Should a person born male with XY chromosomes be able to play women's sports (pool)?

Should a person born male with XY chromosomes be able to play women's sports (pool)

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 15.6%
  • No

    Votes: 81 84.4%

  • Total voters
    96
Actually there was a transexual in California in the mid-90s that played in several regional WPBA events and I believe she played in a couple of pro events. There was some controversy at the time, but she was allowed to play. Her name is Lauren Ward.
 
they're debating letting pre-op trannie boys use the girls restrooms at schools so it wouldn't surprise me at all. I don't think so though, although whether you were born with a penis or not should not matter much in pool. It's not like you're expected to dunk the cue ball in a 10 foot tall pocket or tackle your opponent.

I think they should make a transsexual bathroom for these people.
 
The question need not be asked until an identifying women tries to play an official event who has the XY chromosomes in qustion. I do not think the current women have the XY thing though some of them are fairly masculine and probably are the top to their partners bottom.

If it comes to that and the event is played in New York there is prior law, I am refering to Renée Richards (born August 19, 1934) is an American ophthalmologist, author and former professional tennis player. In 1975, Richards underwent sex reassignment surgery. She was denied entry into the 1976 US Open by the United States Tennis Association, citing an unprecedented women-born-women policy. She disputed the ban, and the New York Supreme Court ruled in her favor in 1977. This was a landmark decision in favor of transsexual rights.[2]

I think it is an interesting question Dora as the women want to be included without barriers in the working world, beaing able to break the glass ceiling, wage equality but perhaps some of them want a protected environment for things such as sports, perhaps others would say let anyone who doesnt dangle play.

As for me if it come to an XY person getting the change then trying to play in a WPBA event I will bet 10k and take the field and let whoever wants it to take the was man now woman if they want action. The same holds true for any major tennis or golf event. Contact me when it is ready to go. I got the field of women and am giving up the player who is changing sides and wants to bat for the XX's.

I have no moral problem with anyone who lives their life anyway they want to without hurting anyone else be it recreational, sexual, spiritual etc etc. I dont think any less or more of them. I have close gay friends.

I also think women and men are different.
Here is an interesting story of a transsexual MMA fighter Fallon Fox. He beats women in fights by brutal knock out. This is insane to me. Why even have any division between female and male athletes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6_7BOGUXHM

Heres the story of Francis Anderson. A he who won all the ladies tournys. You woulda lost your 10k back then. The sad thing is is that no one knows who the real woman's champ was back then.
http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2007/03/is-frances-anderson-real-person.html#.UjueMvvD98Q
 
As a self proclaimed skeptic with a basic understanding of genetics it is an over simple-faction to use the xy chromosome as the singular factor in determining sexual identity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658794/

Bert

Im going to change my question for you.

Should a person born a man with a penis, testicles, XY chromosomes, grows facial hair, was known as a man for decades, has no ovaries, can not menstruate, does not produce eggs, does not have a vagina, takes drugs (hormones), does not have XX chromosomes, if left alone on an island without ingesting synthetic hormones will look like a man, be allowed to play womans sports (pool)?
 
No and anyone in that situation should just have the good sense to just to stay out of it. I mean wtf? Have ur wang cut off and immediately play womens competitive pool?

Go ahead-Get laid, have a ball- become a foot model!!- Yeah foot model! Why not try that??
 
Heres the story of Francis Anderson. A he who won all the ladies tournys. You woulda lost your 10k back then. The sad thing is is that no one knows who the real woman's champ was back then.
http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2007/03/is-frances-anderson-real-person.html#.UjueMvvD98Q

Frances Anderson (1871 - 1928) billiards champion




Revised 6/2/1012.

Frances Anderson was the first female billiards champion, from the 1890s. At that time there were very few women's touraments. Frances, from Kansas or Indiana, offered $5,000 to any woman who could beat her, and went undefeated for 25 years. She also beat most of the men whom she played against. She was paid well for her appearances, taking on challengers and giving exhibitions, even into the 1920s, and toured North America and Europe.

By the late 1920s she was aging, and her nerves and eyes were letting her down, and was often ill. She wasn't the first professional billiards player to take the suicide route. She chose her end in a hotel room in Sapulapa, Oklahoma in 1928. Only when her body arrived at the mortuary was it discovered that she was male-bodied. A Mrs W.D. May (née Anderson) read the newspaper accounts and travelled to Sapulapa to identify the body, whom she claimed as her missing brother, Orie. She produced an 18-year letter and the writing matched writing by the deceased. The body was released to the Anderson family who took it back to Newton, Kansas for burial.

