should pro tournaments ban the jump cue?

jersey jer said:
learn how to jump with a full cue. The inclusion of the jump cue in pool, to me, has been like adding a 3ft dia. ball to bowling and calling it the 7-10 split ball.
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Hilarious but look at golf. They got every kind of driver, irons scaled to how much sex they're getting, a little iron for not driving, hire guys to schlepp and drive for them... I can see players using several cues just for the properties of different tips and balances/weight/mojo...

Will a 3' ball fit through the thing at the far end?
 
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Cameron Smith said:
I don't know if this topic has come up before, but I will put it out there anyways. So what do you all think?

I played with a jump cue for the first time about a month ago. I had never use one before and never bothered to learn to jump. I had an idea of what to do from reading this forum (thanks guys!), but I had never tried it before. Within a couple of shots I was able to jump balls quite easily. Of course I messed up from time to time, but I wasn't having much trouble. I also pocketed a fair amount of balls this way as well.

My conclusion from this experiance is that the jump cue makes that shot too easy. In the world of golf there has always been a discussion about when the technology makes the game too easy. I think this is relevant with the jump cue in pool.
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As a viewpoint from a Poolroom owner/manager, the main problem with jump shots is that your recreational players have no clue how to correctly shoot a jumpshot. Their attempts to mimic good players and attempt jump shots is to dig the cue tip under the cue ball, miscuing and potentially damaging the cloth.

Yes, even if this discussion relates to tournament play involving better players in which a correctly performed jumpshot does not damage the cloth,, they all still have to learn how to hit these jump shots at the expense of the pool room’s table cloth, and recreational players still observe these players play and copy their jump shots, even though they have no clue how to shoot one.
 
ChrisinNC said:
As a viewpoint from a Poolroom owner/manager, the main problem with jump shots is that your recreational players have no clue how to correctly shoot a jumpshot. Their attempts to mimic good players and attempt jump shots is to dig the cue tip under the cue ball, miscuing and potentially damaging the cloth.

Yes, even if this discussion relates to tournament play involving better players in which a correctly performed jumpshot does not damage the cloth,, they all still have to learn how to hit these jump shots at the expense of the pool room’s table cloth, and recreational players still observe these players play and copy their jump shots, even though they have no clue how to shoot one.
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Yeah, there is a learning curve that is irritating to everyone in the room. Both some breaks and jumping. I was playing someone years ago who couldn't keep the cue ball on the table. He must have chased the cue ball around the pool room forty-two times. I was getting the stink eye just being on the same table. He was much younger and some might have thought I sired him. Awkward for me since I didn't feel it was my place to tell him but I wanted to point out this wasn't golf or even putt-putt, if you can't keep the balls on the table quit using those shots!

Another thing, if you need one for the break or other shots, use a break cloth. I didn't have any pool table cloth so whacked a chunk of old blue jean denim out. Works just fine. A surprise, I am breaking harder and better with the break cloth, no worries about damaging the cloth.

Since this is rapidly turning into a rant I might as well add, many jump shots are illegal! Not possible to make those very close jump shots without the cue ball running up the stick and being pushed forward. This can cause arguments and is a major strike against jump cues.

Old grump or not, when push comes to shove I don't like the jump cue or more accurately I don't like some shots attempted with them! A cue ball can't jump straight up then forward momentum comes from nowhere and the cue ball lands a foot or two away from the cue ball strike.

Jump cues have made me quite a bit of money and I have never owned or used one. I guess I still don't like them because of all of the real or possible issues.

One of the things I like about snooker is that sometimes someone is forced to try the same shot over and over. No jumping and they are losing points every attempt. It would seem time to smack the object ball as centered as possible but the player keeps attempting a razor thin cut on the object ball. When he gets it then it is his opponent's turn to sweat. I like cue sports to be in two dimensions,

Hu
 
hang-the-9 said:
There is a different discussion of just jumping and jumping using a short jump cue.
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Fair enough... ...and that's the reason I use a jump/break. I can jump with it nearly as easily full length as I can short. I should add that I do not use the "spear" technique at all, and will opt to kick if a jump shot gets to where a "spear" would be necessary. I see a jump cue no differently then the use of a breaker. If a breaker were only about saving the tip of the playing cue, (like anyone hits the break that hard anymore), then force those who choose to use them, to utilize the same specs as the playing cue.

The reality is, the breaker, just like the jumper, is a specialize cue for a specific purpose. Why is one allowed and the other frowned upon...?

Vast majority of pros use extensions on their cues now. Everyone seems fine with that. Why...? How is using a short cue for jumping any worse than extending your player to reach shots you normally wouldn't be able to..? The comparison between jumpers and extension couldn't be more apples to apples. In both cases there is a skill set that negates the need for the new piece of equipment. I guess your acceptance boils down to what size equipment you first learnt billiards on.

hang-the-9 said:
Most real pool fans don't like jump cues, most pros don't like jump cues
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That's cute... I doubt you can speak for the masses. However your thoughts are probably a good example as to why the game isn't more popular. Pool "purists" dislike jump cues. Players (amateur and pro) who see their weak safeties foiled easily dislike jump cues. People who we want to be new fans want to be entertained. Kicks are boring to the uninitiated. Jumps have a wow factor.
hang-the-9 said:
Just shows that the game is not controlled by the players at all and they flock to whatever place will hand them some money for playing.
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Well of course... The money is so small in pool, the players snap up whatever they can. I don't blame them. If I was to hazard a guess. I'd say that the allowance of jump cues is pretty far down the list of things that would prevent a pro from entering an event.
 
The_JV said:
Speaking for myself... I have in the past and will continue to do so, have played shape for a jump shot. Doesn't come up often but when you're a proficient jumper it's a viable option when considering patterns.

