my main issue is i'm a bit of a perfectionist and have to have a flush fitting joint. i cannt play with a cue that has any joint overlap of shaft to butt or vice verse.

my joss is a rare implex jointed one that has an unordinarily large joint measuring .865". i've tried buying after market shafts, predator, ob1, meucci black dot, and they have all come in around .85" at the joint causing that lip that i just cannt stand.

so i figure the only way i'm going to be able to get one flush, is to have it cutom fitted. and then so begins the decision process of narrowing down things like shaft brand, construction, measurments, etc... to buy and who to go with to perform the work.
 
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socks said:
actually i'm not using any shaft right now, my original joss shaft picked up a sever warp. besides, that 13.25mm tip size is way to big anyway.

my main issue is i'm a bit of a perfectionist and have to have a flush fitting joint. i cannt play with a cue that has any joint overlap of shaft to butt or vice verse.

my joss is a rare implex jointed one that has an unordinarily large joint measuring .865". i've tried buying after market shafts, predator, ob1, meucci black dot, and they have all come in around .85" at the joint causing that lip that i just cannt stand.

so i figure the only way i'm going to be able to get one flush, is to have it cutom fitted. and then so begins the decision process of narrowing down things like shaft brand, construction, measurments, etc... to buy and who to go with to perform the work.
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Find a cuemaker to make a shaft for you, they can probably re-use the same collar off the old shaft to match. The key I guess would be to find the right grain and density of wood to use, but I'm sure they can help you out. I tried several Predators and an OB1 on my Joss, and none have the same hit as the stock shaft. With the OB1 I also missed a lot of longish cut shots, which annoyed me more than anything else.
 
socks said:
actually i'm not using any shaft right now, my original joss shaft picked up a sever warp. besides, that 13.25mm tip size is way to big anyway.

my main issue is i'm a bit of a perfectionist and have to have a flush fitting joint. i cannt play with a cue that has any joint overlap of shaft to butt or vice verse.

my joss is a rare implex jointed one that has an unordinarily large joint measuring .865". i've tried buying after market shafts, predator, ob1, meucci black dot, and they have all come in around .85" at the joint causing that lip that i just cannt stand.

so i figure the only way i'm going to be able to get one flush, is to have it cutom fitted. and then so begins the decision process of narrowing down things like shaft brand, construction, measurments, etc... to buy and who to go with to perform the work.
Click to expand...
Why not order a Joss shaft then have the front 16" retapered?
 
hang-the-9 said:
Find a cuemaker to make a shaft for you, they can probably re-use the same collar off the old shaft to match. The key I guess would be to find the right grain and density of wood to use, but I'm sure they can help you out. I tried several Predators and an OB1 on my Joss, and none have the same hit as the stock shaft. With the OB1 I also missed a lot of longish cut shots, which annoyed me more than anything else.
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theres no reason to reuse the old collar, joss use a solid black collar anyway, it would be pointless and more trouble than it would be worth.
i experianced the same problem with ob1. love the quite low feedback feal, but the throw it imparted to the object ball seemed huge and i couldnt make a cut shot to save my life.

poolplayer2093 said:
are you talking about the blanks? they come in .85?
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again, i'm not talking about predator or ob1. thier blanks come in .88" thier finished product shafts with collar and insert that you buy off the internet from ozone or seyberts or take your pick, come pre cut to around .85" at the joint, but again, i am not looking for or inquiring about predator or ob1 or tigerx or mezz or mcdermott or whatever name brand premade shafts because i have tried them, thier stock configurtion is too small for my cue that has a joint of .865" and i dont see any reason or benifit to pay $250 to have one of those blanks matched to my cue when the benifit does not justify the price.

i am inquiring about custom fitted custom cut from square block of wood or laminated dowel shafts.

JoeyInCali said:
Why not order a Joss shaft then have the front 16" retapered?
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the joss shafts that i have screwed on from friends cues, i've tried 5, are all around the same .85" at the joint that dont fit my cue as all the mass produced LD shafts i've tried also. It is certainly a pickle.


But none of the above has anything to do with the original question of any real benifit of radial laminate to 1 piece other than enviromental.

So let me try and rephrase the question alittle.

You send your cue out to some to have a shaft made to fit up with your cue. the person, regardless of who, is turning down a 1" dowel to make the shaft. If they are using a 1 piece dowel the cost of finished product is roughly around $100, or if they are using a radial laminate dowel, the cost is around $150.

In todays tight budget economy where we are seeing gas and food prices sky rocket yet individual earnings are staying the same, what is there to justify someone to spend the additional $50 or so for the laminate when either way, all other demnsions woudl be that same, eg, taper, ferrule, tip, solid core, etc....
 
