short-spliced forearm question

swest

swest

goldmember
Silver Member
I have a kind of nit-picky question about short-spliced forearms.

Let's say that someone took a full butt (29"), and inlayed some points with veneers so that the inlayed points barely extended into the handle area.

Then let's say that same person, took that same inlayed butt and cut it right at the top of the handle area so that all that was left was the forearm portion (such that, if he/she wanted to turn it back into a useable butt, a handle would be attached via tenoning).

How would the resulting forearm differ from a short-spliced forearm with veneers?

Thanks, and I'll take my answer off-the-air...
 
swest said:
I have a kind of nit-picky question about short-spliced forearms.

Let's say that someone took a full butt (29"), and inlayed some points with veneers so that the inlayed points barely extended into the handle area.

Then let's say that same person, took that same inlayed butt and cut it right at the top of the handle area so that all that was left was the forearm portion (such that, if he/she wanted to turn it back into a useable butt, a handle would be attached via tenoning).

How would the resulting forearm differ from a short-spliced forearm with veneers?

Thanks, and I'll take my answer off-the-air...
Click to expand...

----------------------------------------------------------------

"How would the resulting forearm differ from a short-spliced forearm with veneers?".

--------------------------------------------------------------------

It would not differ at all.

<Answered on-air because other inquiring minds might want to know also>

Dale
 
One would still be inlays/flatbottom and the other v-splice/half splice.

You wouldn't have to go into the handle this can be done on a front alone just mill the pocket with the cutter going past the end of the forearm and then face it off.

The big diffrence would be the radius at the tip of the points. There are guys that can inlay super sharp points but I find it easier to do a halfsplice, and less costly.
 
swest said:
Thanks, and I'll take my answer off-the-air...
Click to expand...

Sorry, just a talk-radio-call-in-show reference... :o I did want to read your answer here.

And thanks for those answers.

Yes, I forgot that the results of the inlay method would be flat-bottomed.

I guess my motivation for the question really stems from the notion that the short-splice is a 'splice' at all... It really isn't. Just because you routered the points with a v-shaped router bit (to get them pointed), you still just lay the point material + veneers into the routered groove and glue 'em. Right?

A full-splice is a 'splice' of two chunks of wood, butt and forearm, but I don't see how a short-splice is a splice when you're only getting the points.

Am I missing something in that?

Thanks, again.
 
Technically all points in a cue are a splice as its 2 woods/materials spliced together whether it be flat bottom, full or half splice. The reason we have different names for them are so we can communicate on how a cue is built, other than that who cares as long as the execution ends with a solid cue?

heres the definition. for wood splice

TRANSITIVE VERB
spliced past and past participle
splic·ing present participle
splic·es 3rd person present singular

Splice:
join pieces of wood: to join two pieces of wood by overlapping them and bolting or otherwise attaching them.
 
The splicing, is the joining of the handle & the forearm. As far as I'm concerned the "points" are simply glued into the slots formed by either the "V" cutter or the
"flat bottomed" cutter. I don't think the term "spliced" has anything to do with the assembly of the points...JER
P.S. I have done exactly this method, many times. If asked, I would tell the customer that it is a sliced assembly, with flat, inlayed points. Many well known cuemaker including Schon, Mcdermott, Joss, Viking & Peachauer Have assembled cues, using flat bottomed points.
 
Rabbit said:
Technically all points in a cue are a splice as its 2 woods/materials spliced together whether it be flat bottom, full or half splice. The reason we have different names for them are so we can communicate on how a cue is built, other than that who cares as long as the execution ends with a solid cue?

heres the definition. for wood splice

TRANSITIVE VERB
spliced past and past participle
splic·ing present participle
splic·es 3rd person present singular

Splice:
join pieces of wood: to join two pieces of wood by overlapping them and bolting or otherwise attaching them.
Click to expand...

