Should pros be allowed to rob amateur events?

[couldnthinkof01]

Handicap events have their place. Tough to; play, practice, play, etc. And never win. Ego and confidence have their needs too.
But when I play open events I wish every sign up sheet read like the us open!

 

[BmoreMoney]

For years the hole in the wall redneck bar I hung in had at least a Fri night $10 tourney. Always drew 30, 40, 50 people usually apa folks. Admittedly , I won or cashed most of the time. As players , most knew " someone " and as the word got out quickly the pros and short stops came around to steal the momey. This great tourney was competely busted out within 6 months if not less.

There are " some "people that don't mind donating if they get to play a pro, but most of these tourney are supported by league players who have no idea who the hell they are and just quit playing .

Worth noting : " MOST " OF these "pro " players are starving and they ALL look to pick up local $80 dollar scores to get by. Right or wrong can't say, but as a pool player it dog eat dog world. Just how it is, sorry.

 

[medallio]

It’s sad that one of my goals is to be so good I’m banned. A little sarcastic but a little truthful as we know that’s what happens

 

[jimmyco]

If the rules allow it, how is it "robbing"?

Curious, what does the average pro earn, after travel, lodging and dining expenses?

 

[Kim Bye]

If you support yourself by playing as much pool as other people do working, of course you should not be allowed in a amateur tournament, unless the handicap is such that it neutralizes the difference.
I don`t have the time to play much now, but when I do play, I sometimes meet people who live their lives at the pool hall. And the question: "do you wanna play for something" comes up.
Yeah sure, I`ll play for a beer, a pop or whatever, but make the odds even. Spot me 1 up to the 7 ball in 10 ball and we will be even. Then their not interested anymore, because it`s "unfair"
But asking a guy who plays less pool per month than they do in a day, and expecting me to pick up your beer tab, that`s somehow fair?
This IS why pool has a bad reputation.
I`m totally fine with people who want to perform under preassure, but they can do so on their own choosing. To think that every pool players is highly competetive and it's only a match when money is on the line, is to miss the point of the sport.
I have always played pool to relax and get away from the everyday stress.

 

[Straightpool_99]

For years the hole in the wall redneck bar I hung in had at least a Fri night $10 tourney. Always drew 30, 40, 50 people usually apa folks. Admittedly , I won or cashed most of the time. As players , most knew " someone " and as the word got out quickly the pros and short stops came around to steal the momey. This great tourney was competely busted out within 6 months if not less.

There are " some "people that don't mind donating if they get to play a pro, but most of these tourney are supported by league players who have no idea who the hell they are and just quit playing .

Worth noting : " MOST " OF these "pro " players are starving and they ALL look to pick up local $80 dollar scores to get by. Right or wrong can't say, but as a pool player it dog eat dog world. Just how it is, sorry.

THIS story is why you don't let pros play in small local tournaments. They destroyed the pool scene in this place, and for what? Chump change!

What do you expect is going to happen when "9 to 5 Bill" who maybe gets to play 2 hours of pool a week, if he's lucky, has to play a pro every time he's out playing? Is he magically going to get to pro standard? Is he going to quit his job and let his kids fend for themselves? All that stuff about "getting inspired" is just bull. A pro should consider it beneath them to try and rob people who can't hit the end rail! Personally I'd love to play pros (though the result would be much the same as with 9 to 5 Bill) but I and most people on this board are not typical of the pool world as a whole.

What may inspire "9-5 Bill" is to maybe beat that guy in the rival company, or be the best player in his office or whatever. What is getting blanked by Mika Immonen or Shane Van Boening every week going to do for his motivation? He has no chance to get to that level no matter what he does. Not everyone has ambitions of becoming the greatest player they can be. Some just want to have a little rivalry with their friends and blow off some steam.

Where I live pool is organized as a sport with skill level divisions. Since you Americans refuse to do things that way, your only option is to protect those small tournaments fiercely. If the local pros are hard up for cash, you can maybe organize a small "challenge the pro" tournament where they take on all comers in a race to 3 or something. Have some t-shirts for prices with "I beat (name of pro)" on them. Or refer people to the pros for lessons.

