Sharking or not Sharking?

twal

"W"
Silver Member
So played league last night and player “A” (on my team) was shooting and using a bridge. He shot, miscued on the CB and it popped up and came back down and he still made the ball.

Player “B” approaches the table to question if this was a legal hit. Player “B” says well the league director is right here, and he was, let me go ask him.

Player “A” stayed at the table waiting for a decision to be made.

So player “B” speaks with the director and the decision is made rather quickly (within 30 seconds) that under BCA rules this was not a foul.

Player “B” and the league director continue to have discussions while player “A” waits. Clearly player “B” disagreed with this decision.

Well this discussion goes on for what felt like at least 5 minutes, so it probably more like 3 minutes.

Player “A” finally comes over and says to both, I would like a ruling so I shoot or not. This delay is not fair to me. So I am on player “A’s” team and the director calls me over regarding a definition of a jumped ball. I shared my input and then said that the delay is shark tactic on player “B”. This was not fair to my player. Once a decision has been made he should be allowed to shoot.

So I walked away and they still were talking. Finally a minute or 2 later player “A” was allowed to shoot. The delay in total now felt like 10 minutes, which means it was more like 5-6 minutes.

So in the end, player “A” missed his shot and then player “B” stepped to the table and ran out.

Needless to say I felt it was a shark move on player “B”. My league director disagrees and said well, everyone is entitled to get clarification of the rules. I guess I am of the opinion that that is not correct. Everyone who shoots needs to know the rules. Just because they don’t know or don’t understand the rules should not give them the right to wrongfully delay play.

As I said this was BCA rules. In my opinion, this was pretty clear cut that there was no foul. Maybe you had to be there to see it. The only argument would be that he double kissed the CB with his tip. Player “B” could not say that and therefore a miscue is not a foul.

I do understand some situations come up where a delay to get the right call is warranted. I guess I this situation, I don’t see it and there is lies my complaint.

Maybe I am just venting, but it did cost my team 2 points. This was the final game of the night.

I would like to hear the AZers thoughts on this.
 
IMHO that's blatant sharking. Funny that you post this, I was just about to post a topic about sharking in leagues... just this past week in my league match I was sharked by two players on the opposing team... I don't think there's specific rules regarding it (at least not under VNEA as far as I'm aware) but it's just a simple respect thing to me. And really, it's just league, people are coming to have fun... I don't get why some people feel they need to shit on everyone else's parade. I find this especially happens with the low handicaps (since it's the only way they can win? idk)
 
Once the ref said its a good hit I would continue shooting. If the other guy wants to get clarification they can go at it while I'm shooting.

Sharking, yes. Was it intentional ..... maybe. Hard call for me to make since I wasn't there. I've seen allot worse!
 
I'm in the "continue shooting"camp...after all, a ruling is supposed to abate contention. If disagreement still exist, the time for airing is not within the match. That's what they created protest procedures for. I'm afraid your player got a raw deal.
 
Last edited:
It could have been sharking, but I really don't think so. Idiot B player? Yes. Sharking? Probably not.
 
I saw the shot and no, no ferrule contact.
I have never seen a micsue that hit the ferrule.
I think the only way do that would be to mover the stick sideways or have the cb drop on top of the shaft.
Well, maybe I am wrong???

Anyway, in this situation, the CB maybe came up 1" total.

I know I am totally bias with my opinion.

Clearly I am still pissed about it :mad:
Not the first time and I am sure it will not be the last time something like this comes up.
 
Here's the BCA rule:

1.34 Jump Shots and Massé Shots
1. Jump shots are legal shots. However, it is a foul if you intentionally cause the cue ball to rise off the bed of the table by "digging under" or "scooping" the cue ball with the cue. (AR p. 78)

The key word here is "intentionally". In your case, if there was not a ball impeding player A's line, then there would be no conceivable reason to deliberately scoop under the ball. Therefore by rule this would not be a foul.

Part of the problem here appears to be your director allowing this to drag on. He should have a copy of the rules at hand, and should have made a quick ruling, allowing A to continue shooting while educating B off-line. As to whether this was sharking, I think you'd have to take the psychology of the individual into account. This could be a misunderstanding of the rules, or it could be sharking. Too many variables to be sure based on a simple description.
 
Brechbt - you make an excellent point.
I am not going to say that player “B” can figure out to tie how own shoes (just kidding).
However, this guy has been playing competitive pool (tournaments included) for at least 5 years.
I know he knows or should know the rule.
This is why it fueled additional aggravation for me.

I feel 99% sure that he did this to stall and freeze my player.
In the end he was successful.
 
I agree with Jason, probably not sharking. The league operator should have issued the decision in a timely manner. 5-10 minutes just seems too long.
 
