Shot with a Southwest for the first time tonight...

I have a $1300 unwrapped Scruggs & a $290
unwrapped Shurtz. Very, very similar in my mind.
I really like them both. Great feel to them.



Snapshot9 said:
in 45 years of playing, I've had many occasions, to hit with a few cues by famous cuemakers, not for any length of time, but to just get the nickel tour of them. The old Joss's (much better than current ones, IMO), bushka's (was too forward weighted, and shaft too fat for me), Anderson's, old Palmers, and a few older Southwests.

I have a friend who has an older Southwest, about a $2800 one, probably go for $3300+ today with nice inlays on it (not one of the overpriced plain ones), and I compared it directly to my $1,100 Shurtz cue. I could not hardly distinguish a difference between the cues at all. The Southwest did not have fat shafts. The hit was almost undistinguishable. My Shurtz had a hard hercules layered tip, the Southwest had a hard Moori tip. The hit and feel on both cues felt good to me, but the most noticeable difference, which was minute, was the balance of the cues. My Shurtz was a little more forward balanced(19"), where it felt like the weight was evenly distributed inbetween my grip and bridge than the Southwest was.The Southwest balance felt slightly more towards my grip hand a little.

Overall, I felt more comfortable with my Shurtz, although I would not been unhappy with the Southwest. Like I said, the differences were very small overall. I may have been slightly prejudiced, but I really did try NOT to be, and maintain a 'scientific' type attitude when evaluating them.
I do have to state though, the Southwest had a regular butt, my Shurtz has a slimline butt.

It, did however, make me appreciate my $1,100 Shurtz cue all the more.
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I think most sticks over the price of $200.00 are over rated. Yes, including my own. Over that price you should be simply paying for pretty. After you get to about $200.00 worth of quality, at least 75% of how a stick feels depends on what tip it has on it. Isn't this correct?
 
JoeyA said:
Southwest Cues has one of the best marketing plans on the planet.....

The truth is that their are MANY well made cues out there these days. You just have to find the one that YOU like best and that's the hard part.
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Southwest Cues marketing plan is "Supply & Demand" equals people want to have one and they're willing to pay premium price to get it.

I bought and sold a bunch of cues before I found the type of cue that suited me. I kept searching for a cue with a better hit and feel than the one I was playing with and I found out a lot about cues and the different joint styles, shaft tapers, cue weights, balance, etc. I tried the cue makers shafts versus predator shafts and I like the way the predator shafts play on my custom cue butt. Like you said "find the one that YOU like best".
 
tip is very important.also since i am a woodworker (not a cuemaker) i can tell you that old growth lumber (density of the wood )is very important as to hit and feel.old growth lumber will cost more but is well worth it.good luck on your playing everyone and Merry Christmas.:)
 
I'm glad this thread didn't turn into an arguement. I know a lot of people here love thier SW cues and I'm glad to see thier opinions. I of course won't make any final opinions to the way they hit just because I played with one. There were lots of good posts made here. To answer a few, I don't think I have a bias for any particular cue I've been playing with because the only cue I've been playing with is a new Scruggs I got 3 weeks ago. Before that I've been switching between a scruggs sneaky, a gilbert and a schon/OB-1. Those were my main players over the past few months. This new scruggs blew me over after a few racks. Maybe I'm partial to scruggs in general because I played with one of his sneakies for the past 3 months. I've also played with a gilbert longer but didn't like as much.

I totally agree that it doesn't matter who makes the cue or how much you paid so long as you're happy. Again I didn't say in any way the SW was bad. It was solid and nice. I guess I'm a victim of the overly hyped legendary hit and was expecting to be blown away. Perhaps when you're not looking for anything exceptional and it comes your way a person becomes more impressed. I did like how quite the cue hit though, I'd probably buy one used instead of waiting 7-8 years.
 
BrooklynJay said:
Not a cue historian by any means but from what I remember when SW first came out not a lot of cues had that big brass radial pin.
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FWIW, they don't use a radial pin. And they weren't the first to use a big pin into wood either.

But, I definitely think they popularized it, they popularized the 3 high/3 low look, they popularized the wood color combo without inlay, and they popularized making each step of construction super consistent.

