Shame Shame on you Frankie Hernandez, The other side of the story.

watchez said:
The article on the main AZBilliards page said this tournament had 28 players. I don't know if that total included Frankie or not. Anyways, sounds like a real nice turnout & successful to me.

Kay, I am not going to fall for that. You want to play me some?!?! I just told you & the rest of the world my 'speed' & I have no idea how you play. I have to assume that I have no chance as you must be champion just like Mike Janis, Mike Zimmerman, Jose, onepocketchump John, Bob Ramano (who puts on the WindyCityOpen) and any other person that currently runs a pool tour or is associated with one. I'll take the 7 and the break & try you some.

Fishing in Louisville in January? No thanks. I am not much for standing outside for a few hours when it is 20 degrees outside. We will have to get together in a much warmer situation. I had a pretty good season of fishing this year. Went deep sea in Florida back in September and caught some yellow tail tuna & red snapper. Around here, the summer was real hot and the fish weren't biting as much as usual. Mostly, I went fishing at night when it cooled down. I had to quit in late August though because I lost my fish calling whistle in the dark & the website I originally ordered it from was sold out.

Hope all is well with you. Hey, if you come across any fish calling whistles in the bait shops down by you, pick me up one and I'll pay you back. They are actually illegal here in Missouri so no one sells them.
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I'll check around here and down in Florida for one for you and let you know about the fish calling whistles. Warmer is better for me too. Glad you had a good time in Florida with the fishing. I haven't been in so long. The tournaments keep me going.
As for playing I just started back on the Ladies Amateur Tour after about a 3 year lapse....and I really do suck. I actually won 3 games this last time which broke my record of only winning 2 games each match. (matches are race to 7 and 5). The ladies all laugh at me about it but I have a lot of fun. One of the instructors that plays on the Central Florida Amateur Tour said that my form was getting better so maybe there's a chance for me. BTW...It was my husband who use to play on the PBT in the early to mid 90's. He's got a natural talent and I have to really work at it....that kind of sucks..Ha Ha.
Catch you later.
Kay
 
Hey John, this one's for you!

CarolNYC is having a problem trying to log in. The board says that she's logged in, but she's not. Anyway, she asked me to post his for her.

To anyone from AZ reading this, I am a guest,as you know, I do not post here, so forgive me for the intrusion,
and Im sorry to bring this nonsense up, but Im upset with John Barton:
Sarah, Im glad you came in and clarified "rookie of the year"-good for you! I too, was wondering what the criteria was!:)

Lamar,yes, I agree Barbara made a misconception-

John Barton, as a REPRESENTATIVE OF STERLING-you should be ashamed of yourself-for anyone reading this, I was "the player" who gave back the spots to Val-For some God forsaken reason,John felt the need to publicly display all these private emails but neglected to mention the behind-the scenes going ons-I would just like to clarify a few things:
Barbara made EVERY effort to contact Val- to no avail-(Val did not leave a contact number in Europe)brought that tape to~20 people,even had a language specialist listen to it BEFORE she made the call to me- -unanimously it was "wont"
I was called (and this is what started the chain of events)and I was ,just like ,"Wow,okay,cool!."
I receive an email from John ,ranting and raving,threatening to go to court, Val only had 600 dollars and I had no idea what the hell was going on-FINALLY, he writes,"as a friend"-well, I responded to that one-I immediately contacted Barbara and Kelly and gave the spots back to Val.-IMMEDIATELY!
As for Barbaras husband Pete-John talked so much smack to him on the phone, that Pete felt he should introduce himself to John,I guess it would be a little intimidating because Pete is like 6"5-250 lbs-he walked over with his "biker friends", one of them my husband,(yes John, my husband has a Harley) and the other Miami Voodoo Steve,) and John Barton peed his pants-he flipped out,scared to death like a raving lunatic-Pete did absolutely nothing-just his appearance made John lose it!
So,nowJohn, I hope this is the end of this nonsense because frankly,Im sick of it-and I cannot believe you have written this on a public forum-all this was personnal-I can only assume you are upset at Kelly for not winning Rookie of the year and want a scapegoat to blame-as for Val, it isnt Barbara who has done anything to her, its your marketing that has forced her to try and play at the level you are holding her to-you are NOT at the events-I AM,and I see the despair on her face when she loses-and if you dont believe me, then talk to Kelly Fisher because she has mentioned to me on numerous times that she wants you to STOP-why you dont listen is beyond me-dont repond to this-when we see eachother,we'll talk it out-or maybe we wont-
Carol
 