 

[BmoreMoney]

THIS story is why you don't let pros play in small local tournaments. They destroyed the pool scene in this place, and for what? Chump change!

What do you expect is going to happen when "9 to 5 Bill" who maybe gets to play 2 hours of pool a week, if he's lucky, has to play a pro every time he's out playing? Is he magically going to get to pro standard? Is he going to quit his job and let his kids fend for themselves? All that stuff about "getting inspired" is just bull. A pro should consider it beneath them to try and rob people who can't hit the end rail! Personally I'd love to play pros (though the result would be much the same as with 9 to 5 Bill) but I and most people on this board are not typical of the pool world as a whole.

What may inspire "9-5 Bill" is to maybe beat that guy in the rival company, or be the best player in his office or whatever. What is getting blanked by Mika Immonen or Shane Van Boening every week going to do for his motivation? He has no chance to get to that level no matter what he does. Not everyone has ambitions of becoming the greatest player they can be. Some just want to have a little rivalry with their friends and blow off some steam.

Where I live pool is organized as a sport with skill level divisions. Since you Americans refuse to do things that way, your only option is to protect those small tournaments fiercely. If the local pros are hard up for cash, you can maybe organize a small "challenge the pro" tournament where they take on all comers in a race to 3 or something. Have some t-shirts for prices with "I beat (name of pro)" on them. Or refer people to the pros for lessons.

I agree 100%. The reason that this was allowed to happen was a couple of reasons. First : the owner ( who I was and am still friends with was apparently enamored with the " pros ". Also he was involved with sponsoring one of the " pros ". Occasionally Tom Rossman or Black Widow would stop by and put on a show for a bit. This was also a heavy action bar - more so league if that makes sense. Leagues 7 nights a week with multiple teams going to Vegas every time . Walls covered with trophies . You get the idea. Anyway, not that I was a pro by any means
, but I was allowed to always play because I was in there most nights and most nights my tab was a couple hundred or more. ( I bought a lot of drinks lol ). But then the soda drinkin, water drinkin, not there for the fun folks started coming in and killed it for everyone . It was always stiff competition between us locals mixed in with the 3, 4, 5, 6 etc league players but we were all friends. When the " pros " started stopping by for an easy payday, the " starstruck mentality " wore off REAL FAST and then puff - nothing.

 

[decent dennis]

What really sucks is when they are allowed to play, win the hotseat and traveling partner wins the losers side, and then decide to chop it because they don't want to play each other.

I myself didn't mind them playing, but at least play the final, and I'm talking about former Mosconi teammates.

 

[kor b]

Let them play, but i should be able to get my entry money back if Shane signs up at the last minute. This is the only way the free market could work.

 

[Dave714]

Pro pool players are some of the brokest people on the planet. At least the amateur players have a paying job.

 

[pwd72s]

Is this good for the sport?

Here in the Northwest we have the nicest pro you would ever want to meet. He takes home a lot of the cheese from day job player events.

Is this right? If not where do you draw the line?

JC

Grumbling about Stan's action are you?

 

[justinb386]

Countless times on here I have read comments regarding league players like
...

Quit leagues ....play tournaments

Stop hiding behind handicaps and get in the grease


Play tournaments

To be a better player you gotta play better players

Play for money


The consensus seems to be you expect a lowly league player to get out of his element and play in situations where he does not have a chance of cashing in

Pay your dues and improve to where you can be competitive with us more serious players.

Here we.have a thread started debating whether a high level player should be allowed to play in a tournament that others " day job fellas " dont have a chance of cashing in.

What happened to stepping up ?

What happened to get in the grease?

What happened to pay your dues and improve in order to be competitive ?

Kind of ironic that you have a thread on the main page more or less stating that league players complain about having no chance in a tournament with "just " players and now you have a thread about " day job " players....love that terminology lol.....complaining about having no chance in a tournament with a pro.