I absolutely agree with the rest of your post. South West was the standard bearer. If others have caught and surpassed South West, it's because of South West setting the goal to be caught.

Their refusal to stray far from the original recipe hasn't seemed to hurt their sales. But the result is that each cue can feel different based on the wood choices. Personally, I'd like to see them core their cues so that each wood combination could play closer to the same as each other, and there wouldn't be so much "too heavy" reports. Even a Coco forearm for them is going to start at 19 1/4 oz.

Fred
 
twilight said:
So a guy walks in and has a southwest cue. I have never shot with one up to this point. With all the hype and how hot these cues are on ebay, I asked if I could hit with his cue. After hitting with it I felt I should have been more impressed. Now I want to make it clear I'm not knocking Southwest cues. This cue was definately great looking and felt solid, but I was somehow expecting some more from it. I know hit is subjective and not all Southwest cues have that magical feel about them but for some reason I thought they'd feel better.

I once asked a cue distributer who had a good amount of southwests and he told me quite frankly they're over rated. This from a guy who is selling them. I thought he was crazy, surely all the good things I hear about southwest cues couldn't be wrong?! I'm starting to wonder now if they aren't over-hyped? Am I alone in this thought? Again, not knocking them, or trying to start an arguement.
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Maybe it was too much cue for you :)
 
hondo said:
When I 1st got on the forums all I heard about was how great
Mike Benders were. I couldn't wait to get one and finally bought
a used 10 point Bender at DCC last year for almost $1400. I've been really
disappointed. Stiff hitting, not much feel to me.
I've got several cues that just feel so much better to me- Kikel, Olney,
Scruggs, Dale Perry( !!!!!).
Of course I realize hit is extremely objective. Just telling you I had
a similar experience with a different stick.
I've also been somewhat disappointed with a used Mottey that I
paid over $2000 for. But, damn, is it pretty!
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How much do you want for that old Bender?
Email pics and price to my PM.

Thanks,
JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
How much do you want for that old Bender?
Email pics and price to my PM.

Thanks,
JoeyA
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Pictures are on a thread I had on buy/sell a month or so
ago. I paid $1375 for it last year at DCC. I would trade for
a cue of comparable value. Comes with 2 shafts.
 
gromulan said:
Maybe it was too much cue for you :)
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my cue cost about the same as his... so it wasn't the price :D
it was the same lenght...:eek:
maybe it was too heavy! ;)
 
Then again...

...to some players, it just doesn't matter...
Earl Strickland...Cuetec
Allison Fisher...Cuetec
Johnny Archer...Scorpion

I am certain there are others who do the same.

Couple of months back, a guy came through the pool hall. He had a 4x8 cue case. He pulled out 4 of the cheapest, gaudiest graphite/fiberglass cues I had ever seen...red cue, red shaft...black cue, black shaft, white cue...well, you get the picture.

Then he waxed everybody he played...
 
> One thing we have to keep in mind is that the overall Southwest design,as far as shaft/butt tapers,is essentially a Kersenbrock. When David was teaching Jerry,the machines were set up by David,therefore the tapers were very similar if not completely identical. Maybe things have changed along the way,for better or worse. My experiences with SW have been really mixed. I've hit balls with probably 20 different ones,all different forearm woods,point woods,different eras of construction,and levels of options. The ones I've liked best all had one thing in common,either Micarta ferrules or ivory. The ones I've hit with that had the LBM or Ivorine ferrules all felt like glorified McDermotts,just a dull thud with no crispness or "ping". A local guy that has a nice job but isn't a hardcore player has a BEM SW with ebony points,that I'd take another guys Radial pinned Lucasi over. I really like the feel of the stiffer tapered shafts too,as long as they aren't over 13.125 or so. Tommy D.
 
SW heavy Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to Roy Malot webb site Indycue.com. He has 5 different full shaft SW
the lighest is 19.6. The coco Cornerman is talking about is over 20oz. What do you do Cornerman make this stuff up as you go along. If you tune up the shafts you end up with a butt heavy out of balance cue. If thats the feel you like I understand what your saying I guess.