This just keeps getting better & better. Who is CarolNYC? What is her role on this tour? Is this story true? Being an impartial observer, if Pete is a large, intimidating man with biker friends, then why is John still trying to pick a fight with his wife? Does Kelly really not like John? Does Val like John? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Why does everyone always say 6'5" 250lbs? Is that suppose to intimidate??? Sheer size?? thats crazy everyone falls down when you take a knee out! Why do people always think bikers are tuff? Most are pussies and cant fight unless they have a couple of thier friends with them!! Then there are those people that say I know tae kwon do which is a crappy form of martial arts anyways it not for real fighting. Ok there I said my off topic post just like the way this thread has gone! If frankie cant accept that fact that he got kicked out because he is a loud mouth cry baby whinner then thats his problem. Who know what the hell the helper was thinking maybe jose just had a friend help him out or something there could be a million reasons! But I guess the world is against frankie so everyone has to try and cheat him!! What a pussy!!
 
Wow, this post has really progressed nicely into a microcosm of what I was referring to in my post on page one. Professional pool is on the fast track to NOWHERE. There are way too many people out there just for themselves (players, promoters, etc.) and no one doing anything for the good of the sport. All a bunch of cry babies and thugs. :(
 
Barbara said:
CarolNYC is having a problem trying to log in. The board says that she's logged in, but she's not. Anyway, she asked me to post his for her.

To anyone from AZ reading this, I am a guest,as you know, I do not post here, so forgive me for the intrusion,
and Im sorry to bring this nonsense up, but Im upset with John Barton:
Sarah, Im glad you came in and clarified "rookie of the year"-good for you! I too, was wondering what the criteria was!:)

Lamar,yes, I agree Barbara made a misconception-

John Barton, as a REPRESENTATIVE OF STERLING-you should be ashamed of yourself-for anyone reading this, I was "the player" who gave back the spots to Val-For some God forsaken reason,John felt the need to publicly display all these private emails but neglected to mention the behind-the scenes going ons-I would just like to clarify a few things:
Barbara made EVERY effort to contact Val- to no avail-(Val did not leave a contact number in Europe)brought that tape to~20 people,even had a language specialist listen to it BEFORE she made the call to me- -unanimously it was "wont"
I was called (and this is what started the chain of events)and I was ,just like ,"Wow,okay,cool!."
I receive an email from John ,ranting and raving,threatening to go to court, Val only had 600 dollars and I had no idea what the hell was going on-FINALLY, he writes,"as a friend"-well, I responded to that one-I immediately contacted Barbara and Kelly and gave the spots back to Val.-IMMEDIATELY!
As for Barbaras husband Pete-John talked so much smack to him on the phone, that Pete felt he should introduce himself to John,I guess it would be a little intimidating because Pete is like 6"5-250 lbs-he walked over with his "biker friends", one of them my husband,(yes John, my husband has a Harley) and the other Miami Voodoo Steve,) and John Barton peed his pants-he flipped out,scared to death like a raving lunatic-Pete did absolutely nothing-just his appearance made John lose it!
So,nowJohn, I hope this is the end of this nonsense because frankly,Im sick of it-and I cannot believe you have written this on a public forum-all this was personnal-I can only assume you are upset at Kelly for not winning Rookie of the year and want a scapegoat to blame-as for Val, it isnt Barbara who has done anything to her, its your marketing that has forced her to try and play at the level you are holding her to-you are NOT at the events-I AM,and I see the despair on her face when she loses-and if you dont believe me, then talk to Kelly Fisher because she has mentioned to me on numerous times that she wants you to STOP-why you dont listen is beyond me-dont repond to this-when we see eachother,we'll talk it out-or maybe we wont-
Carol
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No Carol,

The end of it should have been last year when it was resolved, however messily. Barbara Stock is the one who has perpetuated this issue with her comments.

I don't know that Barbara made "every effort" to contact Valerie or Kelly. I doubt it as there are plenty of people who knew how to contact either of them that are known to Barbara as well. Barbara could have posted on any of the boards that she needed to get a hold of Val and at least I would have responded on there. Barbara could have contacted Kelly Oyama immediately and Kelly Oyama had Valerie's email address.