Read more: http://zagria.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-frances-anderson-real-person.html#ixzz2fORsejIf
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution



Thanks for the link Dorabelle that is an interesting read but that is not at all what I am talking about that person "Frances Anderson" was a cross dresser, has not had sexual reassignment, taking drugs to repress manliness and make boobs etc and tried to live as a women other than dressing however he/she did at that time, what I am willing to bet is that todays modern women who are very confident and comfortable in their respective sports they play (golf,tennis,pool) can defend the honor of womanhood in their chosen sport. Let me know when they have a transgender reassigned individual who is trying to play a major event with all of the XX champions in attendance and you or whoever has action. The player in question must have had the surgery and be taking the drugs whatever to be more woman like to qualify, not be full blown raging testosterone hiding in a dress.

Personally I don't think SVB, Earl, Efren or even Richie Richardson (farther down the list type player) is going to look at crossing over anytime soon, would have to be a pretty strong player for me to think one person is a favorite versus the field. Past the top 100 men many of the women can win some matches for sure. I have seen Jeanette beat some men with a big name who were in the top 100 playing even in regional events, the same for other top women they can and they have beat men in tournament races playing rotation pool specifically 9 ball, plenty of women have prevailed against top men so no man is guaranteed a win against a field and a man who needed to be a women might just be more focused on sexuality than on the match. Enough of the women play at a high level it would take a full blown stone cold champion to be close to being guaranteed a tournament win and even then anything can happen in a race and they have multiple races to win a tourney. I think todays modern female fields have some decent players so Frances whoever would not have had to have won against everyone was such an event held today.

BTW - How did Frances do against the "men champions" of the day did she ever give such a match a shot?


I looked some more for info on what games Frances played did not find that but here is the memorial writeup about him/her

I found it here http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=24752081
They even had a picture of the gravestone, how small the internet makes the world - wow.

Birth: 1871
Death: 1928

Frank O. Anderson
The body of Frank O. Anderson was brought to Newton Tuesday from Sapulpa, Okla., and a private funeral service was conducted at the Sprinkler Mortuary this morning at 10 o'clock by the Rev. A. R. Hardy, pastor of the Baptist church. Interment was made in Greenwood Cemetery.

The case of "Orrie" Anderson is peculiarly strange and sad. He came of fine family, was unusually keen mentally, though not robust physically. He was high strung tempermentally, independent in his disposition, and estranged himself from his family years ago, when he was remonstrated with about gaming, and he told relatives that he would go away, that they would not hear of him again, and would not even know when not where he died.

About two weeks ago, a man who for many years had posed as a woman by the name of Frances Anderson, "champion woman billiard player," committed suicide in a hotel at Sapulpa, Okla. Descriptions of the man, after his sex was disclosed, aroused the interest of relatives of "Orie Anderson who lived here. Mrs W.D. May is a sister, Joy Anderson is a brother, and another brother George, lives in San Francisco. Mrs. May finally went to Sapulpa to endeavor to identify the body, and was convinced that "Francis" Anderson was her estranged brother. She had letters and a postal card received from him some 18 years ago, and when compared by experts, the writing was declared to be the same as recent writing known to have been done by the dead man. So positive was the identification established, that the body was turned over to her and other relatives by the authorities at Sapulpa, and was shipped here to Sprinker Mortuary. Numerous Newton people remember Orie Anderson when he lived here and although it had been years since any of them had seen; several who saw him at the mortuary have declared without hesitancy that they are convinced that the person who has posed as Frances Anderson is none other than Orie. His peculiarly shaped nose in unmistakable, his high cheek bones, high forehead, the effeminate size and shape of his hands, his size,apparent age, his hand-writing, the name he adopted, the calling he was in - every detail is absolutely convincing and positive in the identification.

As Frances Anderson, he was here about six weeks ago and gave an exhibition at one of the local billiard parlors, and his conduct at that time, now that the strange developments have become known, were exactly like that of Orie Anderson. He was nervous, quick, silent, but he still showed his old time skill. He stated that he had been traveling the country giving exhibitions for many years, and no one who saw him disguised as a woman here had the least thought but what he was what he posed to be.

It is a sad, strange case, and while the sympathy of all will go out to those of this family remaining, there is a satisfied joy in the knowledge that the wayward boy has at last been found, even though in death, and those notwithstanding, his doubtful career and estrangement of years, the tenderness and compassion of sisterly and brotherly love was available for the last rites in his behalf which was possible for human hands.



Family links:
Parents:
John D. Anderson (1837 - 1896)
Mary E. Bissel Anderson (1850 - 1891)


Burial:
Greenwood Cemetery
Newton
Harvey County
Kansas, USA

Created by: Barb
Record added: Feb 19, 2008
Find A Grave Memorial# 24752081
 
Last edited:
Frances Anderson (1871 - 1928) billiards champion




Revised 6/2/1012.

