shaft diameter.

JXMIKE

JXMIKE

Aspiring Pro player
Silver Member
i searched for this subject and couldnt find anything so....

what are the advantages of using a shaft with a 12.75mm 12.50mm or even 11mm diameter? ive always used a standard 13mm maple shaft and on my next cue i was thinking of trying out new specs.

btw im new to the forum so this is my official whats up:smile:



Thanks.
 
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the differences count for a few things. most of these will probably be argued by others on here...so here goes: deflection and spin will be the most controversial. other than those two, i would say comfort is also a factor. although, that can be debated with the type of tapers.
 
JXMIKE said:
i searched for this subject and couldnt find anything so....

what are the advantages of using a shaft with a 12.75mm 12.50mm or even 11mm diameter? ive always used a standard 13mm maple shaft and on my next cue i was thinking of trying out new specs.

btw im new to the forum so this is my official whats up:smile:



Thanks.
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Hey Jax,

How you doing... glad to see you made it to the forum. Welcome...

Dwight
 
along with what thomba said,i like them skinnier mainly b/c for me i can aim better.i am speaking only for myself,but i can actually aim better especially extreme cut shots with 12.7mm vs 13mm.

i do like the 13mm for long straight in though.there is a local in my pool hall called,"the pizza man" and he plays with 5-7 sticks no matter what everytime he plays.he has sticks ranging from 17-20 and 12mm-13mm for different shots.theoretically not a bad idea,but it really throws his rythym off and costs him usually.
 
I also feel that it is easier to pocket long somewhat straight or totally straight in shots with a larger diameter tip and its easier to aim cut shots with smaller diameter tips. Maybe a compromise like a 12.5mm will do for most shots.
 
To my understanding, the larger the tip is, the easier it is to hit center ball. The smaller the tip, generally, the more english you would be able to put on the ball. I could be wrong though.
 
I went from a Lucasi shaft to a OB1 to a Predator z that I have actually had turned down a little. I can honestly say there is absolutely no comparison to the Z, I have always used the standard shaft and never saw the point in using the LD shafts. But after having the Z with the smaller diameter. It worked really well for me. There is no comparison to the amount of spin you can put on the ball. At first it's a little tough to harness the power of the shaft. Once you get used to it you'll love it.
 
We can discuss deflection but it's complicated by other factors, and applying spin may be easier with a smaller diameter tip but that doesn't negate the need for a good stroke. The bottom line is that you should try a few different diameter shafts, and tapers, before you ultimately decide. The polls here have indicated a preference for 12.75 MM I believe, but the taper is more esoteric.

Not long ago a cuemaker/dealer visited me and ended up borrowing a cue. He liked the taper on that stick, as do I, and we discussed it later. he went home and measured an ideal taper as per our preference. On a 29" shaft, the halfway point measured .560" . To us, that was a perfect happy medium between stiff and flexible. YMMV but it's worth some time spent in research before you order a cue. Good luck...Tom
 
BigDogatLarge said:
Hey Jax,

How you doing... glad to see you made it to the forum. Welcome...

Dwight
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Im good man how about yourself?

your quailifer is coming up soon right? hope it goes well.

anyway thanks for the reply guys this helps alot ill keep doing research untill i make a choice, like they say things like this are subjective and is all up to feel.
 
Everything is subjective to personal preference. If you can try cues by different builders with the same diameter but different tapers. This will give you a starting point to see how playability varies. Another method if you wish to spend the money and you have a builder that is willing, have him make several shafts for you, all with progressively stiffer tapers but the same diameter. Its cheaper than buying several cues.
I used to use a "Pro-taper". However now I prefer a modified Euro-taper. I like 12.5-12.75mm.
What you prefer will evolve over time. Especially if you end up searching for the holy grail of cues.
 
Smaller diameter means two things:

1. less squirt (deflection) - because there's less "end mass"

2. greater precision in tip/ball placement - simply because you can see it better

Everything else is myth.

- It isn't easier to hit centerball with a larger tip.
- A smaller tip doesn't put more spin on the CB.
- A smaller tip isn't more sensitive to stroke errors.
- etc.
- etc.

I used 12.75mm tips for many years and have now used a 10mm tip for a few years. I prefer the 10mm tip for the two real reasons (less squirt, more visibility).

The only real concern I'd have with a smaller tip is that the shaft might be more flexible unless you change the taper (you might like it that way). My shaft has a conical taper (widens evenly from tip to joint), which makes a stiff hit.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Smaller diameter means two things:

1. less squirt (deflection) - because there's less "end mass"

2. greater precision in tip/ball placement - simply because you can see it better

Everything else is myth.

- It isn't easier to hit centerball with a larger tip.
- A smaller tip doesn't put more spin on the CB.
- A smaller tip isn't more sensitive to stroke errors.
- etc.
- etc.

I used 12.75mm tips for many years and have now used a 10mm tip for a few years. I prefer the 10mm tip for the two real reasons (less squirt, more visibility).

The only real concern I'd have with a smaller tip is that the shaft might be more flexible unless you change the taper (you might like it that way). My shaft has a conical taper (widens evenly from tip to joint), which makes a stiff hit.

pj
chgo
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I agree with the above.