As for the unanimity of the interpretation of the word "will" said in Valerie's heavy Scottish accent on an answering machine; Barbara admitted to me ON TAPE that not everyone was sure of it AND I know FOR A FACT that at least one VERY QULAIFIED person said that Valerie definitely said "WILL". Barbara, in running down the numer of people she says she asked about this, curiously omitted this person's answer. But, it is still quite weak of Barbara to have latched on to this one thing to take away the spots that Valerie earned. Especially considering that if she was willing to take the WPBA's word that Kelly Fisher had accepted the CAT tour's invite then the WPBA's word that Valerie had accepted the NEWT tour's invite should have been equally as good. After all, the invite that was Valerie's was never offered to the second place finisher on the NEWT Tour in 2004, Kelly Fisher.

As for "talking smack" to Pete and Barbara, you are way off base here. During our conversations I was extrememly polite and trying to remain level headed despite the fact that both Barbara and Pete were hurling vile insults and being demeaning to Valerie, Kelly, and my boss Scott. I had no reason to "talk smack" as you put it. The situation was very clear for me. Val earned an invite to the WPBA through the NEWT tour, she told both the WPBA and Barbara Stock that she WOULD take the invite and Barbara misheard Val's message and acted inappropriately on it. Valerie insisted that she said would and that is enough for us to attempt to get the situation rectified. A lawsuit was an unwelcome option but one that was definitely in the realm of possibility. Since Barbara elected to be unresponsive then the conversation turned to the subject of legal proceedings. The only "smack" that got talked was when Pete threatened me on the phone and threatened me at Valley Forge. I wanted to play the recording of Barbara and Pete right there over the loudspeakers so the whole place could see how these two deal with people.

The email you received was a last resort to keep the thing from going to court. You did not respond so I sent one last one to you. As long as we are making assumptions about each other's motivations I have to assume that you were in the loop on this whole thing before you got the email. I did not want to have to contact you. Barbara said she was not going to and that I should be the one to do so. Barbara is your friend and as your friend she should have at least contacted you and let us all talk it out instead of playing more games. I put the emails that I wrote to you on the internet for clarity because it is Barbara that is perpetuating this drama. It is clear to me that she still feels as if she were right in her actions and feels she has the license to make any accusations and libelous comments she wants to. She does not Carol, nor do I, you or anyone else without repecussions.

As for me losing it when Pete and Steve walked over, that is utter bullshit on the highest order. First I extended my hand to Pete and he refused it. Then he started threatening me by insinuating what he would do if I ever said anything to him and his wife, and who did we think we were to challenge them and so on. So I got right back in his face and said fine, let's just play the tape and let the people decide. My friends restrained me from making a further public spectacle than the one Pete already started. I am not in the least afraid of Pete or Steve. Not one bit. Was I raving? You bet your ass I was because of the audacity of Pete to come to our booth and make a public confrontation over something that was settled two months prior. I was pissed off that Steve facilitated it knowing how volatile the situation was. It was childish on Pete's part and unprofessional on Steve's. The Biker persona doesn't scare me at all. I know real, bad people that don't talk, don't threaten, they just do it. These are the people I am scared of. Not some weekend play biker who can't sit down and have a normal conversation to hash out differences.

Now, lastly to speak to your point of our marketing and the pressure. Valerie Finnie has the game to beat any woman alive in any given set. You know it full well. What she doesn't have yet is the experience. What she did not need starting her first year on the WPBA circuit was a tour director telling everyone she cheated to get there, that she was undeserving of the spots. I will tell you what, a full year's WPBA entries are $4000. I will put Valerie in the box against you to play 10 sets of nine ball, race to nine alternate breaks. If you win the majority of the sets then you win the money. If not, then Valerie wins the money. This ought to settle the question of whether Valerie deserves to be a WPBA player or not. There is no doubt that Valerie feels pressure to perform for her sponsor. I hope that you feel the pressure to perform for your sponsors as well. That goes with the territory. Having to fade unfounded accusations that you cheated to get there, that you don't have the game and comments like you should get a job at McDonald's instead is not something that should come from a regional tour director. Valerie Finnie's level is on par with the top ten players on tour. All the best players know it and to deny it is nothing more than jealous delusion. It is my opinion that Barbara's actions are nothing more than sour grapes taken to the extreme. Her cattiness and untoward comments have added unneeded pressure to someone who already sacrificed everything to pursue her dream. Despite that Valerie will only get stronger. Our marketing serves to reinforce our confidence in Valerie's abilities and her potentional. I will go so far as to say that there aren't many sponsors who are willing to go to court to secure their player's rights. So please save your admonitions for the ones who really deserve it, Barbara and Pete Stock.