Frances Anderson was the first female billiards champion, from the 1890s. At that time there were very few women's touraments. Frances, from Kansas or Indiana, offered $5,000 to any woman who could beat her, and went undefeated for 25 years. She also beat most of the men whom she played against. She was paid well for her appearances, taking on challengers and giving exhibitions, even into the 1920s, and toured North America and Europe.

By the late 1920s she was aging, and her nerves and eyes were letting her down, and was often ill. She wasn't the first professional billiards player to take the suicide route. She chose her end in a hotel room in Sapulapa, Oklahoma in 1928. Only when her body arrived at the mortuary was it discovered that she was male-bodied. A Mrs W.D. May (née Anderson) read the newspaper accounts and travelled to Sapulapa to identify the body, whom she claimed as her missing brother, Orie. She produced an 18-year letter and the writing matched writing by the deceased. The body was released to the Anderson family who took it back to Newton, Kansas for burial.

Read more: http://zagria.blogspot.com/2007/03/is-frances-anderson-real-person.html#ixzz2fORsejIf
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution



Thanks for the link Dorabelle that is an interesting read but that is not at all what I am talking about that person "Frances Anderson" was a cross dresser, has not had sexual reassignment, taking drugs to repress manliness and make boobs etc and tried to live as a women other than dressing however he/she did at that time, what I am willing to bet is that todays modern women who are very confident and comfortable in their respective sports they play (golf,tennis,pool) can defend the honor of womanhood in their chosen sport. Let me know when they have a transgender reassigned individual who is trying to play a major event with all of the XX champions in attendance and you or whoever has action. The player in question must have had the surgery and be taking the drugs whatever to be more woman like to qualify, not be full blown raging testosterone hiding in a dress.

Personally I don't think SVB, Earl, Efren or even Richie Richardson (farther down the list type player) is going to look at crossing over anytime soon, would have to be a pretty strong player for me to think one person is a favorite versus the field. Past the top 100 men many of the women can win some matches for sure. I have seen Jeanette beat some men with a big name who were in the top 100 playing even in regional events, the same for other top women they can and they have beat men in tournament races playing rotation pool specifically 9 ball, plenty of women have prevailed against top men so no man is guaranteed a win against a field and a man who needed to be a women might just be more focused on sexuality than on the match. Enough of the women play at a high level it would take a full blown stone cold champion to be close to being guaranteed a tournament win and even then anything can happen in a race and they have multiple races to win a tourney. I think todays modern female fields have some decent players so Frances whoever would not have had to have won against everyone was such an event held today.

BTW - How did Frances do against the "men champions" of the day did she ever give such a match a shot?

I bet that s/he identified as a woman but this was before surgery or hormone replacement. S/he lived as a woman for decades. The article says s/he did pretty good when playing his own gender.

At what point are you ok with a man playing womans sports? After they have a feeling inside that they want to be a woman or after surgery or drugs?

How do you feel about Fallon Fox being a transgender MMA fighter brutally knocking out women?

No one wants them to stop playing sports or stop being athletes, maybe just play in their gender divisions. What would be the harm in that? Its fair.
 
I recall it happened in amateur pool a few years back. It was either the VNEA or BCA nationals in the Womens Sr division. Yes, she won.
 
I bet that s/he identified as a woman but this was before surgery or hormone replacement. S/he lived as a woman for decades. The article says s/he did pretty good when playing his own gender.

At what point are you ok with a man playing womans sports? After they have a feeling inside that they want to be a woman or after surgery or drugs?

How do you feel about Fallon Fox being a transgender MMA fighter brutally knocking out women?

No one wants them to stop playing sports or stop being athletes, maybe just play in their gender divisions. What would be the harm in that? Its fair.

Dora I did not vote in your thing and really do not have an opinion or care, Personally I do not think men should not beat up on women and also that women should should not beat on men. If a woman wants to fight a man in a ring I would suggest the event is not something I care to be a part of watching or OK'ing. As to competing in sex delineated groups I am prefectly fine saying no man with a Y chromosone should play in a womens tournament what I was just originally pointing out was that in New York they said let the changed person play,

I was just saying if it comes down to it a man now women fights to get to play in a womens event I think the field will prevail and shoot them down. Remember Billy Jean King vs Bobby Riggs I might have the names wrong but it was a tennis match from the past, the lady won, Bobby played as a man not a woman. Also some women have tried to play in the US Open 9 ball which was barring women for some reason, should women be allowed to play in that, I say yes, I know this was more a political thing with pool organizations and not a sexist thing I think the women can play now.

Do I think a young looking 30 year old should be able to crash the junior nationals NO I do not.

Should a man be able to play in a major womens tournament I would say no but if they get to play all I am saying is I would bet on field of women to beat the man playing now as a woman.

In closing I all I am saying is I believe in the Girl Power thing which is what I was trying to say, even if you did not take it as such.
 
