Shipping iv0ry question.

ShootingArts said:
... Borrowed" from Joe's site:
Please Note: All pre-ban elephant ivory must be sold to U.S. customers only who reside in the State of Florida. NO INTERSTATE SALES OR PURCHASES. - no exceptions . It is illegal to transport to a foreign country.
...
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And I believe it is illegal to sell ivory within California. Copied from a website, so it may or may not be true:

As background, NRDC helped pass legislation in 2015 (now California Fish and Game Code section 2022) making it illegal to sell, offer for sale, possess with intent to sell, and import with intent to sell elephant ivory in California. It also increased penalties to up to $50,000 or twice the value of the goods, whichever is greater, and/or one year in prison.​
 
Many years ago, I was the inbetween for two guys. One from Taiwan and one who was suppose to be a friend here. I asked, does it have ivory. My friend said No!
BULLSHIT! It got flagged. It had ivory from pool balls in the 1940's according to the Cue maker. Customs officer called me. I was ripped. I said, I didn't know. KEEP THE CUE. The officer said, it doesn't matter, it's addressed to you and your getting fined and put on our list. I said. Listen! This is bullshit. He said. You listen. We can do basically what ever we want. Come to your house, take your computer and just turn your life upside down. PERIOD!
Make the two parties pay the fine, your on the list. End of story. Customs then shipped me the cue when the fine was paid. And this was way before the Gina cues incident. It's no joke. They're not playing.
 
Folks, do a forum search on ivory. I have posted the link 1/2 dozen times about ivory.
Interstate shipping is perfectly legal but there are specific states that have banned any
ivory sales/purchases so you can’t ship to or from those states for any sale purposes.

The federal law is crystal clear but every state can adopt its own version of ivory ban.
How is it that after all this time some people still don’t understand the law & let’s face
it, some folks don’t care and flagrantly violate the law. Just look at the residence of
some Azeris posting a sale of a cue with ivory ferries or joint etc. and their own state
has banned ivory but there they are listing a cue for sale.in open violation of the law.

Face it. Some folks are going to think & in turn act they way they want regardless of
what the law is or the consequences......up until they get caught and then they start
whining about how unfair this is and blah.....blah....blah....just like a criminal in court
which is where they might discover themselves......Obladi Oblada.....to each their own.
 
US fish and wildlife

Bavafongoul said:
Folks, do a forum search on ivory. I have posted the link 1/2 dozen times about ivory.
Interstate shipping is perfectly legal but there are specific states that have banned any
ivory sales/purchases so you can’t ship to or from those states for any sale purposes.

The federal law is crystal clear but every state can adopt its own version of ivory ban.
How is it that after all this time some people still don’t understand the law & let’s face
it, some folks don’t care and flagrantly violate the law. Just look at the residence of
some Azeris posting a sale of a cue with ivory ferries or joint etc. and their own state
has banned ivory but there they are listing a cue for sale.in open violation of the law.

Face it. Some folks are going to think & in turn act they way they want regardless of
what the law is or the consequences......up until they get caught and then they start
whining about how unfair this is and blah.....blah....blah....just like a criminal in court
which is where they might discover themselves......Obladi Oblada.....to each their own.
Click to expand...


I think you may be a bit behind the curve. The laws governing interstate trade changed in 2016.

This looks to be the US fish and wildlife service. I think I will defer to them. Those interested need to read what is allowed to cross state lines. Try meeting and proving you meet those criteria.

Hu

https://www.fws.gov/international/travel-and-trade/ivory-ban-questions-and-answers.html
 
Beg to differ...ICC has never been affected by the Federal law banning ivory that addresses
shipments that cross US borders, not within our borders. State enforcement action is based
upon the individual state and in CA, Fish & Wildlife is the agency. But all Federal enforcement
is under the Department of Interior’s authority that does not have a single thing to do with
Interstate Commerce. And all intrastate commerce is regulated by the respective states and
Ivory happens to be banned in several states which started with New York in 2014, then New
Jersey, and in turn California, and others as well. I’ve followed the ivory issue for the past five
years very closely for obvious reasons. The ban has curtailed my cue collecting efforts and
kept me from adding a very special cue I so badly want but it is either ivory or go home for me.
 
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Bavafongoul said:
Beg to differ...ICC has never been affected by the Federal law banning ivory that addresses
shipments that cross US borders, not within our borders. State enforcement action is based
upon the individual state and in CA, Fish & Wildlife is the agency. But all Federal enforcement
is under the Department of Interior’s authority that does not have a single thing to do with
Interstate Commerce. And all intrastate commerce is regulated by the respective states and
Ivory happens to be banned in several states which started with New York in 2014, then New
Jersey, and in turn California, and others as well. I’ve followed the ivory issue for the past five
years very closely for obvious reasons. The ban has curtailed my cue collecting efforts and
kept me from adding a very special cue I so badly want but it is either ivory or go home for me.
Click to expand...

