Shane's racking "trick"

[JAM]

And you want to know a great irony in that event? I was there and Predator had handed out their new break cue like candy on Halloween. All the players were told that they would get money if they used it on the tv table. So almost every player on the tv tables used a Predator to break with. Softly.

In a word, WOW! That's incredible. I remember when Predator used to give the players break cues. It was good advertising, I guess, on their part. When spectators see the pros using Predator breakcues, they figure, "Hey, I want one of what they're shooting with."

 

[JB Cases]

In a word, WOW! That's incredible. I remember when Predator used to give the players break cues. It was good advertising, I guess, on their part. When spectators see the pros using Predator breakcues, they figure, "Hey, I want one of what they're shooting with."

I just looked up the finals and the promoters actually changed the table for the finals. Instead of using the one that all the players had been breaking softly on they decided to get one of the outer tables and use it for the finals and Gomez broke hard. with his new Predator.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Most of the players are tricking the rack. It's certainly not just Shane. Not even close. The opponent has the right to inspect the rack. Most did not.

The racking rules are the culprit, not the players.

Freddie <~~~ not just for kids

You are correct....technically. I don't know. I guess I still believe in character. I am disappointed but not surprised. Johnny Archer called it perfectly in his interview on billiard radio. I just want to see some values out of the players I look up to. When you try that hard to dissect the rule book to find some perceived advantage, you are completely disrespecting your opponents. ...and the game. Look at Neils' s facebook page and see what is being said about American players. True or not, its disheartening.

 

[combination]

This isn't a problem at the Mosconi Cup and it shouldn't be a problem at the US Open.

 

[freedomfry]

Niels did not play Shane in this match.
Is he able to see gaps from the bleachers?
I stopped using my Diamond wood rack years ago,
because it would not rack tight.
I think if Shane was adjusting the one ball, It was to tighten it to the rack.
Niels is one of my favorite players, but this is just sour grapes.

I think some people need to get real, no offense. Shane, Mike and others are not touching the 1 ball to rack tighter, they are touching the 1 ball to get the cracks in the rack necessary to make the ball of their choosing. Other players are not doing that, for whatever reasons. Consequently, the players who are manipulating the rack gain an unfair advantage over players who try to rack as tightly as possible. To me, thats cheating.

 

[Ron Swanson]

There is only one reason why a player would fiddle with a rack, and that is to cheat. Period.

Whichever template for breaking is eventually adopted, it must be universal, with no *****ing and crying. A good compromise leaves everyone unhappy.

Also, us bangers should not interfere in the process. Let those in charge get on with it. Pros should also STFU.

 

[Island Drive]

Tennis format

There is no choice for the two (must be at the back) however, the 6 remaining free balls are supposed to be racked randomly. Those three do not seem random.

Furthermore, it was VERY clear from watching Orcollo rack, that was he was consciously swapping and switching balls around.

Moving balls around to get em all snug has always been the fair way to play the game. Even when you get a New set of balls, they are within certain tolerances and are NEVER all the exact same diameter, thus players move em around to remove gaps and get a tight rack.
The inherent nature of pool here and allot of places, and the nature of competition worldwide is to find a way to beat your opponent within the guidelines of the rules.
If it's loser racks/winner breaks both players have a job each game, but letting the ''fox in the henhouse'' having the winner/brake & rack was borne out of the McChesney/McDermott Tour years and the bar table players.
When the whining started to surface during play, John would rack the rest of the match for that table....and we all know the TD has more important matters than to babysit two adults.
Then the Sardo rack surfaced to fix this issue for the pros NOT/then ten ball to eliminate the wing ball issues.
Next the magic rack/then move the nine to the spot. Each time there is a change players figure out another way to make balls, because this is ''your goal'' MAKE A BALL and get shape.
If you play sets like the US Open tennis where each player gets the brake the same amount it equalizes play.
Have winner of lag break the first Set with their opponent racking, and vise versa.... best two out of three sets/dbl elim., or three out of five, use the magic rack to neutralize this inherent aspect of play ''to stop the complaining''.
I don't think pool players will EVER stop complaining....obviously snooker seems to have some control, why? probably because you are able to do what you love and make a life from your winnings, rotation pool does NOT offer that yet, and players, like children want more. And when you don't give your kids what they want or need....we all know the rest of that story.

 

[JB Cases]

"Niels 'The Terminator' Feijen (Official) Just to make clear before i get a little shut eye. I'm not calling Shane a cheat, I just used his match as an example of the format I don't agree with. If I knew as much as him about the rack I would do the same, cause it's totally within the format rules, but there lies the problem in my personal opinion. It should be the same rack for all players so magic rack 9 on the spot, 3 point rule. Nighty night "

 

[itsfroze]

You are correct....technically. I don't know. I guess I still believe in character. I am disappointed but not surprised. Johnny Archer called it perfectly in his interview on billiard radio. I just want to see some values out of the players I look up to. When you try that hard to dissect the rule book to find some perceived advantage, you are completely disrespecting your opponents. ...and the game. Look at Neils' s facebook page and see what is being said about American players. True or not, its disheartening.

You actually believed what he said on ABR ??? WOW

Orcollo was complaining that it was unfair when Dechaine was touching the 1 ball with the rack on, in their match
then he must have changed his mind (to now it's fair) LOL, because he started doing the same thing when he played Shane.
If it's within the rules then it's fair, if it's not within the rules (or unfair) then change the rules don't cry about it.

