Should this be a foul ?

Player A is shooting a drawshot and after striking the cueball player A proceeds to wipe the cloth on the exact path that the cueball is traveling back on to slow the ball down from a possible scratch?

go to poll !!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=245095

I would like to see a rules interpretation on this as well. If it isn't a foul it most definitely seems like it should be. I'd be a more than a bit pissed if it happened to me.
 
Player A is shooting a drawshot and after striking the cueball player A proceeds to wipe the cloth on the exact path that the cueball is traveling back on to slow the ball down from a possible scratch?

go to poll !!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=245095

Let me guess Steve, you were watching the JA /CW match tonight, right? I thought the same thing. And BTW, it should be a foul regardless of intent. While I think it's OK to remove say a piece of chalk that you may have bumped onto the table during a stroke, changing the conditions of the equipment while the balls are moving should be a foul.
 
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I am not familiar with rules on this but it is like when someone bumps the table. Unsportsmanship at best and it is a gray area as far as I know.
 
Official BCAPL response

Foul in BCAPL play. Violation of BCAPL Rule 1.2.2, Acceptance of Provided Equipment:

"During a match, it is a foul if you attempt to modify provided equipment without the permission of a referee or event official. The foul occurs immediately upon the attempt, regardless of whether a stroke or shot is attempted."

The similar rule that used to be in WSR prior to 2008, (and which BCAPL 1.2 was modeled on), did not survive the 2008 WSR rewrite. The closest thing remaining in WSR is under WSR 6.16, UC, which includes item (h): "using equipment inappropriately." As a referee under WSR, I would, at a minimum, issue a warning on the first offense. This ain't curling, folks, and the rubbing of the cloth is a clear attempt to change the existing nature of the cloth itself.

On a side note, in BCAPL play, removing chalk dust or lint or other foreign objects from the cloth in advance of a shot does not fall under the same category, since they are neither part of the cloth nor provided equipment.
:smile:

Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
 
Foul

Player A is shooting a drawshot and after striking the cueball player A proceeds to wipe the cloth on the exact path that the cueball is traveling back on to slow the ball down from a possible scratch?

go to poll !!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=245095

I would think so. Much like blowing from your mouth to speed up a ball or bumping the table. Certainly bad sportsmanship. May fall into the common sense category. Probably covered in the rules, if not, it's still wrong. If you did this before the shot, that's different, much like JA picking lint from the table. Personally I just yell at the balls and wave my hands to speed up or slow down the stupid balls. And of course the most secret of all the secrets of great pool. BODY ENGLISH!
 
Player A is shooting a drawshot and after striking the cueball player A proceeds to wipe the cloth on the exact path that the cueball is traveling back on to slow the ball down from a possible scratch?

go to poll !!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=245095

Damn skippy it's a foul! That's modifying the path of a moving ball (via modifying the equipment that the ball is traveling on), and is found in the WPA rules. A couple posters have already excerpted the appropriate snippets above -- thanks to those folks.

Good question and poll, Steve!
-Sean
 
It's really no different than bumping the table if a ball hangs in the pocket to try and get it to fall. Its definitely unsportsman like.
 
Thanks Buddy

Foul in BCAPL play. Violation of BCAPL Rule 1.2.2, Acceptance of Provided Equipment:

"During a match, it is a foul if you attempt to modify provided equipment without the permission of a referee or event official. The foul occurs immediately upon the attempt, regardless of whether a stroke or shot is attempted."

The similar rule that used to be in WSR prior to 2008, (and which BCAPL 1.2 was modeled on), did not survive the 2008 WSR rewrite. The closest thing remaining in WSR is under WSR 6.16, UC, which includes item (h): "using equipment inappropriately." As a referee under WSR, I would, at a minimum, issue a warning on the first offense. This ain't curling, folks, and the rubbing of the cloth is a clear attempt to change the existing nature of the cloth itself.

On a side note, in BCAPL play, removing chalk dust or lint or other foreign objects from the cloth in advance of a shot does not fall under the same category, since they are neither part of the cloth nor provided equipment.
:smile:

Buddy Eick
BCAPL National Head Referee
BCAPL Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, BCAPL Rule Book
bcapl_referee@cox.net

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* The contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Neither I nor any BCAPL referee make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* No reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post unless specifically stated.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.

I knew I was right, I'm right a lot if my wife is not nearby. Mr. Wiggles by the way is Kris H. I spoke with Mr. Hixon last night and the whole AAA controversy has been cleared up. He said he would play his team at AAA. We have been good friends forever and I was relieved that he came around. The whole AAA matter was because of my health issue, which is all good at this point, I just can't be around smoke. We ran this whole thing up Davids flagpole months ago, and he saw no issues. Oh well it's all good now. See you around.
 
Yes this was during the JA/CW match last night. but i wrote it the way i did, because i wanted honest answers and not swayed ones because who the people were !!!

thanks everyone, and dont forget to vote in the poll thread !!

-Steve
 
Yes this was during the JA/CW match last night. but i wrote it the way i did, because i wanted honest answers and not swayed ones because who the people were !!!

thanks everyone, and dont forget to vote in the poll thread !!

-Steve

Which of the players comitted the offense? I know who I would think did it but I didn't see the match.
 
I don't think it would have much effect on the shot....anyone knows that tapping on the rail three times with the chalk is the only real way to slow down the cueball.:rolleyes:
 
Lets take this one step further, after player A shoots the shot and the cueball is drawing and still moving, player B jumps up and rubs the cloth in the cueball path. Now what happens? (besides "I knock him out" lol)
 
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