As far as what is exciting or not... I rather see a pro jump with action to pot a ball and play shape, then see them taking a best guess at a few rails. As with any shot choice. Some jumps are easy, some are not. I can tell you that based on my exposure to pool room crowds. Most will stop to watch a jump shot being attempted. Kicks hardly raise an eyebrow.
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No problem with that. To each his own.
 
straightline said:
Hilarious but look at golf. They got every kind of driver, irons scaled to how much sex they're getting, a little iron for not driving, hire guys to schlepp and drive for them... I can see players using several cues just for the properties of different tips and balances/weight/mojo...

Will a 3' ball fit through the thing at the far end?
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Golf clubs have to be different for the simple physical distance and angles different shots need to be shot at. You can't expect a club designed for 30 foot shots to be used for 200 or 300 foot shots. If you are in grass or on a hill in sand you need a different shape/size head, it's played on a variable surface. In pool none of that is really needed and the game rules and playing surface has been tweaked over many years for the equipment used. The cloth, rails and balls are all the same through the whole game of pool and the distances are so short that the need to swap equipment is not there.
 
No way to compare golf clubs and a cue. Ridiculous.
straightline said:
Hilarious but look at golf. They got every kind of driver, irons scaled to how much sex they're getting, a little iron for not driving, hire guys to schlepp and drive for them... I can see players using several cues just for the properties of different tips and balances/weight/mojo...

Will a 3' ball fit through the thing at the far
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hang-the-9 said:
Golf clubs have to be different for the simple physical distance and angles different shots need to be shot at. You can't expect a club designed for 30 foot shots to be used for 200 or 300 foot shots. If you are in grass or on a hill in sand you need a different shape/size head, it's played on a variable surface. In pool none of that is really needed and the game rules and playing surface has been tweaked over many years for the equipment used. The cloth, rails and balls are all the same through the whole game of pool and the distances are so short that the need to swap equipment is not there.
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If this were completely true, pro pool would be error free. They'd certainly shoot at more stuff.

garczar said:
No way to compare golf clubs and a cue. Ridiculous.
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They already use three. You could add cues for every kind of ball action. It's about choices.
 
I'd love to see a 'Wallybushka' tournament: everyone has to use a house cue. Get new Dufferin HiRuns and every shot has to be played with that cue. Guess what?? It wouldn't be any different outcome, best player wins regardless of what they use.
 
I have a few jump cues- never practiced much at all with them and can't really use them in most situations with any success- why? - I am from a different era - cue ball control, position play, knowing how the balls react off the rails. So for me, I really do understand how some here say the game has changed- just like baseball- no more small ball -almost every sport now is more about power and scoring - home runs, GIANT basketball players, power tennis rackets, power golf equipment.

I, too, long for the good old days where developing all the finer skills of a sport was the REAL challenge. Has technology gone too far in sports- depends who you ask, no true right or wrong answer. Let me ask you this: how many players who can make three jump cue shots in a row can also run a full rack of 15 balls without touching a rail? Not many I bet. I can!
 
Like others, I'm not going to read all 90 posts in a thread that started 14 years ago.

Some tournaments already ban jump cues. That's up to the tournament organizer (or room).

I would like to see enforcement of the existing rule against phenolic tips, whether on break or jump cues. Phenolic tips damage the cue ball.
 
It's funny to see this old post pop back up. I had forgotten all about it. My current views are similar but I have softened somewhat. It still frustrates me to some extent to see someone just hop over a snooker. But on the other hand, the skill level of touring pros with the jump shot has increased quite a bit in the last 14 years. Back then, I didn't see nearly as many balls potted on the jump shot as I do now. So it's become more of an offensive shot than a "get out of jail free card" shot. So although it may be easy to hop over balls, pros have taken it several steps further.

That said, I do like the kicking game and would happy to see some limitations of the jump shot (which I know there already are in some cases).
 
Yes, 100% ban jump cues, they make the game too easy to get out of trouble, then luck-hook your opponent, then proceed to win the game by sheer-luck getting out of a hook even though the hook afterwards was just pure-luck, because jumping and hitting the ball is easy.

Grandy Mathews (RIP) once said and I completely agree with him that, he could teach an amateur player to jump a ball within an hour but it takes years and yeaaaars to teach a guy to kick properly.

and he emphasized the 'year' as I wrote it, trust me, Grady knows pool in-and-out, jump cues should be banned, forever.
 
I don't have a jump cue. I am not a fan of jumping in pool mainly because of the likely chance of the cloth being dinged or the ball ending up on the floor. With that said I think the kicking game is interesting and watching the pros play without jump cues is more exciting.
 
ShootingArts said:
One of the things I like about snooker is that sometimes someone is forced to try the same shot over and over. No jumping and they are losing points every attempt. It would seem time to smack the object ball as centered as possible but the player keeps attempting a razor thin cut on the object ball. When he gets it then it is his opponent's turn to sweat. I like cue sports to be in two dimensions,

Hu
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Same, I understand jumping takes skill but it also eliminates some of the fun of safety play. I also understand that it results in sales for cue makers so it's probably good for business, but I still don't like them.
 
garczar said:
No way to compare golf clubs and a cue. Ridiculous.
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And I may have already pointed it out in this thread, but golf is so hide-bound that you can't even putt between your legs. Nor can you use a ball outside a narrow range of parameters. And I think that's good.
 
pt109 said:
I agree with you on a full set of clubs....but maybe the variety of putters is comparable.
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You can effectively play pool with one cue. You can't play golf with one club. I've played really good golf with 7 clubs before and that's about the minimum. Love to see tour pros play with a putter and 4-5 clubs.
 
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