That is why a lot of tournaments are handicapped. If there is no handicap system, and it is an open tournament, then yeah, anyone is allowed to play in it. If it is a handicapped tournament, then give the pro a handicap that you think is fair (if you are the TD), like a 13 or whatever the highest rating is. And if it is a very short race tournament (like a race to 5 9 ball, for example), then it will not matter if a pro is playing, a lower skill level player does have a chance against any pro in a short race tournament (if they play good). I would love to have a chance to get to play a known pro in a small $10 or $20 weekly tournament. I think players should be honored that a pro would spend his night at a small weekly tournament (where the winner might only win a few hundred dollars).

 

[justinb386]

When Shane was living in Fort Collins and playing-winning a lot of tournaments around here, it seemed like it was good for pool.
But that was Shane who is very likable, a good ambassador for the game.

Danny Medina played in many local tournaments here in Denver, and I think guys enjoyed being able to say... "I played Danny Medina last night"

Yeah, I think it is good for the game, that pros play in smaller weekly tournaments. I think it is really cool.

 

[BmoreMoney]

Yeah, I think it is good for the game, that pros play in smaller weekly tournaments. I think it is really cool.

Yes it kinda da is, but for most regular folks that wears off after the first 3 or 4 or 12 weeks in a row where same people take turns suckling the money out of it. As I said, I never really minded but most of the folks play in were apa players so they do start to mind .

 

[Ched]

Pro pool players are some of the brokest people on the planet. At least the amateur players have a paying job.

That's their own choice. They know what various things pay. They can always pick up a part time job to cover a few bills. Just sayin.

 

[maha]

the players need to tell the director they wont play if they dont have a chance. if enough say that then things change.

if its legal for him to play i cant fault him for getting in. but who would want to play all night in a tournament that you dont have a chance in and the same three players take all the money out every week.

 

[mvp]

the players need to tell the director they wont play if they dont have a chance. if enough say that then things change.

if its legal for him to play i cant fault him for getting in. but who would want to play all night in a tournament that you dont have a chance in and the same three players take all the money out every week.

Short enough of a race and anyone can win!

 

[couldnthinkof01]

I've always wondered why people will play league. Pay $15 for just one match, of which only half goes into a prize fund, plus seasonal or annual dues, will do this all day everyday. They will never make any profit. But when asked to play in a tournament for $15 where you play at least 2 matches they look at you like your nutz. " im not doing that, same 3 guys win all the money!"

 

[MJB]

where is the line drawn?

I scanned through this thread. A lot of good opinions. Here are a couple of considerations:

-Do any pro-level players really show up to "weekly" events? I'd think this would be beneath a pro-level player, unless they are REALLY hard up for money, or if a weekly tourney somewhere is just that hot.

-Let's say you're hosting a monthly or special event that you don't want to see a pro robbing, so you advertise "no pros allowed" (I've seen this approach). So now comes the question...what constitutes a pro player? I'm curious about opinions on this one. I mean, it's not like golf where you have a tour card. Sure you have the top pros and mid-pros that everyone can name in a lineup, but what about the guys who hold their own in pro events but maybe have never won? Where do you draw the line in that case?

 

[poolscholar]

In the last 5 years I have all but quit playing locally due to the lack of open events. The local handicap tournaments have gotten to where the top players no longer have an edge. I have given up 3 games to 8 against players that can run multiple racks from the break. I lost, lost, and lost. It got to the point that it affected my confidence, I no longer felt like I was a good player that was going to come with the shot for the win, I just felt like I was a big guy with my hands tied together being picked on by people weaker than me. I forgot how to expect good things to happen. I finally decided not to play them anymore. Now I play only 1-2 tournaments that are open with no handicaps per year. Otherwise I practice in my basement.

Except the top local players still often win the mpa handicap tournaments. Lee, Jr and Jesse all on taking tons of money over the years (and well as you winning yourself)