Shame Shame on you Frankie Hernandez, The other side of the story.

[Travis Bickle]

A lot of assumptions are being made in this mess. I'd love to hear from this "helper."

Lacking that first-hand account, why does everybody here seem so ready to believe that this underling took it upon himself or herself to do something so drastic? What would this person's motivation be? Calcutta maybe, but would that really be worth it? Odds of winning dough vs. the odds of being discovered doing the dirty deed seems like a bad bet to me.

Frankie, despite all that's been said about him, at least laid out a possible rationale for why this was done. Perhaps it was self-serving or paranoid ... I don't know him, but I can't help but think of this helper as a kind of Scooter Libby, taking the fall. Maybe that's what Frankie was so pissed about ... his perceived shifting of the blame and the failure of the TD to own up to what really happened.

 

[junior718]

I don't understand why this is still an issue. It was settled; José settled it at the tournament. José Burgos is known to be a great tour director.

how is he a great tour director??? which tour has he done that is sucessful??

 

[EL'nino]

how is he a great tour director??? which tour has he done that is sucessful??

The tour that he is currently directing. Jose is doing a fantastic job with this tour.... Frankie is the only one who has a problem.

 

[KBP]

John,
I am not second guessing Jose's decision to have Frankie removed. I was not there, and all I am hearing is different versions of what happened. At this point, what happened is not as important as trying to come to a solution. Many people do and say things they will later regret, and I'm sure both parties understand that. Its not important what "I" would do in that situation, it is important to the tour and to the players to take measures to ensure this doesn't happen again in the future. Going in reverse and second guessing the parties involved doesn't get anyone closer to a solution. So, my answer is that given the circumstances Jose probably made the best decision (albeit a difficult decision) at that point in time. OTOH, so did Frankie.

The bottom line is that the bracket should not have been changed. That was the begining and the whole issue. That is what started all of this and I am still confused about the helper issue. Why was there a helper and why wasn't the draw witnessed by the person running the tournament? I do it all at my events and I have at least two players that witness my draws. Its never the same players so that it can be done fairly. I feel that with the situation Frankie just felt that he was treated unfairly. Maybe he didn't handle it right but when you get upset sometimes you don't make the best judgement. Now that the bracket has been done this way does this make the integrity of the tour in question. I am sorry but I would have to question it and I would expect my players to question me if that happen at one of my events. I would even expect them to question me if one of my TD's did it.
Kay

 

[KBP]

John...What do you think of this law that we have here in Missouri? You and me go into a liquor store. You are completely unaware as I pull out a gun and shoot & kill the guy behind the counter. I take the money & we leave the store. Guess what---you are guilty by association & can be tried for murder. They can stretch this & this has been done in a pretty famous case. Me & you drive up to a motel. You stay in the car, I go into a motel room and shoot & kill someone. You might claim you never knew it happened but they arrest you and put you also on trial for murder.

Hey Watchez,
Isn't that a law in most states? I believe it is in Ga. How are you and how has it been going? Caught any fish lately?
Kay

 

[KBP]

I have never heard of the BLAZE tour, being from the Midwest. It got me thinking, where does it get its' name? When I hear the word BLAZE all I can think of is a slang name for someone high on pot.

To get you updated. The Blaze tour use to be the Hampton Ridge tour and HR was the sponsor. Now it is the Balze tour and Sterling Gaming is sponsoring it with the Blaze cue.
Kay

 

[KBP]

If I was purposefully cheated, I would want the entire tournament to know. Being a tournament director takes a lot of patience. Some can handle the job, some can't. I know I couldn't. Especially if it was dealing with pool players. It is how it is handled that helps settle and defuse the situation. As i earlier posted, just as the manager in a restaurant offers a free meal if you get bad service, Jose should've offered a free entry. From this story, I doubt that Frankie would ever play in another of these tournaments, barred or not.

