Siming Chen vs Donny Mills

It'd be interesting to see that hypothetical SVB vs. Siming match.

She's supposed to lose by ~21 racks anyway based strictly on their respective ratings.
She wouldn't lose by 50 but 35 could easily happen if she isn't at 100%.

I think her odds would actually be better without magic rack.
Recently one of our locals played a set with Kristina Tkach, who doesn't have a hard
ten ball break but she can make those 2nd row balls if the rack is perfect.
The first set he got beat pretty soundly, but when he offered to play again without the magic rack,
he was really crushing the break and she wasn't able to make a ball that reliably.
 
It'd be interesting to see that hypothetical SVB vs. Siming match.

She's supposed to lose by ~21 racks anyway based strictly on their respective ratings.
She wouldn't lose by 50 but 35 could easily happen if she isn't at 100%.

I think her odds would actually be better without magic rack.
Recently one of our locals played a set with Kristina Tkach, who doesn't have a hard
ten ball break but she can make those 2nd row balls if the rack is perfect.
The first set he got beat pretty soundly, but when he offered to play again without the magic rack,
he was really crushing the break and she wasn't able to make a ball that reliably.

So what were the results of 1st and 2nd set?
 
Siming Chen fargo just went up to 787. (Top 100 list)

If you look up her name its 789.

Sky 787
Melling 783
Ruslan 783
Corey 781
Rodney Morris 779

i was one of the non-believers, but yea in 9-ball i think she could win against all of them except woodward. but then again i don't think he should be anywhere below 800 as of now.
 
Have Shane play Siming some ryo template rack 10 ball to 100 and see what would happen to her rating. He would probably beat her by 50. Then have them play nine on the spot 9 Ball and it would be much closer. I understand the system treats all games the same but they aren't. How much it matters you probably already know.

You can bet $20,000 on that match. I'll take Siming and 50 games.
Jason
 
It'd be interesting to see that hypothetical SVB vs. Siming match.

You, like a lot of folks would like to see it but, interesting is something it, IMO wouldn't be.

I like to see something that's hard to find these days and that is:

Close, even matches.

The powers that be (backers) are not willing to put their horse in the ring unless they have a lock.
 
You're so brave Jason. What do you think the line would be?

It's not "brave" to take advantage of someone's misogyny. YOU are the one who said he would probably beat her by 50 games.

Such wholly ignorant statements must be punished in order for the new wave of women to get the respect that their efforts deserve.
 
Seriously shut up Russ and stop pretending like you are so virtuous or I'll post some of your rambling bigoted comments from FB.

I've really had enough of you.
 
Seriously shut up Russ and stop pretending like you are so virtuous or I'll post some of your rambling bigoted comments from FB.

I've really had enough of you.

Feel free to post absolutely anything I have posted on Facebook. Not ashamed of anything I have ever written.

Slap leather, gunslinger!
 
Feel free to post absolutely anything I have posted on Facebook. Not ashamed of anything I have ever written.

Slap leather, gunslinger!

Nah that's not my style. Instead I'll just put you on ignore. I've been here for almost 10 years and never felt compelled to do it before now. You've just become so obnoxious. Later.
 
i was one of the non-believers, but yea in 9-ball i think she could win against all of them except woodward. but then again i don't think he should be anywshhere below 800 as of now.[/QUO I Chris melling could beat her or sky .

So... She "could" beat them... Or they "could" beat her.

What are we debating about, again? :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
 
It's not "brave" to take advantage of someone's misogyny. YOU are the one who said he would probably beat her by 50 games.

Such wholly ignorant statements must be punished in order for the new wave of women to get the respect that their efforts deserve.

Russ, Sir, I agree that people should be rewarded for their accomplishments but, unless EVERYONE gets a trophy, nobody should get rewarded for just "trying", regardless of how close they get to the cheese.
 
Russ, Sir, I agree that people should be rewarded for their accomplishments but, unless EVERYONE gets a trophy, nobody should get rewarded for just "trying", regardless of how close they get to the cheese.

??? They're not "trying".

This new breed of women players are actually taking scalps of top top top players in events, and are drilling players only a little under them for the cash.