Sorry, cannot open your link at work.
I assume this is a video with a high speed camera.
Sorry, but NFL rules don't apply.
You can't stop play in BCA on an unwatched shot and go back to the film.
I will look at it later for my own curiosity.
Thanks for the link.
 
Last edited:
I agree with Jason, probably not sharking. The league operator should have issued the decision in a timely manner. 5-10 minutes just seems too long.

The OP says the decision was made quickly. At that point, a ruling was made, and the discussion should have been over. If player B disagreed with the ruling, he should have filed a protest, but he should not have continued to disrupt/delay play. A league director's decision is usually considered final and play should have resumed at that point.
 
Once the ref said its a good hit I would continue shooting. If the other guy wants to get clarification they can go at it while I'm shooting.

Sharking, yes. Was it intentional ..... maybe. Hard call for me to make since I wasn't there. I've seen allot worse!

tap tap tap

exactly my response.
 
Easy response... Here is what you do......

Ok, you missed and it's his shot. He hits the first ball. You immediately walk up to the table and lay your stick down on the table so he cannot shoot again. You explain that he hit the cueball on one of his practice strokes, and ended up hitting the cueball twice, it's a foul.

Now the ref will be called over, and he will make a decision. If he doesn't decide in your favor, argue at the table for 20 minutes. Your stick is on the table so no one can shoot. If someone tries to remove your cue, tell them not to touch your f*cking cue.

That should put an end to that type of sharking for the rest of your league nights.
 
I was kind of more pissed at the other player last night.
What most of you point out maybe the leage director here is not without fault.
In fact, I am kind of thinking, if he would have done what he should have. That is make a decision and move on, none of this would have happened.
So now I wonder who is at greater fault?
 
So played league last night and player “A” (on my team) was shooting and using a bridge. He shot, miscued on the CB and it popped up and came back down and he still made the ball.

Player “B” approaches the table to question if this was a legal hit. Player “B” says well the league director is right here, and he was, let me go ask him.

Player “A” stayed at the table waiting for a decision to be made.

So player “B” speaks with the director and the decision is made rather quickly (within 30 seconds) that under BCA rules this was not a foul.

Player “B” and the league director continue to have discussions while player “A” waits. Clearly player “B” disagreed with this decision.

Well this discussion goes on for what felt like at least 5 minutes, so it probably more like 3 minutes.

Player “A” finally comes over and says to both, I would like a ruling so I shoot or not. This delay is not fair to me. So I am on player “A’s” team and the director calls me over regarding a definition of a jumped ball. I shared my input and then said that the delay is shark tactic on player “B”. This was not fair to my player. Once a decision has been made he should be allowed to shoot.

So I walked away and they still were talking. Finally a minute or 2 later player “A” was allowed to shoot. The delay in total now felt like 10 minutes, which means it was more like 5-6 minutes.

So in the end, player “A” missed his shot and then player “B” stepped to the table and ran out.

Needless to say I felt it was a shark move on player “B”. My league director disagrees and said well, everyone is entitled to get clarification of the rules. I guess I am of the opinion that that is not correct. Everyone who shoots needs to know the rules. Just because they don’t know or don’t understand the rules should not give them the right to wrongfully delay play.

As I said this was BCA rules. In my opinion, this was pretty clear cut that there was no foul. Maybe you had to be there to see it. The only argument would be that he double kissed the CB with his tip. Player “B” could not say that and therefore a miscue is not a foul.

I do understand some situations come up where a delay to get the right call is warranted. I guess I this situation, I don’t see it and there is lies my complaint.

Maybe I am just venting, but it did cost my team 2 points. This was the final game of the night.

I would like to hear the AZers thoughts on this.

I disagree. I think player B could have been correct. Scooping the ball with the cue is a foul if it jumps up, so I don't see why he doesn't have a right to clarification. If he was purposefully prolonging the discussion then it would have been sharking, but it sounds like their could have been legitimate reason to question things, or at least that he thought he did.
 
Whether it is sharking, ignorance of the rules or whatever, it happens in leagues so you might as well accept it. If you allow that stuff to get under you skin you will never be happy in a league.

For the record, I no longer play leagues.
 
I saw the shot and no, no ferrule contact.
I have never seen a micsue that hit the ferrule.
I think the only way do that would be to mover the stick sideways or have the cb drop on top of the shaft.
Well, maybe I am wrong???
Most miscues do involve secondary contact with the tip, ferrule, and/or shaft. However, unintentional miscues are not considered fouls. A miscue is a foul only when the secondary contact is clearly visible or obvious due to the action of the shot. For more info, examples, and numerous video demonstrations, see:

Regards,
Dave
 
Back
Top