I tend to disagree with flat bottom inlays being a splice at all.
They are just inlays no matter how long they are.
The term short splice is actually wrong also, when applied to normal v-groove inlaid points, but it is a term misused for so long that it is now accepted, and I even use it because people think that is what it means.
Burton Spain made full splice point blanks that were the full length of a butt. These were called the "full splice". He also made forearms called "short splice" that were done just like the full splice, but were shorter. In other words he used the same splice method we call full splice, but it was only a little over a foot long.
 
cueman said:
.
.
it is a term misused for so long that it is now accepted, and I even use it because people think that is what it means.
Click to expand...

Ok, that makes sense.

cueman said:
Burton Spain made full splice point blanks that were the full length of a butt. These were called the "full splice". He also made forearms called "short splice" that were done just like the full splice, but were shorter. In other words he used the same splice method we call full splice, but it was only a little over a foot long.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the enlightenment.
 
swest said:
Sorry, just a talk-radio-call-in-show reference... :o I did want to read your answer here.

And thanks for those answers.

Yes, I forgot that the results of the inlay method would be flat-bottomed.

I guess my motivation for the question really stems from the notion that the short-splice is a 'splice' at all... It really isn't. Just because you routered the points with a v-shaped router bit (to get them pointed), you still just lay the point material + veneers into the routered groove and glue 'em. Right?

A full-splice is a 'splice' of two chunks of wood, butt and forearm, but I don't see how a short-splice is a splice when you're only getting the points.

Am I missing something in that?

Thanks, again.
Click to expand...

Ok, now that we have some clarification - I thought you ment points
spliced into the handle - so a bit of a mis-read on my part.

You are correct - half-spliced are not spliced at all - they are a
lammination that is done at an angle into a "v" groove.

Just a quick review of the English language, splice is defined as a joining
of two parts end-to-end.

It is true that cutting a fullsplice at the back end of the splice yields a
forearm now just the same as a half-splice.

So, would that mean you have un-spliced it??

Dale
 
It's good to get clarification

Chris why don't you have the terminology changed for clarification once and for all time? If you continually use the new correct definition it will become law.

cueman said:
I tend to disagree with flat bottom inlays being a splice at all.
They are just inlays no matter how long they are.
The term short splice is actually wrong also, when applied to normal v-groove inlaid points, but it is a term misused for so long that it is now accepted, and I even use it because people think that is what it means.
Burton Spain made full splice point blanks that were the full length of a butt. These were called the "full splice". He also made forearms called "short splice" that were done just like the full splice, but were shorter. In other words he used the same splice method we call full splice, but it was only a little over a foot long.
Click to expand...
 
the kidd said:
Chris why don't you have the terminology changed for clarification once and for all time? If you continually use the new correct definition it will become law.
Click to expand...

Change it where ?
At Wikipedia?
Include pro- taper, compound and parabolic tapers.
 
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cueman said:
I tend to disagree with flat bottom inlays being a splice at all.
They are just inlays no matter how long they are.
The term short splice is actually wrong also, when applied to normal v-groove inlaid points, but it is a term misused for so long that it is now accepted, and I even use it because people think that is what it means.
Burton Spain made full splice point blanks that were the full length of a butt. These were called the "full splice". He also made forearms called "short splice" that were done just like the full splice, but were shorter. In other words he used the same splice method we call full splice, but it was only a little over a foot long.
Click to expand...

YEP!...well said
 
the kidd said:
Chris why don't you have the terminology changed for clarification once and for all time? If you continually use the new correct definition it will become law.
Click to expand...

I usually use the term V-Grooved points for the normal type of forearm we all make, and Full Splice for the real type of splice whether it is the short splice, long splice or butterfly splice.
It is just like the A-Joint/Wrap joint. People call the ring in the A-Joint the C-Ring, as it is the third ring. But theb they get all confused at where to start the A and B rings, whether they are the joint rings or the butt sleeve rings. :confused:
So it all gets confusing, but since the terms have been around for decades I doubt I could change much.
 
