Sidebetting Gratuities

Opie

Opie

Stronger than shortstop?
Silver Member
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine got into some action with a guy and one thing led to another and I ended up sidebetting on my friend. Another guy I know was sidebetting along with me. Anyways, to make a VERY LONG session short, I ended up making a few bills and the other guy sidebetting made a few bills as well. However, neither of us knew the "appropriate" amount we should give my friend for winning for us. So we went up and asked him how much he wanted. He said that if we just paid the table time that it would be cool. So me and the other guy paid the table time that was $70.50. My question is basically what percentage of your winnings off sidebets should you throw to the guy who won it for you?

Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
 
Opie said:
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine got into some action with a guy and one thing led to another and I ended up sidebetting on my friend. Another guy I know was sidebetting along with me. Anyways, to make a VERY LONG session short, I ended up making a few bills and the other guy sidebetting made a few bills as well. However, neither of us knew the "appropriate" amount we should give my friend for winning for us. So we went up and asked him how much he wanted. He said that if we just paid the table time that it would be cool. So me and the other guy paid the table time that was $70.50. My question is basically what percentage of your winnings off sidebets should you throw to the guy who won it for you?

Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

20-30 bucks per 100 would be generous I would say...totally left up to you though. You were gambling on your money, not his, so if you give him anything you are being generous. He should not expect anything, but if you toss him a few bills, he would appreciate it I am sure.

JMO,
Shorty
 
Opie said:
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine got into some action with a guy and one thing led to another and I ended up sidebetting on my friend. Another guy I know was sidebetting along with me. Anyways, to make a VERY LONG session short, I ended up making a few bills and the other guy sidebetting made a few bills as well. However, neither of us knew the "appropriate" amount we should give my friend for winning for us. So we went up and asked him how much he wanted. He said that if we just paid the table time that it would be cool. So me and the other guy paid the table time that was $70.50. My question is basically what percentage of your winnings off sidebets should you throw to the guy who won it for you?

Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
Click to expand...


Of course that depends on a lot of factors, but as a rule of thumb probably 10% would be a fair gratuity.

I know a lot of people feel you don't owe them anything.... There's a case to be made for this argument as well, but I usually feel better when I reward those who make me money! Maybe it's then Ying, Yang thing, but it works for me.

I've seen more than one match that was engineered to take down the "railbirds" for just this reason. I've also seen times when both players ended up losers and only the railbirds ended up winning. This is why the pool players get upset with the railbirds.

just more hot air!!

Sherm
 
Shorty said:
20-30 bucks per 100 would be generous I would say...totally left up to you though. You were gambling on your money, not his, so if you give him anything you are being generous. He should not expect anything, but if you toss him a few bills, he would appreciate it I am sure.

JMO,
Shorty
Click to expand...

That's kinda what I was thinking. About 20 bucks per 100. I know a person doesn't HAVE to give anything. But my personal opinion is that it is the "right" thing to do.
 
Normally ...

You would be referring to a 'jelly'. Jellies normally
range from 10% to 30%, and a real generous jelly
would be 50%.

Depends on how much he wins for you. If someone
wins $500 for you, would you have a problem jellying
him a $100, which is 20%.

On the other hand, if he won a $100 for you, 20 or 30
would be okay.

I have had guys win $500 or $600 on me, and came up
on their own, and give me a $300 jelly and state that
was the most fun they had had for a long time. Others
who made money off you, and didn't jelly you at all.

This brings up a recent situation with a friend of mine.
He and another guy put a player into a pretty good
tournament. My friend also bought the player in the
calcutta, and the player did not want half of himself.
Well, the player won the tournament, and should have
split the 1st place money with the 2 that put him into
the tournament, but all he did was give the other guy
$10, and my friend nothing, and took off. Now, it is
pretty much a rule that if someone puts you in a tournament,
you are to split any winnings with them. The player won
about $480 total, and he took off before my friend could
talk to him about it. I have yet to see if there is a follow-up
to this situation. Plus, my friend and the other guy were
going to jelly the player out of their portion of the winnings.
Kind of takes on the 'Take the money and run' attitude, doesn't
it?
 
Scott, I've never heard it referred to as a "jelly".

Down here, we "tip" 10-20% depending on the amount won and how good a friend it is.
 
Opie said:
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine got into some action with a guy and one thing led to another and I ended up sidebetting on my friend. Another guy I know was sidebetting along with me. Anyways, to make a VERY LONG session short, I ended up making a few bills and the other guy sidebetting made a few bills as well. However, neither of us knew the "appropriate" amount we should give my friend for winning for us. So we went up and asked him how much he wanted. He said that if we just paid the table time that it would be cool. So me and the other guy paid the table time that was $70.50. My question is basically what percentage of your winnings off sidebets should you throw to the guy who won it for you?

Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
Click to expand...


I always give at least 10%, and sometimes 50%. The last one was in a womens "local" tourneyment.

This gal, had no clue I was betting on her, and after she won I handed her the money. She was so confused, it took more time to explain why I had just handed her $50 then it took for her to win it.

ugh women.

LOL

Ken
 
cuesmith said:
Of course that depends on a lot of factors, but as a rule of thumb probably 10% would be a fair gratuity.

I know a lot of people feel you don't owe them anything.... There's a case to be made for this argument as well, but I usually feel better when I reward those who make me money! Maybe it's then Ying, Yang thing, but it works for me.

I've seen more than one match that was engineered to take down the "railbirds" for just this reason. I've also seen times when both players ended up losers and only the railbirds ended up winning. This is why the pool players get upset with the railbirds.

just more hot air!!

Sherm
Click to expand...
I agree with Sherm on both counts. The 10% and the "reap what you sew" thing as well. If I don't tip when I feel like I should, I end up not making a quarter for a month. That's not the only reason that I throw a little jelly to the player (I do feel that they deserve it), but a not so clear conscience is my worst enemy.

Mike
 
Sweet Marissa said:
Scott, I've never heard it referred to as a "jelly".

Down here, we "tip" 10-20% depending on the amount won and how good a friend it is.
Click to expand...

Actually the term "Jelly" is short for "Jelly Roll". A little treat for doing well.

just more hot air!

Sherm
 
Jelly

Jelly or Jelly Roll is an amount of money that you give to someone who sets you up in a money game in which you have the nuts.

Sidebetting from the rail with your own money, doesn't require "tipping" the horse that you bet on at all.

Like others have already said on here, giving up a little might be good for your Karma.

Karate-
 
Nothing of course. But since pool players will dump and do business, you probably have to do it out of self defense. So the answer is to give as little as possible to prevent somebody dumping you. If you don't think that will work give nothing, but then you shouldn't bet anyway. If the player wants more action, it makes sense to let him buy some of yours on the rail. Broke pool players aren't the best investment overall. But I guess if you like the action it is OK. Just expect to lose long term. You can't give up a 20% vig betting on anything and come out ahead long term unless the matches are total locks.
 
cuesmith said:
Actually the term "Jelly" is short for "Jelly Roll". A little treat for doing well.

just more hot air!

Sherm
Click to expand...


Cuesmith is right. The original term was jellyroll and the standard was the same as a tip in a restaurant, 15%. Any more is surely appreciated though. It also gives you the opertunity to talk to your horse about any spots you may know of that he and you might make more $$$. Jellyrolls are a good idea for many reasons.
 
Opie said:
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine ...
Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
I notice the word "friend", used a lot in this thread. What if niether player knows either of the railbirds? I think each instance must assessed on an individual basis. What if the players do not even know of the wager. I have never contemplated this before and am just thinking out loud. :) If the match is the finals of a major event, is it ethical to give the guy a jelly roll? Could it be that the player may be offended by the offer? I mean if someone and myself have a $10 bet, should the winner, chase down the champion to give him $2?

Tracy
 
Once Upon A Time..............

I was playing (hustling) bar pool in an Indiana small town, USA. I was only playing $10 9-Ball with a local. In other words - I had the Nuts.
I noticed a couple of farmers in coveralls sitting at a near by table and after each game they were paying each other with large stacks of C-Notes. As soon as I figured out which one was betting on me - I asked him if I could have a word with him in the men’s room. I explained who I was and what I did for a living and asked him what % he might give me if I won a considerable amount of games.
He got pissed off and said I had a lot of nerve asking for something at all. This was his friend and they bet each other all the time, and what he bet was none of my business.
I said "No Problem - Have a good day"!
I went back playing and as luck would have it - I lost the next 7 games in a row.
My farmer buddy asked me to come back to the men’s room.
He asked if 33.3% would be enough.
I said "No Problem - AND - I'm sure you will have a good day, NOW"!
The most difficult problem was having to keep turning down my opponent’s request to raise the bet.
The last thing I wanted was for him to Run Out Of Cash.
Bottom Line - I won $260 from my opponent & $8,600 from the RAIL-BETS.
My Farmer Buddy & his buddy quit betting One Game prior to my opponent running out of bullets.
I later heard that that was one of the best years ever for the farmer’s crops all across the USA.
The moral of this story is - "What Goes Around - Comes Around"!

