Shoot outs SUCK!

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like that a relative unknown got his shot but without a steady dose of the top players at each event its gonna be tough for this to survive. If i'm a local promoter and i know going in that some of the game's biggest names won't play why bother?
I saw several very good shortstops like Seamen playing this event. Guy can flat out play. If he won something like this , I'd think that might promote more involvement.

If the top guys chose to stay home, others will come.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
‘How tough can it be’ may be the better phrasing ; ) but I like the idea. Have a few randos from the hotel staff get on the table or something. Or low level players from the crowd.

I don’t know if pool should be trying to get back on TV at all. Does anyone in America even have cable anymore? I haven’t seen any for years except in hotel rooms.

Maybe pool needs a reality show. Is Tinman still doing the pool boot camp? Follow some characters as they step away from real life for 6 months to prep for the most prestigious 9 ball tournament to ever grace American soil..
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don’t know if pool should be trying to get back on TV at all. Does anyone in America even have cable anymore? I haven’t seen any for years except in hotel rooms.

i've been saying that for a while now. if i don't watch cable tv anymore, and hardly anyone i know does, how likely is it that younger generations will pick up pool from watching tv? because they definitely don't watch programmed tv. the future is in accessible streaming platforms. now even eurosport, sky, discovery etc have streaming platforms. i watch my football and snooker via those. best thing of course would be "a netflix for sports".
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's a fundamental flaw when a player can win more games over the course of two sets yet lose the match on a gaffe shot. In a short race, early 10B format anything can happen and as a result, this closes the talent gap between the two players. There's a reason 90% of the Top 10 Fargo Rated players have chosen to not participate: the format is a joke.

Yep, you can win 4-1, lose 3-4 be up 7-5 then lose on a setup shot instead of having a race to 8 and being on the hill.

Silliness.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
CSI & Predator are trying to grow the sport by appealing to the non-pool players. If the existing formats and streams were able to attract the non player, then streams wouldn't be at current levels and have numbers to be back on TV. People fail to see this ....
People fail to see this because it isn't so.

No doubt, CSI and Predator would like to draw in non-pool-players as viewers, and we'd all like to see them succeed. That said, I don't see a shred of evidence that the conception of this new tour is a significant moment in the achievement of that goal. How is this new pool series trying to reach the non-pool-player in ways not attempted previously by CSI and Predator?

The current levels of stream viewership tend to validate that pool is failing to attract pool players and non-pool-players alike. FYI, when pool disappeared from TV in America, it wasn't chiefly due to a decline in ratings, which weren't half bad. At the time, pool producers were usually buying the time slots from ESPN as well as paying all the TV production costs. Once pool's business model could no longer justify such spending, TV productions of pool became scarce in a hurry, and anyone who would lead you to believe that ESPN cared whether or not pool was on TV is selling you a bill of goods.

Once upon a time, pool could collect enough from a venue sponsor and other in-the-industry sponsors to finance the cost of a TV production including purchase of the ESPN time slot. That was then and this is now.
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
When pool is played at the highest level the casual observer thinks, "Doesn't look difficult at all. I could do that!" That's the inherit problem and why the Melling run received so many views. The casual observer watches that and thinks Melling is the best pool player of all time, seemingly hitting multiple kick shots with ease. Those of us who play know there was a fair amount of luck in it. For pool to be mainstream, there needs to be education involved in the broadcasts to demonstrate just how difficult what they are watching is. Instead of Tips from the Pro's (common during ESPN coverage of the Camel Pro Billiard Series) they could have a "How Hard Can It Be" segment where say, a three ball run is set up and a casual player is tasked to complete the run like the pro player did the rack before. Something like this may garner greater appreciation for what they are watching.

Willie Mosconi set a record that lasted 70 years, but ask the average person and don't be surprised if they answer Minnesota Fats. Same with Jeanette Lee, who was on the cover of Sports Illustrated last week. When was a top pool player was on the cover of SI?

Cartoon NBC commissioned when they introduced hockey to TV. I don't know if it helped, but Hockey is a staple on cable TV. Rollie Williams filmed a series of Youtube videos of your average pool player attempting the shots that the pros took.
 

rexus31

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know how to make it more interesting. Players who used a jump cue have to shoot the spot with the jump cue. Players who do not use a jump cue can shoot it with their playing cue.
Screen Shot 2021-10-18 at 11.47.03 AM.png
 

pwd72s

recreational banger
Silver Member
I know how to make it more interesting. Players who used a jump cue have to shoot the spot with the jump cue. Players who do not use a jump cue can shoot it with their playing cue.
LOL! Now that would make for some long matches...
 

The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
I know how to make it more interesting. Players who used a jump cue have to shoot the spot with the jump cue. Players who do not use a jump cue can shoot it with their playing cue.
Oh and those who breath through their mouths have to hold their breath.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
People love to say that pool is inherently flawed and that is why we don't have televised pool where as the real reason we stopped having televised pool was the idiotic banning of any cigarette advertising. That's why the fledgling camel pro billiards tour was canceled and pool went off the air. We need to get away from this nanny state horse crap and get back to letting people be responsible for their own decisions.