One good thing about these ladies is this:

The younger male champions will not be misogynists, one and all, because they will have grown up competing with (and getting beat by on a semiregular basis) these new women players.
 
It turns out that does not skew things.

Think about it like this.

Imagine we start by deleting ALL games played between men and women. And we first do our optimization for just the men. What would we see?

The men would look like they do now. We always can shift the ratings up or down without affecting things. We could make SVB 900 if we want. Then everyone else would just go up 78 points. But let's leave it the way it is--just the men with SVB at 822.

Now, we optimize just the women. They would look about the way they do now. But we'd have to decide how to shift them up or down. Perhaps we decide to make Siming the same as SVB, 822. Then all the other women would be about 40 points above what you see now and there would be no reason to think a man's rating and a woman's rating can be compared. We just wouldn't know.

So we have Siming at 822, Karen Corr at 760 or so, Kristina Tkatch at 740 or so, and so on.

Now we start adding in the coupling games. And this is where people's intuition about what to expect may not be very good. Suppose the first match we add (and the only match) is Wilkie 12 Siming 4. For this match Siming is performing 167 points below Wilkie and there are no other forces between the groups. So Siming goes to 584, Karen to 520, and Kristina to 500. In other words this one match completely decided how the women are shifted compared to the men. It doesn't matter that Kristina has all her games against women or most of her games against much weaker women. Now add in another 141 Siming/men games and the 122 Chezka/men games and 43 Fu/men games i mentioned. Now there are about 300 games rather than 16 determining the big shift. At this point there is about a two thirds chance the shifting is right within 15 points. Siming could be at 770 or at 800. But she's pretty unlikely to be at 745 or 815.

Now we add in Karen Corr's couple thousand games against men. Now there is a pretty good chance the shift is right within maybe 6 points.

Now we add in many more thousands of games from top-100 women played against men. Melissa Herndon alone has played many hundreds of games against men on the Mezz West State tour. Oscar and Vilmos are both rated 773. Just against Oscar and Vilmos Melissa has played 73 games (23 wins 50 losses). that's performing 113 points below them, 660. Her rating is 663. And of course she's also played Rodney and Edgie Geronimo and Ellerman and Ernesto and and Butera and on and on. And Melissa has played a lot of 600 and 550 male players. And if she didn't beat them the way she is supposed to, that would affect the shift.

There are several more Melissa's. And then the bulk of 550 and 600-level women that play top women's events in the USA also go back and play in weekly and regional tournaments and league and so forth against the men.

There is a lot of coupling.


mike, thanks for taking the time to reply.

I had to read what you wrote a few times (smile), but the coupling thing makes sense, and I think I understand how that idea is valuable to the men vs. women discussion.
I was hung up on just a few players' stats, whereas now it appears it's actually the whole that proves the exception(al player- siming, etc..).

I also follow stats in tennis, and really enjoy the access to all the different information that's out there..even as an amateur, you can get inside the game and kind of figure things out.

by comparison, pool is a mystery. do you think the good folks at fargo ever make more stats public/searchable? things like individual match/tournament results, head to head, etc.

thanks again.
 
Jason,
I said that based on what SVB has done to others in that format, including Dennis Orcollo, not that I would actually think that would be the betting line nor am I interested in placing a bet on this hypothetical matchup as I'm not John Barton. I do think it would be between 25 and 30 games if you would like to steal some money on this should hell freeze over and this match happened.

I guess you just can't have nuanced conversations with at least half of the people in the world anymore without someone trying to stifle the conversation with their outrage.
 
I must not get out much. I had no idea that women were being treated so badly. I had NO IDEA!

Shame on the men folk!

Have I missed something that involves (natural) gender equality?

Reason I ask is because Russ and a few others make it sound like we are still in the early 1900's.... or even earlier.
 
I think Sky's rating would have went up quite a bit if Derby complete match results were entered instead of just 1-0 for each match won. He beat the daylights out of everybody until the finals. Most match scores seemed to be between 11-4 and 11-7 vs top tier pros.

The DCC 9-Ball races are to 9. Woodward's streamed matches this year were:

Woodward d. Orcollo 9-5 (Round 12)
Aranas d. Woodward 9-5 (Finals, 1st Set)
Woodward d. Aranas 9-7 (Finals, 2nd Set)
 
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