Y'all are some law abiding citizens. I say the Government can't tell me a GD thing, If I want to shoot pool with a Elephant tusk I will.
 
Don’t Get Caught.......

Okay....hopefully this is the last time I will have to post this link but I harbor doubts.

www.aaps-journal.org/journal/fossil-ivory-legislation.html.

There are nine (9) states that have enacted some version of banning ivory and others
are considering it. This site also has links you can access and browse away but the
de minimis and antique exceptions do not apply to pool cues. Any decisions to try
and regulate Interstate Commerce by FWS are not legally binding which the Federal
Ivory Ban makes lucidly clear.

Ivory is admittedly controversial and when it comes to pool cues, it’s a subject that stirs
strong opinions both pro and con. Be careful what you read and take time to learn firsthand
by doing your own research. Form an intelligent opinion and then act accordingly when it
involves buying or selling pool cues. If you get caught breaking the law, don’t shed crocodile
tears or complain about ignorance of the law either. It is a very simple, straightforward issue.
 
But if you're only importing "ivxry" or "iv0ry", and not "ivory" then you should be fine.

You should also be able to import "ivxxx", "IV", "good stuff", and "natural material."

Just no "ivory." :thumbup:
 
I decided to delete most of the message I had just written. I will only say this. I got lucky a couple of times and I won't push my luck any further. :confused:
 
Yup!

jay helfert said:
I decided to delete most of the message I had just written. I will only say this. I got lucky a couple of times and I won't push my luck any further. :confused:
Click to expand...

With keystroke recorders all around now I don't even type things knowing I will delete instead of post like I used to. People have been fired for posts and messages that they deleted while never sending. I don't know if anyone has been prosecuted for such things but I have no intention of being the first if nobody has been!

There are very few of us that haven't flown close to the wind sometimes. I have laughed many a time thinking about an old friend. He once told me "You don't break the law but you fly mighty close to the wind!" I was younger then and had less aversion to risk. I wouldn't want to spend my golden years behind bars because I got a little too deep into a gray area. With a new family I suspect that is the last thing you want too!

Hu
 
garczar said:
Canadian law is 1990 or before on elephant ivory. Can you prove WITHOUT a doubt where/when the ivory is from?? If not good luck with the law up there. Google "Canadian ivory laws". Is a pool cue worth the possible legal hassle? That's up to you i guess.
Click to expand...

You can go to jail for trying to ship it out of the country. Most likely you will get probation and around a $10,000 fine. But that beats jail time.
 
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At this point in time I won't even discuss putting it in a cue.

Starting this thread could be considered, conspiracy to smuggle across international lines.
 
The Ivory Ban Is Farsical.

There is so much ivory already here in the USA that arrived long before elephant protection
was even of any concern that ivory would never need importation into our country again.

This ivory is commonly referred to as legal ivory which by definition is ivory that was brought into the
the USA pre-1978 which is when the trading of ivory became internationally regulated & was banned.

So tons and tons of this pre-ban 1978 ivory is already here and the elephants this ivory originated with
have been deceased for many, many decades, why not allow it to be sold at market rates and at the
same time, tax it heavily with the proceeds going towards elephant conservation around the world?

It is a stupid argument to say this would only lead to more elephant poaching and smuggling because
there would be added demand for ivory in the USA. No, there wouldn’t be because the ivory already
here before 1978 is voluminous and more will not be needed. Besides, poaching already is a fact of
life and it ain’t going away and it isn’t attributable or associated in any way with black market trading
of elephant ivory in the USA.

The truth is we got the stuff, no more elephants have to die to harvest their tusks because we got more
than we’ll ever use and it can be taxed when sold with the proceeds being used for animal conservation.

Ivory’s unique properties are a wonderful component when used in constructing a pool cue. There is a
ivory being sold to cue-makers across America that reside in states that have not banned ivory sales.
Unfortunately, they can’t sell their products in nine (9) states and more are coming. And no elephants
were or are being slaughtered so that these cue-makers can obtain ivory for their cue-making either.
Now why is that, how could this be? They used ivory in their pool cues but no animals were killed.

It is because that damn stuff has been sitting here in the USA for the past five decades and much
longer from elephants that died before most readers were likely born, or maybe even their parents.

This is just stupid but it is understandable because it has become political. It happens with all things
in life when opposing forces collide. A common sense approach to ivory is needed for ivory that has
been in America for years and years before any regulations were adopted about ivory importation.

Well, that’s my take on ivory banned in California and it has prevented me from adding a pool cue
from Joel Hercek to my small collection which to this day remains my “Golden Fleece” of pool cues.


Matt B.
 
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