 

[sammylane12]

I've been sweating Niels' action from afar for many years now. The first United States tournament he attended was the U.S. Open in 2003. Thereafter, he became very active on the international pool scene.

I have seen him accept defeat like a gentleman many times. He is just as much a gracious winner as he is a loser.

Does he complain about table conditions or sharking or things like that? Sure.

That said, I believe him about the rack-rigging. I do not think Niels would make such an declaration unless it was 100 percent true. :frown:

Here's a photo I took in 2003 at that Open. Keith ended up defeating Niels that year, and Niels shook his hand like a professional. There were no sour grapes.

There are certain players that do whine and moan after the fact. Niels ain't one of them.

Apparently Niels IS one of them. What his statement amounts to is this: Niels didn`t win so there must be cheating going on.

 

[buckshotshoey]

You actually believed what he said on ABR ??? WOW

I had no reason not to believe him. And as it turns out, he was right. And I am still hoping it all turns out to be bulls**t. Dim hope, but hope none the less.

 

[naji]

I just read this from Niels Feijen's Facebook page:

"Sorry but i can't help it to write something negative about the us open(rack mechanics) championships. I just watched Shane beat dennis on centre court and he made the corner ball 9 out of 11 times, where the entire field was happy to get a ball down on that table. When you rack you're not allowed to touch the rack once you lift it so he touches the 1 ball when the rack is still on, creates gaps and gets the corner ball. Genius trick and an absolute monster player but i truly feel this break format with rack your own is chewed out, old school and done with!! It was created to speed up the game/racking and now it's whoever knows the most tricks/cheats gets the edge. Magic rack, 9 on the spot, 3 point rule break from anywhere, alternate break...It's no rocket science. Same rack for everybody.
My prediction, Shane will win his third title in a row, he's playing great and knows the tricks."

Niels Feijen is a sour looser, he knows the trick and he is allowed to do it, but because he failed to do what SVB is doing, now SVB is a rack cheater? Common now! Niel you lost, your luck did not work this time! maybe next time..

I want to defend Dennis O! he was playing Mike D, and complained that MD is touching the one , the ref came and told him as long as the rack on the balls it is ok, so DO started doing it! He was not successful as MD.

It takes exact speed, english, and exact aim , of which SVB practice heavily,

Go SVB, ! keep your ear plug off, you deserve to win! you play better than all period!

 

[JB Cases]

Too bad this discussion can't be on AZB with pros weighing in.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Niels-The-Terminator-Feijen-Official/316778628871

 

[nb92]

Maybe a comparison of records of events where you rack your own vs not touching the rack? Could be the home cookin’ being missed isn’t the food? :shrug:

 

[Island Drive]

US Open Tennis Format/Works

Keep it Simple....Took tennis years to get their format right.
It's time to use it.

Sets….best 3 out of 5….Race to 3 or whatever is best....Double elimination.

Lag for who breaks first set....then alternate

Alternate breaker for each set
Alternate racker for each set
Lag when there is a tiebreaker
Do this till match ends

Use Magic Rack

24 second shot clock, one 24 second extension allowed per rack
Bathroom break, one per match.

 

[shaggybahama]

Just kick there A$$ SVB, tell them talk that, go and make history 3 straight!!! Ride or die with SVB. They gat to be joking.

 

[Poolshootindon]

Okay

I'm a fan of Dennis, but I'm not a fan of his racking.

Here are his first 3 racks,

1
7,8
5,9,6
3,4
2

1
8,7
5,9,6
3,4
2

1
6,8
5,9,7
4,3
2

And what does this mean?

In a thread awhile back I suggested that they have a sheet of paper with 21 different racking patterns. Everyone gets the same sheet and everyone must rack according to the racking pattern for that game of the set.

Half the problem is solved right there.

Don

 

[Diamond69]

So SVB practices breaks more than anyone. My guess is he doesn't focus on creating 1 gap that allows him to make a ball. He probably practices with gaps in different areas to see how the balls react. And no gaps at all.

So if someone else racks the balls, he would look for any gap and know where to break from. Then when he is winning, people will come on and suggest the breaker shouldn't be allowed to look at the rack before breaking.

Then when he wins, they'll suggest he has to break blindfolded? Off handed?

And guess what, he'll start practicing those!

They changed the rack location and he practiced the new location looking for an advantage. That's what great players do!

 

[Island Drive]

Just kick there A$$ SVB, tell them talk that, go and make history 3 straight!!! Ride or die with SVB. They gat to be joking.

Hey shag, I'm with ya here. What I think is at the root of Shanes success (other that his skill and work ethic) is his hearing. Since he hears less, he see's more and avoids distractions....as Fat's said years ago, avoiding distractions is Thee most important thing to learn during match play.

 

[Chops02]

bottom line...shane has every aspect of breaking down better than almost (with the exception of a handful of guys) anyone out there. and yes...when playing rack your own...knowing how to rack the balls is just as important. if neils doesn't like how shane's racking them.....then inspect them and make sure everything's frozen and square. if you're not gonna do that.....then don't whine. and if you did that and shane is still making balls........then maybe we should just chalk it up to practice and again...not whine.