TY & GL
 
Opie said:
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine got into some action with a guy and one thing led to another and I ended up sidebetting on my friend. Another guy I know was sidebetting along with me. Anyways, to make a VERY LONG session short, I ended up making a few bills and the other guy sidebetting made a few bills as well. However, neither of us knew the "appropriate" amount we should give my friend for winning for us. So we went up and asked him how much he wanted. He said that if we just paid the table time that it would be cool. So me and the other guy paid the table time that was $70.50. My question is basically what percentage of your winnings off sidebets should you throw to the guy who won it for you?

Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
Click to expand...

It would depend on who you are betting with. If you are just sweat betting with another sweater that is your business. If you are betting with the guys backer or even the opponent himself you owe something to the player if you win. You are dipping into money he may have won himself. Remember, just because a player may not want to raise the bet, you have no right to chime in and say, "I'll take the rest of that bet". He may have good reason for not wanting to raise the bet or plans on raising it when he wants to and what he is doing is none of your business. I was once stuck to a guy like a thousand on a bar table and talked him into going to a bowling alley to play some on a big table. Everyone followed us over there and without me knowing it a few started betting on me with the guys backer. After a while he pulled up saying they had lost enough and if I wanted to go back to the bar table he would still play, otherwise that was it. I was completely confused, I wasn't even even yet and they are almost broke. Turns out several guys were betting like $100 a game each on the side and busted them while I was still stuck money. The only winners were the side bettors. I was just a stupid kid and didn't know any better and got screwed. In answer to your question, I would always give the guy something if I won some money especially if it was a steal or the guy is a good friend I might give him half.
 
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10% is plenty and always appreciated although there might be circumstances that would either increase or reduce percentage. The truth is that most sidebettors stiff the players.

Martin


Opie said:
Hey everybody. Last weekend a friend of mine got into some action with a guy and one thing led to another and I ended up sidebetting on my friend. Another guy I know was sidebetting along with me. Anyways, to make a VERY LONG session short, I ended up making a few bills and the other guy sidebetting made a few bills as well. However, neither of us knew the "appropriate" amount we should give my friend for winning for us. So we went up and asked him how much he wanted. He said that if we just paid the table time that it would be cool. So me and the other guy paid the table time that was $70.50. My question is basically what percentage of your winnings off sidebets should you throw to the guy who won it for you?

Out of every 100 bucks you win, you should give _______ bucks to the horse.
Please fill in the blank for me.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
 
15-20% to the winner is better than having both players cut up your cash the next time you bet. IMO you don't owe them anything, but the players don't owe you anything either.
 
OldHasBeen said:
I was playing (hustling) bar pool in an Indiana small town, USA. I was only playing $10 9-Ball with a local. In other words - I had the Nuts.
I noticed a couple of farmers in coveralls sitting at a near by table and after each game they were paying each other with large stacks of C-Notes. As soon as I figured out which one was betting on me - I asked him if I could have a word with him in the men’s room. I explained who I was and what I did for a living and asked him what % he might give me if I won a considerable amount of games.
He got pissed off and said I had a lot of nerve asking for something at all. This was his friend and they bet each other all the time, and what he bet was none of my business.
I said "No Problem - Have a good day"!
I went back playing and as luck would have it - I lost the next 7 games in a row.
My farmer buddy asked me to come back to the men’s room.
He asked if 33.3% would be enough.
I said "No Problem - AND - I'm sure you will have a good day, NOW"!
The most difficult problem was having to keep turning down my opponent’s request to raise the bet.
The last thing I wanted was for him to Run Out Of Cash.
Bottom Line - I won $260 from my opponent & $8,600 from the RAIL-BETS.
My Farmer Buddy & his buddy quit betting One Game prior to my opponent running out of bullets.
I later heard that that was one of the best years ever for the farmer’s crops all across the USA.
The moral of this story is - "What Goes Around - Comes Around"!

TY & GL
Click to expand...


Tom, in the old days, that would be called, Jesse Justice. You might even know the guy by his real name, "Smokey" Joe Bartlett, LOL
 
As far as I'm concerned, no one has any moral obligation to give the backed players a percentage.

The main economic incentive for doing so is to reduce the possibility of the participants fixing it to share your contributions.

I've seen quite a few doubles matches where 3 guys were going 3rds in one sucker's loot. Not to mention how many calcuttas I've seen where a group buys one of their buddies and all throw the match to him.

If you want to bet, keep it to yourself and only bet with those you trust. Heck, it's hard enough to win ca$h, why give up 10-20% unless you're doing so to guarantee a player's best effort.
 
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