Jaden
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People love to say that pool is inherently flawed and that is why we don't have televised pool where as the real reason we stopped having televised pool was the idiotic banning of any cigarette advertising. That's why the fledgling camel pro billiards tour was canceled and pool went off the air. We need to get away from this nanny state horse crap and get back to letting people be responsible for their own decisions.

Jaden

That is probably the worst thing a responsible government can do, not just for the safety of the citizens but for general healthcare cost and time spend on issues caused by dumb people. Very few people actually do what is good for them never mind what is good for others, which is what we need to have a stable society. Even with controls people look for ways around them that will benefit them, not regarding the final cost or cost to others. I don't have any issues at all with having laws for controlling health issues or public safety in general (speed limits, substance abuse, company oversights, etc..) You want say the meat industry to go back to how they handled products a century ago? Or how workers in general were treated? That is not companies doing that, it's people at the companies doing that because they could and it was easy to do.

I mean people are so stupid they need laws to tell them that in bad weather you should have lights and wipers on and not to drive at 75mph 1 foot away from people on the side of the road.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I always said this was where pool was going to end up, spot shots. And boy was I right. When you took all the strategy, knowledge and finesse out of the game by stopping playing 8 ball and straight pool and rather playing brain dead rotation pool games, this is inevitably the outcome. Once call safe 10 ball was invented, it was only a matter of time. The removal of most of the strategic and deep parts of the game and the focus on ever narrowing pockets is what forced this development. That along with changes in equipment, like the Diamond tables with super fast cushions, ultra fast cloths and all the other stuff. You don't need a powerful stroke, you don't need a brain for tactics or patterns, all you need is pure shotmaking. Then the magic rack happened and that was all she wrote. There is no longer any randomness to the break, it's all a trick shot show, anyways, with players getting the same layout 10 times in a row. Why not make the field even and make it all about spot shots?

And now, here it is. Enjoy it, this what you all wanted. Thank God there is no law forcing anyone to play pool, there is always snooker, carom, and Chinese or UK 8 ball, if one cares to engage the brain every now and then. I'd say play 8 ball or straight pool, but there are no tournaments. For ranking points you have to play 9 and 10 ball where I live. Honestly I quit competing now. After Covid, I realized that competing in a sport where I hate 80 percent of the ranking events was a complete waste of time. Now pool is more of an occational pastime. I still love the game, the technique, the patterns the strategy of the more cerebral games (especially straight pool), but why play games you hate when there is so many more interesting things to do. I have to play 9 ball to get points, I can't even make myself practise 9 ball anymore. One thing is for sure, they'd have to threaten me at gunpoint to make me shoot spot shots competitively.
 
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alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LOL! Now that would make for some long matches...
It would force players who can't kick to learn the game and benefit players who are skilled. Unfortunately the cuemakers who sell jump cues and sponsor pool would object so it won't happen.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not a fan of the format but i don't know why people keep rattling on over total games won/lost. The winner not having won the most games happens fairly often in pro tennis yet i hear no-one bitching about it. Say this tour used a 3-set race-to-four format, the winner could have less games(0-4,4-3,4-3 for ex.). Big deal. IMO any pro pool beats no pro pool and hopefully this tour adjusts/evolves/grows.
 

Cameron Smith

is kind of hungry...
Silver Member
Not a fan of the format but i don't know why people keep rattling on over total games won/lost. The winner not having won the most games happens fairly often in pro tennis yet i hear no-one bitching about it. Say this tour used a 3-set race-to-four format, the winner could have less games(0-4,4-3,4-3 for ex.). Big deal. IMO any pro pool beats no pro pool and hopefully this tour adjusts/evolves/grows.
I mentioned it in my post simply because it’s more likely to occur in a two set match vs three. I’ve watched for it over the last few tournaments and it still isn’t that common. But with 3 sets I would expect it to be even more of a rarity.

I agree though that some pro pool is better than no pro pool.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I mentioned it in my post simply because it’s more likely to occur in a two set match vs three. I’ve watched for it over the last few tournaments and it still isn’t that common. But with 3 sets I would expect it to be even more of a rarity.

I agree though that some pro pool is better than no pro pool.
My point is its not a big deal. Happens all the time playing multiple sets for money. You can be down on total games and still walk with the $$. These players know going in what the format is. Don't like it don't play. They play 'cause the money is pretty good.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
My point is its not a big deal. Happens all the time playing multiple sets for money. You can be down on total games and still walk with the $$. These players know going in what the format is. Don't like it don't play. They play 'cause the money is pretty good.
Yes. Or even.

Me doing Races to five against you for $100..we play 4 sets:

Winner DM 5-4
Winner DM 5-4
Winner GZ 5-0
Winner GZ 5-2

We break even.....but you won more games! Enough more that I feel lucky I started off good and may be looking for a reason to stop! :eek:
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Spot shots:

Remember when it was a fun action game to bet on and to trade spot shots for cash?

Some were monsters at it! Others total dogs.
 
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