As for Kelly wanting me to stop. Stop what? Defending her against Barbara's accusations and insinuations? Kelly has not once asked me to stop or I would have. She wishes that Barbara would stop making false accusations. But does Barbara have the courage to simply call Kelly and Val and talk to them about Barbara's perceptions. No, she would rather take it public on the forums as she did well before the attempted thievery of Valerie's WPBA invite.

All of this fervor is because Barbara opened her mouth about this, not me. You are involved, AGAIN, because of Barbara's actions. I told you before that I wish it hadn't gone down the way it did. You and Steve have always been some of my most favorite people to see every year at the Super Billiards Expo. It is a shame that we are probably not ever going to be cool with one another now but if the situation had been reversed and you were the one getting screwed then you can be sure I would have gone to bat just the same for you.

John Barton
 
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I knew John wouldn't let us down with his response. He contradicting everything that was said. Now I am really confused. If someone ever knows when Barb, Carol, John, Val, Kelly, and of course Petey are going to be in the same venue, please let me know. Oldhasbeen, forget about the match of Bowman vs Matlock on the internet.....this match would be far greater. It would be just like that celebrity boxing TV show.
 
By the way, a pool shooting Swedish girl with a foreign accent sounds hot. Does this Val have a website so we can all check her out?
 
No - no

watchez said:
By the way, a pool shooting Swedish girl with a foreign accent sounds hot. Does this Val have a website so we can all check her out?
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She is Scottish, not Swedish.
 
Zestyfool said:
Why does everyone always say 6'5" 250lbs? Is that suppose to intimidate??? Sheer size?? thats crazy everyone falls down when you take a knee out! Why do people always think bikers are tuff? Most are pussies and cant fight unless they have a couple of thier friends with them!! !
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I'm just curious if your opinions are based on your personal experience?


Eric
 
"Her CATTINESS"

Now John no demeaning CATS! LOL!!!!!

That 18 holes is looking better and better.

Ahh stop already. Dont we have enough contradictions in the pool world. Like how do we raise more money for tournaments. How do we raise the attendance. How do we bring in 14.1 and One Pocket into mainstream competition. This is what we should be screaming about. Not this petty CRAP!!!!

Frankie take some time off and come back. We need guys like you. Jose thanks for your endeavor. Lets find some way to work together.
 
Eric. said:
I'm just curious if your opinions are based on your personal experience?


Eric
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Yes it is. If you take someones knee out first they fall down then they start crying! Not just bikers but pretty much all guys think they are the shit when thier friends are around but when you get them alone they cry like a baby please dont hurt me please....I was just kidding.....Whatever thier excuse they still get the beating! I just think its funny that most everyone thinks bikers are these big guys who are a bad ass and most are pussies! Of course if there are any on this site they will be like come on man I will kick your ass but then when you see them in person its always the same thing oh man I was just messing with you nothing serious I was just kidding man dont hit me man come on then when they are down and bloody they always start crying! Why are you a biker?
 
Barbara,
I went back an looked, and it appears that you are the one that brought this subject up...on a thread that had a completely different topic. Did you think John would not respond? Now you bring Carol into it for what reason, I can't imagine.
You said some things in a PM to me that I'm sure you would rather remain private, and I will respect that. However, had you said some of those things on a public forum, having no facts to back them up, you probably would be feeling a lot more heat. I did ask you privately why, if the accusations you were making were true, why you wouldn't DQ a player on the spot. You didn't reply to that question, so I can only guess that it was because you had no actual proof that what you have implied actually happened. I'm surprised you would bring the topic up in public.

You could have forwarded Carol's comments to John privately. What point is served by posting it out here. Seems like it's just adding fuel to a fire that is already burning out of control, and one that for all intents and purposes, was already put out last year. I don't see what you thought you would accomplish by bringing all this up again. It was over and done a long time ago.
Steve
 