I find it ironic that onepocketchump continues to try to get my goat while he wants complete forgiveness for his friend, Jose. Oh by the way, I SUCK AT POOL. I hope that is clear to you since you like capital letters so much. I have only hit the end rail once in my life, I have two witnesses that were there. You John, are the one that can't let it go. Not everyone gets off swimmingly at first but with you I can see that it will never end. I remember the first time I met Tony Chohan, we clashed personality wise & had a big disagreement while gambling. He thought he was right & so did I. That is over and done with. Now when I run into Tony I wouldn't say we are best buddies but we are cordial with each other. He had a few beers with me last year at the DCC, something I bet 6 months ago prior he would've bet would not happen. We are not friends but we can at least acknowledge each other's presence like adults. You think gambling or in your case losing money makes you a man? Around here, we would just call you a sucker. Like I said before, I guarantee I get more action in a day than you get in a month. I don't need to lower myself to name calling or personal attacks. Come to the DCC & I will gladly buy you a beer.

Hey Watchez,
I suck at pool too....maybe we need to get a game up sometime if we are ever in the same area. There are people you can talk to and there are people you can't I feel that this is all a bad situation that is over and needs to be dropped. Just wait and see what happens at the next event. Its done and over.
BTW Wat...if I ever get to DCC I want to go fishing.
Kay

 

[Black-Balled]

I see you made new friends. Isn't that good enough reason for all the pages

I talked with my guy on the inside who confirmed that the day's play was affected by the 2 draw changes and that the general consensus was 'WTF kinda tour is this?!'. And that how Frankie reacted was grounds for dismissal.

I can't figure out why there are 5 pages on this thread. 5 pages of nothing new. Just more the same...

Sheister running a tournament and a thug pool player making an ass of himself.

Same story, different day.

 

[watchez]

The article on the main AZBilliards page said this tournament had 28 players. I don't know if that total included Frankie or not. Anyways, sounds like a real nice turnout & successful to me.

Kay, I am not going to fall for that. You want to play me some?!?! I just told you & the rest of the world my 'speed' & I have no idea how you play. I have to assume that I have no chance as you must be champion just like Mike Janis, Mike Zimmerman, Jose, onepocketchump John, Bob Ramano (who puts on the WindyCityOpen) and any other person that currently runs a pool tour or is associated with one. I'll take the 7 and the break & try you some.

Fishing in Louisville in January? No thanks. I am not much for standing outside for a few hours when it is 20 degrees outside. We will have to get together in a much warmer situation. I had a pretty good season of fishing this year. Went deep sea in Florida back in September and caught some yellow tail tuna & red snapper. Around here, the summer was real hot and the fish weren't biting as much as usual. Mostly, I went fishing at night when it cooled down. I had to quit in late August though because I lost my fish calling whistle in the dark & the website I originally ordered it from was sold out.

Hope all is well with you. Hey, if you come across any fish calling whistles in the bait shops down by you, pick me up one and I'll pay you back. They are actually illegal here in Missouri so no one sells them.

 

[onepocketchump]

Yeah, you should f*cking talk. LOL!! But I digress...

If the tournament was done with computer software, what's another 15 minutes to do another draw and make out a new chart. Then again, you can't please everyone. Some will complain and some won't. If Jose made sure that Frankie was placed back into his original slot, so be it. A mistake was made and lessons were learned.

Barbara

Gee Barb, you are a real piece of work aren't you? Does Petey know that you are here provoking people? Can't even run your own tour the right way, can't show any professionalism or discretion and you want to get on here and criticize me.

Here is the deal Mrs. Barbara Stock, no one accused you of mean-spiritedness and crookedness UNTIL you opened your mouth and PROVED it. Since you now seem to want to stalk me thoughout other threads about the issue you screwed up on, I'll address it for you. You opened the door for the discussion on the other thread. If you think that you can discuss it rationally then I will be more than happy to debate it with you with no name-calling or personal insults. It is my opinion that you are unwilling to do this because you do not have case and when you tried wrongly to punish Kelly and Val for something that you did not even make a violation on your tour you were soundly rebuffed. Because you were unable to muster the courage to simply admit you made a mistake and fix it like an adult, you would have rather seen it go to court than simply fix it or even discuss it civilly.