Not long ago a friend of mine, who was a pool player, underwent a sex change operation. I visited him/her at the hospital.
Sitting beside his/her bed I asked him/her what the most painful part of the operation was.
He/she responded by saying, "It was when the doctor came into my room with a large syringe, stuck it in my ear, and sucked out half my brains."
He/she still plays a pretty mean game of One Pocket. :smile:
 
Dora I did not vote in your thing and really do not have an opinion or care, Personally I do not think men should not beat up on women and also that women should should not beat on men. If a woman wants to fight a man in a ring I would suggest the event is not something I care to be a part of watching or OK'ing. As to competing in sex delineated groups I am prefectly fine saying no man with a Y chromosone should play in a womens tournament what I was just originally pointing out was that in New York they said let the changed person play,
I was just saying if it comes down to it a man now women fights to get to play in a womens event I think the field will prevail and shoot them down. Remember Billy Jean King vs Bobby Riggs I might have the names wrong but it was a tennis match from the past, the lady won, Bobby played as a man not a woman. Also some women have tried to play in the US Open 9 ball which was barring women for some reason, should women be allowed to play in that, I say yes, I know this was more a political thing with pool organizations and not a sexist thing I think the women can play now.
Do I think a young looking 30 year old should be able to crash the junior nationals NO I do not.
Should a man be able to play in a major womens tournament I would say no but if they get to play all I am saying is I would bet on field of women to beat the man playing now as a woman.
In closing I all I am saying is I believe in the Girl Power thing which is what I was trying to say, even if you did not take it as such.

How about a little nude mud wrestling? Could you go for some of that? :smile:
 
Im going to change my question for you.

Should a person born a man with a penis, testicles, XY chromosomes, grows facial hair, was known as a man for decades, has no ovaries, can not menstruate, does not produce eggs, does not have a vagina, takes drugs (hormones), does not have XX chromosomes, if left alone on an island without ingesting synthetic hormones will look like a man, be allowed to play womans sports (pool)?

Or another question, should a game/sport like pool for which physical size and strength is of no discernible consequence to the outcome have women's division?

Should women EVER be allowed to play in men's events?

If a man identifies as a woman and goes through all the crap to transform himself into a woman and she is legally defined as a woman then she should be allowed to participate in all things women participate in.

Conversely the same applies to women who convert themselves to men.

Maybe there should be a third option like the indians had with their two-spirit genders. An indian man who dressed and acted like a woman was actually respected and revered and thought to have two spirits inside them. So maybe there should be divisions in sports for transgender people to compete with each other.
 
I have no moral problem with anyone who lives their life anyway they want to without hurting anyone else be it recreational, sexual, spiritual etc etc. I dont think any less or more of them. I have close gay friends.

I also think women and men are different.
Here is an interesting story of a transsexual MMA fighter Fallon Fox. He beats women in fights by brutal knock out. This is insane to me. Why even have any division between female and male athletes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6_7BOGUXHM

Heres the story of Francis Anderson. A he who won all the ladies tournys. You woulda lost your 10k back then. The sad thing is is that no one knows who the real woman's champ was back then.
http://zagria.blogspot.ca/2007/03/is-frances-anderson-real-person.html#.UjueMvvD98Q

It can only benefit a man to do this. Of course those women have no chance against the guy claiming to be a women in a fight and he might end up really hurting some. Of course women have been able to play in many men's sports like pool and golf, where the men are not allowed to play in any women's sports. A little double standard? Even with that said, it's not fair for someone who was born a man to play in any women's sports as he/she has a big advantage.
 
I have no issue with anyone redefining their identity,
whether they undergo physical changes or not.

I don't like the idea of an uneven playing field where a male can dominate the women's
division of any particular sport. Even if the male takes estrogen and has seemingly
has feminine features and muscle tone.

On the other hand, it's kind of a mystery why males should dominate a game like pool
where physical size and strength isn't that crucial. So maybe in a non-physical contest,
transgender competitors should be allowed to play anyway.

Pool is somewhere in between blatantly physical (football) and blatantly nonphysical (chess).
Closer to nonphysical. I'm inclined to say "let's try it" and see what happens.
If two transgender men enter the WPBA and within a year, they are #1 and #2,
then I guess you have to ban them and make a restriction.

Probably easier (in many people's minds) to just ban them ahead of time
and avoid the whole uncomfortable issue of having to kick them out for playing too well.
 
I recall it happened in amateur pool a few years back. It was either the VNEA or BCA nationals in the Womens Sr division. Yes, she won.

Yeah. It was the BCA. I think it was around 2005. She/He/It won the women's singles.

I believe it was the same transtesticle that played in the APA back in the late '80's in a tournament in Moline,IL.

She/he/it was a 7 then.
 
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