Blackjack said:
John,
I am not second guessing Jose's decision to have Frankie removed. I was not there, and all I am hearing is different versions of what happened. At this point, what happened is not as important as trying to come to a solution. Many people do and say things they will later regret, and I'm sure both parties understand that. Its not important what "I" would do in that situation, it is important to the tour and to the players to take measures to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future. Going in reverse and second guessing the parties involved doesn't get anyone closer to a solution. So, my answer is that given the circumstances Jose probably made the best decision (albeit a difficult decision) at that point in time. OTOH, so did Frankie.
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I too agree that there has to be a solution, and quickly.
As a tour director and tournament director I understand that mistakes happen and we have to take control and straighten out these mistakes and do what is right. But, damage has been done to the integrity of the tour and some will not return because it is such an uncomfortable situation. Not everyone supports regional tours for the money, but just to compete and to be a part of something.
Some of those who return will be watching vert closely and not all who return will understand or be forgiving. That is just reality.
Blackjack is right, regional tours need players Frankie's abilities. They draw people. Many who participate on regional tours are about as close to the pro level as they will ever get and many won't get to players of Frnakies level except at these events.
The draw, is the draw and muxt not and can not be compromised in any form or fashion. When supporters lose faith in this, the damage can be costly.
On the other hand, players can't run the show or use intimidation tactics to get their way either. The TD has to make a stand and a decision and it can at times be very difficult.
You two need to get together and come with some solution which is best for the sport and your tour. I understand that this may not be easy. Just look at the response it gets from hundreds of miles away. What are your tour membersor supporters thinking?
I wish you both well. You both have tough jobs and need to realise that. Swallow your pride and do what is right! Please?
 
Hi there,
My husband went on a run this past Saturday with a bunch of "bikers" called "The Nam Knights"-they are Vietnam Veterans-the run was called "Toys for Tots" and they raised alot of money and toys for some of the homeless children-I dont know about you, but I would think twice about which bikers you call "wimps"-Vietnam Vets are not wimps!
Take care!
Carol
Oh, thank you Barbara for posting my reply-my daughter helped,:):):):)
 
ironman said:
I too agree that there has to be a solution, and quickly.
As a tour director and tournament director I understand that mistakes happen and we have to take control and straighten out these mistakes and do what is right. But, damage has been done to the integrity of the tour and some will not return because it is such an uncomfortable situation. Not everyone supports regional tours for the money, but just to compete and to be a part of something.
Some of those who return will be watching vert closely and not all who return will understand or be forgiving. That is just reality.
Blackjack is right, regional tours need players Frankie's abilities. They draw people. Many who participate on regional tours are about as close to the pro level as they will ever get and many won't get to players of Frnakies level except at these events.
The draw, is the draw and muxt not and can not be compromised in any form or fashion. When supporters lose faith in this, the damage can be costly.
On the other hand, players can't run the show or use intimidation tactics to get their way either. The TD has to make a stand and a decision and it can at times be very difficult.
You two need to get together and come with some solution which is best for the sport and your tour. I understand that this may not be easy. Just look at the response it gets from hundreds of miles away. What are your tour membersor supporters thinking?
I wish you both well. You both have tough jobs and need to realise that. Swallow your pride and do what is right! Please?
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There was a solution & quickly = Frankies OUT
As far as the integrity of the tour goes.... I haven't seen any other members of the tour questioning Jose's actions, were all quite happy with it.
 
CarolNYC said:
Hi there,
My husband went on a run this past Saturday with a bunch of "bikers" called "The Nam Knights"-they are Vietnam Veterans-the run was called "Toys for Tots" and they raised alot of money and toys for some of the homeless children-I dont know about you, but I would think twice about which bikers you call "wimps"-Vietnam Vets are not wimps!
Take care!
Carol
Oh, thank you Barbara for posting my reply-my daughter helped,:):):):)
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Well I guess this was directed at me!! Well ok you got me when your husband was younger he wasnt a wimp! However after all these years with you he has proabably been pussified!!! so now he would be a wimp!!! hahahahahahaaha
 
Zestyfool said:
Yes it is. If you take someones knee out first they fall down then they start crying! Not just bikers but pretty much all guys think they are the shit when thier friends are around but when you get them alone they cry like a baby please dont hurt me please....I was just kidding.....Whatever thier excuse they still get the beating! I just think its funny that most everyone thinks bikers are these big guys who are a bad ass and most are pussies! Of course if there are any on this site they will be like come on man I will kick your ass but then when you see them in person its always the same thing oh man I was just messing with you nothing serious I was just kidding man dont hit me man come on then when they are down and bloody they always start crying! Why are you a biker?
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If you say so. Looks good on paper, right?


Eric >teenagers:rolleyes:
 
Eric. said:
If you say so. Looks good on paper, right?
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Tell you what: the biggest bunch of pussies in the world are U.S. Rangers. Believe me, they're all tough and sh** when they have their guns and bowie knives clamped between their teeth, but get one alone (and unarmed) and take out his knee caps??? You'll hear some whimpering on a grand scale, I kid you not.

-Roger (everyone's a pussy when their knee is bent the wrong way)
 
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