Let me lay it out for you in the simplest terms I can think of. You were made aware that a mistake was made. It was correctable. Both the WPBA and the player who was given the spots in error agreed that the decision was reversible. All you had to do was to call the WPBA and give Val the spots. The only reason that you did not is, apparently because you wanted to punish Kelly and Val for something you feel is wrong but could not prove nor even addressed. The one thing had nothing to do with the other Barbara. The issue would never have escalated had you simply returned the phone calls and emails. You are on the forums everyday. There is no excuse for you to have not opened dialog about this. I did not know you, you did not know us. At that point there was no reason to be anything but friendly with each other, as I was to you.

I am going to leave you with one tip. When you are going to talk about someone in very derogatory terms, especially someone you don't know, you had better make sure you have hung up the phone before you start lambasting them. You and your husband are very vile people. Now, I can carry on a semi-intelligent conversation or I can be vile as well. At the point that you went off on me you had had no cause to be rude to me, to be profane or impolite.

If you continue to malign me and my friends on this and other boards I will go off on you in the most sarcastic ways you can imagine. You will get no respite from me as every comment you make will be scutinized and critized. I will not tolerate your unjust accusations and your vile demeanor here or in person.

Sincerely,

John Barton

 

[onepocketchump]

Wow, Johnny Boy has a lot to say about how a Tour is run. He should learn about the "C" word. Begins with C. Do I have an O and a L and -L and a U and a S and a I and a O oops and a N to re-work a finish?

Barbara

You mean like how you C-O-N-S-P-I-R-E-D to S-T-E-A-L a player's WPBA spots that she won without breaking ANY of the rules of your tour AT ALL. If you don't think players get together to cut up tournaments every day then you are more delusional than I thought. I am not saying that Kelly and Val did that on your tour or any other tournament but if they did then it was the smart move. Way smarter than your attempt to punish them based on the sound of one word on an answering machine. Talk about grasping at straws. You just didn't reckon with a sponsor that had the cojones to take you to the mat over it. Stings like a b***h when you find out you don't have the power to dictate people's lives doesn't it?

John

 

[watchez]

Huh?? Who is Petey, Kelly, and Val and who are John Barton's friends and why was the WPBA involved? Where is this other thread? Who is Barbara? Why did she spell out C-O-L-L-S-U-I-O-N? At least in soap operas on TV, if you miss a week or even a month, you can pick up the story line with the next episode. With this soap opera, I am confused. I read this three times & I am still lost. I thought we were talking about Jose, Frankie, the police, my lack of ability in playing pool, having a beer with onepocketchump John and fishing.

 

[Jaden]

by speling it out

By spelling out COLLUSIONm she was inferring that Jose was involved in the changing of the draw, at least that's what I got out of it.

 

[Koop]

By spelling out COLLUSIONm she was inferring that Jose was involved in the changing of the draw, at least that's what I got out of it.

I think she was referring to John in that post.

 

[onepocketchump]

By spelling out COLLUSIONm she was inferring that Jose was involved in the changing of the draw, at least that's what I got out of it.

No, she was knocking me for putting her in her place after our company called her out on her attempt to punish Valerie Finnie for alleged collusion while Valerie played on her tour. In essence, Jaden, she is carrying her beef into another thread instead of standing up and explaining herself in the other one where she opened up the subject.

She might have been slapping Jose' as well but I don't think she is that savvy.