Pinocchio
 
I see many people (not everyone) who've been on the SW waiting list for years who finally get their cues and turn around and sell them for a profit. It's like they are buying them to sell and not to keep as a playing cue.[/QUOTE]


unfortunately very true,i called one time before jerry passed to check on my order and was lucky enough to talk to him,when i asked him how much longer my cue would be and that i couldn't wait to play with it he told me that he loved hearing that,thst he said he made his cues to play with,not to be collected or resold.that is why the maximum order is two cues per person.
 
Pinocchio said:
Go to Roy Malot webb site Indycue.com. He has 5 different full shaft SW
the lighest is 19.6. The coco Cornerman is talking about is over 20oz. What do you do Cornerman make this stuff up as you go along. If you tune up the shafts you end up with a butt heavy out of balance cue. If thats the feel you like I understand what your saying I guess.

Pinocchio
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What the hell are you talking about??? What did I say that disagrees with anything you said??? I said they're heavier and gave areason why they're heavier. My coco forearm order is going to be 19 1/4. Laurie says she can't go lower. You're going to disagree with that???

Are YOU making things up as you go along???
 
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When your wrong your wrong!

Your'e right an I am wrong. I didn't read your entire post just focused on the to heavy an the 19-1/4. This is not the first time i've been wrong an probably won't be the last. It could have been the Jack Daniels. SORRY ABOUT THAT!
Pinocchio
 
Pinocchio said:
Your'e right an I am wrong. I didn't read your entire post just focused on the to heavy an the 19-1/4. This is not the first time i've been wrong an probably won't be the last. It could have been the Jack Daniels. SORRY ABOUT THAT!
Pinocchio
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We're good.

Fred
 
Cornerman said:
Personally, I'd like to see them core their cues so that each wood combination could play closer to the same as each other, and there wouldn't be so much "too heavy" reports. Even a Coco forearm for them is going to start at 19 1/4 oz.

Fred
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I think they should offer the option to core, but I like having the distinct feel of different woods, even from the same maker. I also dislike the feel of most maple-nosed cues, and a maker like Capone who cores everything with maple will probably never have a cue that appeals to me.

-Roger (will consider maple with ebony core)
 
first of all i must say i'm impressed.... i clicked on this thread as an avid SW collector and player, and expected this big usual AZ flame war name callin' bashin' awaiting Mr Wilson to delete the thread kinda thing.... i actually am very impressed with the direction the thread took and all the info contained with in...

anyhow, i am SouthWest addict. Are they the prettiest cues- no not really, definitely not the most elaborate <barring the fancy ones they don't make anymore> They are consistent in my opinion. I play 20+ hours a week with my southwest. I really have only owned it and been addicted to cues for the past 18 months.... i have tried 20 different cuemakers and all kinds of woods and pins and weights etc.... i always go back to my southwest. When i try a new cue- i try it for a couple weeks off and on for a descent 'get used to it period' and assess how it 'hits' comparitively to the ones i like and dislike. I discovered i don't like steel joints. I do like wood to wood. I say ok to ivory b ut like the linen based whatever that SW and others use as sleeves to their wood to wood joints. I like yellow micarta ferrules <if you can get your hands on someone that has some and change one of your shafts over- dig deep into your wallet and do it!! Like it alot better than ivory-cost about the same> I use moori tips. When i find a cue i like and figure i may play with it a while when not using my SW, I run right to 'my guy' and put a moori medium on it... that takes the subjectiveness of the hit of a tip out of the picture.....

I have been content with the 5 SW i own <none are maple nosed>, and the 15 or so i've played with. I find if I grab someone else's SW i can usually adjust quickly and consistently in my stroke and play just fine with it. But if i grab someones Weston, Scruggs or something else, it may take me all night to find my stroke... just what i have noticed... Sure the woods make a little difference and the weight may be a little off, but the balance and 'feel' of the SW is just consistent in my opinion. I like consistency.

So i will continue to play with my SW although i did just pick up a TNS i absolutely love. I played with it 5 minutes and had to have it. IT hit that good. Had it a week now and it's definitely one of the top dogs i've ever owned <and i as a junkiee don't even know what kind of wood it's made of :-)>

I will sell and turn all my cues, and buy and sell many more... BUT i will always have a SW, and it will be in my bag when i go out to shoot seriously.... and the big plus is i can always get what i bought it for...
just my .02

the hunt for the perfect hitting, perfect balanced cue for you will never end...if you're a junkiee like me :-)
 
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