I make 10mm to 10.6 mm shaft cues. You can have tips from the ferrule size to 14 mm.
The thinner shaft as said before does have less end mass. The radius of the tip , but more importantly your stroke will determin the english put on the cue ball.
A myth that a small tip will give more english is just a myth. A smaller tip will allow a smaller radius at the tip.
Different types and sizes of tips can sometimes help compensate for someone with not as good a stoke as some else.
Alot depends on your playing style as well. There are players that do not use english much in their game , so the squirt effect is not there when not using english.
I suggest you go with a diameter that you feel comfortable with or something that you feel you could get comfortable to.
Shafts can usually be made smaller or the taper adjusted if you want to go that way.
Maybe order a cue with 2 shafts and you can decide which diameter you like best.
Neil
 
Shaft diameter

It may be me but i find that if i practice with a 12mm shaft prior to a big game and then switch to a 13mm for the actual game i pocket more balls... Has anyone else tried this?
 
I have a Predator Z2 shaft, another cue with an 11.2mm shaft, one with a 12.5mm shaft, one with a 12.75mm shaft, and one with a 13mm shaft.

Personally, the smaller the shaft the more I hate it. Unless you have a perfect stroke (and I certaintly don't), IMHO, it is easier to miss shots, especially long straight in shots.

I tried a 14mm shaft and it was very accurate for the long shots without much English. It I didn't have small hands, I probably would use one.

My ideal overall favorite shaft is 12.75 because it can put plenty of English on the cue ball and it is fairly easy to use for the long shots. I like the Predator evenly tapered shaft, but I can stand the feel of the hit you get. So I am going to an OB1 shaft, even though it has a taper to it.

To summarize, a lot depends on your style of play, and what game you are playing. For me, I rarely go beyond one tip from the center. That is why I use a 'dime' rounded tip, to avoid miscues when I do use a lot of English.

In 1968, when I bought my first Josh cue, everyone recommend that I get 2 shafts - one for 9 ball (12.5mm)and one for straight pool (13mm). I ended up playing more with the 13mm. You may consider this route, buying one than one diameter shaft.

Hope this helps.



Thanks.[/QUOTE]
 
Tip, shaft diameter...

Not going into the debate on how shafts deflect or don't, the larger tip size will be more forgiving as to the accuracy of your shots. Smaller tip diameters require much more precision to pocket balls well. Small errors in hitting the cueball with a small diameter tip cause big errors in executing your shots. That's the reason I heard Allison and Karen got pool cues to play with, instead of just using their snooker cues. Tips were too small to be able to control with consistency on a pool table. I played with a 12.5mm tip for a long time when I started out. Once I went to the 13mm, my shot making and position play got much better, JMHOxp. Experiment and find what works best for you.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
Smaller diameter means two things:

1. less squirt (deflection) - because there's less "end mass"

2. greater precision in tip/ball placement - simply because you can see it better

Everything else is myth.

- It isn't easier to hit centerball with a larger tip.
- A smaller tip doesn't put more spin on the CB.
- A smaller tip isn't more sensitive to stroke errors.
- etc.
- etc.

I used 12.75mm tips for many years and have now used a 10mm tip for a few years. I prefer the 10mm tip for the two real reasons (less squirt, more visibility).

The only real concern I'd have with a smaller tip is that the shaft might be more flexible unless you change the taper (you might like it that way). My shaft has a conical taper (widens evenly from tip to joint), which makes a stiff hit.

pj
chgo
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I'd agree with this. I switched to an 11 mm shaft last year, mainly because of the tip placement thing. It just seems easier to see precisely where the tip will hit. I think this is why many think you can get more spin with a thinner tip. You can more easily place the tip accurately with a thinner tip so it sometimes "seems" like you get more spin. In reality you are just more consistent with your tip placement along the edge of the CB.

Ed
 
Tip size and spin

emccune said:
I'd agree with this. I switched to an 11 mm shaft last year, mainly because of the tip placement thing. It just seems easier to see precisely where the tip will hit. I think this is why many think you can get more spin with a thinner tip. You can more easily place the tip accurately with a thinner tip so it sometimes "seems" like you get more spin. In reality you are just more consistent with your tip placement along the edge of the CB.

Ed
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I'm with Ed on his one.

I know that some people will swear that they can load up the white with more spin when using a smaller tip, and maybe they can. But I am sure it is because when switching to a smaller tip, they start hitting the ball differently, perhaps because they become more aware of that part of their stroke. I doubt whether it has anything to do with the physics of having a small tip / different radius of curvature (unless Dr D tells me different of course :wink: )

Mind you I suppose that it doesn't matter whether the cause is a change of stroke or some 'external reality' as long as the effect is there and so long as it lasts. (You wouldn't want to change your cue only to find that any beneficial effect was temporary)

I am interested in the idea that a larger diameter tip is somehow more 'forgiving', and that you need to be playing well to use a small tip consistently. I cannot see any reason why this should be so, but on the other hand, if it is a myth as has been suggested, why is it so widely and firmly believed? :confused:
 
emccune said:
I'd agree with this. I switched to an 11 mm shaft last year, mainly because of the tip placement thing. It just seems easier to see precisely where the tip will hit. I think this is why many think you can get more spin with a thinner tip. You can more easily place the tip accurately with a thinner tip so it sometimes "seems" like you get more spin. In reality you are just more consistent with your tip placement along the edge of the CB.

Ed
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Yes, although I'd say the edge of the safe-cueing range of the CB. I think better visibility helps in a few ways:

- It doesn't hide so much of the cue ball, so you can see more clearly where on the cue ball you're hitting

- The actual contact point is contained in a smaller tip area, so you can see more clearly where on the tip you're hitting (which also helps see where on the cue ball you're hitting)

- You can see more clearly how close to the miscue limit you are, so you can get closer with more confidence

- When hitting low on the cue ball the bottom of the shaft is farther from the cloth so you have more confidence hitting lower

I also think it helps with aiming because the thinner shaft makes it easier to see exactly where it's pointed (but maybe that one's just me).

pj
chgo
 
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