John

 

[watchez]

Ok, so now we know Barbara runs a tour that Valerie Finne plays in. No offense Valerie but I never heard of you. I am too busy practicing trying to hit the end rail to know all the women players. Perhaps Valerie, if you are listening, you could give me some pointers on the best way to hit the end rail. Anyways, shame on Barbara for talking about something that was brought up in another thread over here in this one. I wouldn't stand for someone making a personal attack on me in this thread if the discussion was to be about Jose/Frankie. I mean if someone tryed to demean my playing ability by saying I couldn't hit the end rail or called me a jerkoff in this thread, under this discussion, I wouldn't stand for it. I'm glad that didn't happen because most people in this thread, obviously Barbara excluded, are more adult than that.

 

[onepocketchump]

Ok, so now we know Barbara runs a tour that Valerie Finne plays in. No offense Valerie but I never heard of you. I am too busy practicing trying to hit the end rail to know all the women players. Perhaps Valerie, if you are listening, you could give me some pointers on the best way to hit the end rail. Anyways, shame on Barbara for talking about something that was brought up in another thread over here in this one. I wouldn't stand for someone making a personal attack on me in this thread if the discussion was to be about Jose/Frankie. I mean if someone tryed to demean my playing ability by saying I couldn't hit the end rail or called me a jerkoff in this thread, under this discussion, I wouldn't stand for it. I'm glad that didn't happen because most people in this thread, obviously Barbara excluded, are more adult than that.

Watchez, could you please point to any threads where I have ever taken an argument into a completely different topic/thread? Did I attack you in this thread at all or say anything to you UNTIL you made some jackass comment about me? Is it so hard for you to understand that this is a discussion forum and it remains one until someone makes it personal? In this particular discussion we were discussing the situation and the way it was handled. No where did I personally attack David, you or Barbara until YOU and BARBARA attacked me. I am still having a civil conversation with David. As far as calling you a jerkoff, stop being one and you'll stop getting called one.

John

 

[deadstroke32]

Uh......HELLO !!!! After reading the threads regarding this situation, is it not painfully obvious why men's professional pool is and will always be in the gutter ??? Way, way too many cry-babies, thugs, and con artists. (I truly wish it were not the case).

True that is so true ..

 

[watchez]

Watchez, could you please point to any threads where I have ever taken an argument into a completely different topic/thread? Did I attack you in this thread at all or say anything to you UNTIL you made some jackass comment about me? Is it so hard for you to understand that this is a discussion forum and it remains one until someone makes it personal? In this particular discussion we were discussing the situation and the way it was handled. No where did I personally attack David, you or Barbara until YOU and BARBARA attacked me. I am still having a civil conversation with David. As far as calling you a jerkoff, stop being one and you'll stop getting called one.

John

This is ridiculous but if it has to continue I'll just say that I pointed out to David that you were taking the other side of this topic with Jose/Frankie just to contradict me. I didn't realize that your company is a main sponsor of Jose's tour--guess I should get a list of all the tours and their sponsors. That being said, I don't think I said anything that negative, just that you would enjoy arguing with me that water wasn't wet. Nothing personal was said. In regards to Barbara, I have no idea who she is & how I got roped in with her. I was just trying to understand her vague comments and asked her or you to explain. I know undersand that she had a run in with a female player that your company also sponsors. Makes sense why you and Barbara don't seem to get along.

 

[onepocketchump]

This is ridiculous but if it has to continue I'll just say that I pointed out to David that you were taking the other side of this topic with Jose/Frankie just to contradict me. I didn't realize that your company is a main sponsor of Jose's tour--guess I should get a list of all the tours and their sponsors. That being said, I don't think I said anything that negative, just that you would enjoy arguing with me that water wasn't wet. Nothing personal was said. In regards to Barbara, I have no idea who she is & how I got roped in with her. I was just trying to understand her vague comments and asked her or you to explain. I know undersand that she had a run in with a female player that your company also sponsors. Makes sense why you and Barbara don't seem to get along.

I wasn't answering David just to be contradictory to him or you. I was making counterpoints that I felt add to the discussion. If I agree with someone then I will either keep silent or voice my agreement. If I disagree then I will do the same. I never disagree just to get a rise out of someone.

And, like Pete said, water isn't wet wanna bet on it...

John