You send your cue out to some to have a shaft made to fit up with your cue. the person, regardless of who, is turning down a 1" dowel to make the shaft. If they are using a 1 piece dowel the cost of finished product is roughly around $100, or if they are using a radial laminate dowel, the cost is around $150.

In todays tight budget economy where we are seeing gas and food prices sky rocket yet individual earnings are staying the same, what is there to justify someone to spend the additional $50 or so for the laminate when either way, all other demnsions woudl be that same, eg, taper, ferrule, tip, solid core, etc....
Radial blanks cost more. They come with snake oil.
Same amount of work.
 
poolplayer2093

Thanks for the post about one of my old cues. I did not make very many, but there are still quite a few still out there. I must say, that I did not build any shafts that were hollowed out. I did take some steps to minimize tip end mass as much as I could, but I did not hollow any out.

A few things to mention here:

Hollowing out the tip end of any shaft and selling it would be in violation of Predator's patent. Many cue makers have tried this, and been surprised to receive a cease and desist letter!

If you were to hollow out the tip end of a conventional 1 piece solid wood shaft, movement becomes an issue. If it releives any stress, the shaft moves and you have just made firewood. Laminated shafts helps tremendously with this.

I also agree with Sheldon, weight in the ferrule helps you to jump the cue ball, and I also feel that low deflection shafts break the balls very well. Low squirt helps you the hit the front ball more square!


Just thought I would add my thoughts.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
 
RBC said:
poolplayer2093

Thanks for the post about one of my old cues. I did not make very many, but there are still quite a few still out there. I must say, that I did not build any shafts that were hollowed out. I did take some steps to minimize tip end mass as much as I could, but I did not hollow any out.

A few things to mention here:

Hollowing out the tip end of any shaft and selling it would be in violation of Predator's patent. Many cue makers have tried this, and been surprised to receive a cease and desist letter!

If you were to hollow out the tip end of a conventional 1 piece solid wood shaft, movement becomes an issue. If it releives any stress, the shaft moves and you have just made firewood. Laminated shafts helps tremendously with this.

I also agree with Sheldon, weight in the ferrule helps you to jump the cue ball, and I also feel that low deflection shafts break the balls very well. Low squirt helps you the hit the front ball more square!


Just thought I would add my thoughts.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
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thank you for your input in regards to drilling out a 1 piece shaft. thats exactly what i was looking for in regards to that question. and i could see where radial lamination would help to decrease the issue of movement as well.
 
RBC said:
Thanks for the post about one of my old cues. I did not make very many,
If you were to hollow out the tip end of a conventional 1 piece solid wood shaft, movement becomes an issue. If it releives any stress, the shaft moves and you have just made firewood. Laminated shafts helps tremendously with this.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...


additional question. how do you manage stress reliefe when replacing a tenon? doesnt that require drilling into the shaft?
 
RBC said:
poolplayer2093

Thanks for the post about one of my old cues. I did not make very many, but there are still quite a few still out there. I must say, that I did not build any shafts that were hollowed out. I did take some steps to minimize tip end mass as much as I could, but I did not hollow any out.

A few things to mention here:

Hollowing out the tip end of any shaft and selling it would be in violation of Predator's patent. Many cue makers have tried this, and been surprised to receive a cease and desist letter!

If you were to hollow out the tip end of a conventional 1 piece solid wood shaft, movement becomes an issue. If it releives any stress, the shaft moves and you have just made firewood. Laminated shafts helps tremendously with this.

I also agree with Sheldon, weight in the ferrule helps you to jump the cue ball, and I also feel that low deflection shafts break the balls very well. Low squirt helps you the hit the front ball more square!


Just thought I would add my thoughts.

Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
Click to expand...

the cue looked great man. it was birdseye with, if i remember right, birdseye forearm and but with irish linen radial pin. the taper was easy to get used to. too bad you don't make any more i liked it
 
socks said:
additional question. how do you manage stress reliefe when replacing a tenon? doesnt that require drilling into the shaft?
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Yes, you do drill into the shaft approx. 1", give or take, but usually within a very short period of time you are installing the new tenon. The wood simply doesn't have time to move. Drilling 1" deep won't free a lot of internal stress anyway.
 
Same amount of work
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maybe less work as you can turn the radially laminated shafts down faster.i believe they are more stable.

on the other hand i have never in my life hit with any Pred,OB,radial lam.,flat lam or square lam. or etc. that hit anywhere near as good as a high quality piece of Maple.i have tried them all more than once and yes some of them do work,but they don't feel the same.they don't feel as good.
 
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