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the kidd said:
Change it you change it Chris change it everyone who agrees change it...but first it needs a name.
Click to expand...

It already has a name. And, it's one that everyone already understands.

Here is my understanding of the names currently used, and the time lines over which they came to be.

Full Splice
These were originally built as one piece cues by companies like Brunswick. Burton Spain set out to improve them, and when he did, he called it the "Full Splice". The full splice is what we all know as having one piece of wood that is splice into another piece of wood. If you've got one piece on one end and another piece on the the other, it's a full splice.

Short Splice
Again, Burton Spain came up with the name, "Short Splice". The reason for it was that many wanted to have the front end of the full splice, but with a maple handle. So, Burton made his legendary full splice with a short piece for the bottom. With the short splice there are still 2 pieces spliced together, it's just that the bottom piece only extends a few inches below the points. Cuemakers would take the short splice and attach a handle, butt sleeve and build a cue that looked like a full splice but could be weighted and balanced differently.

Half Splice
I'm not sure where this one came from, but it has come to be known as the term for a forearm with 4 separate V bottomed points. This is by far the most common form of construction.


I know that the terms may not fit exactly, by definition, what they describe. But, they are what is understood and what is accepted as the standard term. It's just like the term "Low Deflection". It is really understood as "Low Cue Ball Squirt", but it is what is understood by the masses. I always attempt to clarify these terms, but I hold no belief that I or anyone else can choose to change what the masses believe certain words mean. It's more cultural than anything else.

Well, those are my thought anyway.
 
Wonderful that's a great explanation

Thanks you for that great explanation I needed it. Of course I'm a bit senile so I forgot the question already.;);):):o

RBC said:
It already has a name. And, it's one that everyone already understands.

Here is my understanding of the names currently used, and the time lines over which they came to be.

Full Splice
These were originally built as one piece cues by companies like Brunswick. Burton Spain set out to improve them, and when he did, he called it the "Full Splice". The full splice is what we all know as having one piece of wood that is splice into another piece of wood. If you've got one piece on one end and another piece on the the other, it's a full splice.

Short Splice
Again, Burton Spain came up with the name, "Short Splice". The reason for it was that many wanted to have the front end of the full splice, but with a maple handle. So, Burton made his legendary full splice with a short piece for the bottom. With the short splice there are still 2 pieces spliced together, it's just that the bottom piece only extends a few inches below the points. Cuemakers would take the short splice and attach a handle, butt sleeve and build a cue that looked like a full splice but could be weighted and balanced differently.

Half Splice
I'm not sure where this one came from, but it has come to be known as the term for a forearm with 4 separate V bottomed points. This is by far the most common form of construction.


I know that the terms may not fit exactly, by definition, what they describe. But, they are what is understood and what is accepted as the standard term. It's just like the term "Low Deflection". It is really understood as "Low Cue Ball Squirt", but it is what is understood by the masses. I always attempt to clarify these terms, but I hold no belief that I or anyone else can choose to change what the masses believe certain words mean. It's more cultural than anything else.

Well, those are my thought anyway.
Click to expand...
 
Hi,

Being a certified welder in my past life I can tell you that when joining two objects together that when the joint is stressed or subjected to forces that exceed the limits of the materisls (destructive testing) the failure in the joint areas fail in what is call the tranition zone.

In welding, if the weld is performed correctly the destructive failure from over burden loads always occurs in the parent metal adjacent to the weld bead itself.

Because the modulus of the glues used today is stronger than the woods used to make cues is a higher psi than the wood, the results from the destructive loads should also cause failure in the transition zone or the wood fails before the glued joint.

That being said, I believe that the geometry of the butt taper and the wood species used effects the hit factor produces by the butt. The joinery after the final turning does not have that much induced causal effect on the hit or feel. It is all about the wood. IMO.

Again, Just my opinion,

Rick
 
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