Kudos to Jay Helfert for making us aware of this, back then, up and comer.
Siming Chen
- Thread starter Rhea
- Start date
Kudos to Jay Helfert for making us aware of this, back then, up and comer.
She is signed up for Vivian's Tornado Open event in New Jersey in November. I would not be surprised if Roy is helping arrange other plans.
Here's Jay's report on his first sighting of her (2011): https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2958872&postcount=1
Wow, Jay picked up on this 7 years ago.
He’s a great judge of talent.
Yeah, that Jay... we need to have him stuffed and placed in a pool museum somewhere. Yes, he's THAT good. :yeah: :grin: :yeah:
If there were agents in pool, Jay would be our Swifty Lazar!
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who are you?
Completely disagree. The premise that pool can be made more popular if it's a battle of the sexes presupposes that non-pool players care about high -evel pool in the first place. The fact is that most people don't even know that pool is played professionally.
So Siming's matches wouldn't increase the amount of pool played. Male players might be interested in watching the matches so there might be decent numbers for streamers but I doubt it will be much more than any other high level matches.
The overriding theme though is that it would be setting her up to fail. Take any male pro and pit them against other male pros at the same skill level and they will NOT dominate those other players. They will win some and lose some. Pit a 790 against an 820 and the 820 WILL win the majority of the matches but not all of them. Put a 790 against a 760 and the 790 will win the majority but not all of the matches.
So making it a battle of the sexes basically is pinning all the hopes for the female gender on one good player. The whole point of Fargo Ratings is to determine skill level regardless of gender. So there is virtually no chance that a male 790 and a female 790 are going to play dramatically differently just because it's a male vs. female match-up if both play to their rating.
Unless the male has ego problems and way underperforms because he is facing a strong woman. This is a real issue because the male is expected to carry the torch for the male and may face or think he will face ridicule for losing to a woman. This is the social pressure aspect which is intangible and hard to predict the effect of on performance.
But if the male is able to focus just on playing and is not bothered by the social expectations/stigmas and the same for the woman then all that's left is performance and two players of equal rating will most likely be extremely close.
So, yeah it would be cool to Siming play but there is no chance that any series of such matches would have much impact on pool's popularity. We have had high profile men/women matches in the past and they have all not resulted in any measurable influence on pool's popularity.
At the end of the day, in my opinion, the ONLY people who like to claim online that women are inferior to men in pool JUST BECAUSE they are women are people who won't get up and play a woman who is rated higher than them and bet their own playing even. They won't EVER put their money where their mouthes are and challenge higher rated women players to play for anything significant, if at all.
Real male players, the ones who TRULY know how to play, know full well that gender is meaningless and the only result that matters is what happens on the table. They know that every PERSON has a skill level and that how well a person does in any match is directly a result of their skill. So male players who understand this match-up accordingly. They ask for weight from women players when they know they need it. They offer weight when they know they have to.
This is why you DON'T see a bunch of 700 speed men out there barking at the 750+ women trying to match up even. They see very clearly what skills are displayed and know very clearly that they face tough competitiors if they were to try to match up even.
This short bus russ guy can get played. I don't know what his fargo rate is but if he wants to play any woman that is 100 fargo points above him for ANY amount up to $100,000 with a minimum of $10,000 in a race to 100 I will back the woman.
I am confident that he won't want to try and prove his superiority in that situation. And yes, I consider it to be a LOCK that he cannot win with a 100 point ratings difference. But since he believes that men are superior to women maybe he thinks that he can overcome the ratings difference.
Any woman that is established at 50 points above him I will back for $5000 a set in races to 25 with a minimum of 3 sets.
I will be in Las Vegas for a month starting next week and am available to back these matches if he wants to play. If he posts the money in advance I will pay for his flight and hotel.
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No, I am not interested in a protracted nature/nurture hunter/gatherer debate. My ONLY point here is that I believe that Mike Page and his partner have created the most accurate skill rating that we have ever seen in pool and I am confident enough to bet AGAINST this guy ONLY on the basis of Fargo Ratings if HE steps up to play even with no handicap against women who are rated above him.
I firmly believe that he WILL NOT take me up on this offer but if he does then we can see if Fargo Ratings bears out in the matches he agrees to play.
I am confident that he won't want to try and prove his superiority in that situation. And yes, I consider it to be a LOCK that he cannot win with a 100 point ratings difference. But since he believes that men are superior to women maybe he thinks that he can overcome the ratings difference.
Any woman that is established at 50 points above him I will back for $5000 a set in races to 25 with a minimum of 3 sets.
I will be in Las Vegas for a month starting next week and am available to back these matches if he wants to play. If he posts the money in advance I will pay for his flight and hotel.
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No, I am not interested in a protracted nature/nurture hunter/gatherer debate. My ONLY point here is that I believe that Mike Page and his partner have created the most accurate skill rating that we have ever seen in pool and I am confident enough to bet AGAINST this guy ONLY on the basis of Fargo Ratings if HE steps up to play even with no handicap against women who are rated above him.
I firmly believe that he WILL NOT take me up on this offer but if he does then we can see if Fargo Ratings bears out in the matches he agrees to play.
His flight might be expensive. He's in Germany now... used to be in CO, just like you.
I think the ShortBuss plays really strong.
Check out the way he describes himself:
If he bets the minimum I will be ok with the expense.
As long as he has an established FargoRating he can get played. Fargo Ratings are based on performance records and not one's own estimation of one's speed. I have run five racks against a pro player as well once in my life and lost that set 11-5.
In 2009 Karen Corr went up against Liu Sha Sha and went out to a 5-1 lead I think. Liu then ran 5 or six racks to pass Karen and went on to win the world title.
When you can do that against the world's elite under that pressure then you are part of that elite. It doesn't matter if you can do it once in a hundred or a thousand attempts, you have to be able to come with it when the pressure is on.
I am 100% sure that Russ does not have that kind of firepower. Especially when there is the additional pressure of possibly losing to a woman.
Wow.. I see you're your usual nitty self, eh John? I don't seem to remember arguing against the validity of the Fargorate system, so not sure where all the swelling up is coming from. So, basically, you only wanna bet when there is a mortal lock.
Me too. If I am at Derby again this year, you're guaranteed some $300.00 a game One Pocket, if you want it. You can personally get a taste of how well a working man can play if someone talks enough shit to him. My Fargo rate is right there for anyone to check. I don't seem to see yours, but if you can play in the low 600s, you're prolly relatively safe. I have no fantasy that I could beat Siming Chen, but I got more than enough in the tank to beat you, judging by the looks of that action match with Lou I watched.
And let me be clear. It wasn't a matter of stroke. You just simply shot some of the dumbest One Pocket I've ever seen. I actually think Lou was laying down on you a bit, once he got his nerves under him a bit.
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I think we’re a little off-track here, JB....
...Russ has a considered opinion, whether any of us disagree or not.
I have seen backers and sidebettors that can handicap a pool match wel....
....and can’t hit the end rail themselves.
On the pound for pound boxing argument, I have always argued for Ali over Sugar Ray
Robinson....I say pound for pound works both ways.....
....If I fought any pro boxer, they’d turn me into a punching bag....
...but my boxing opinion can be valid.
It's crazy how far we have come when having the opinion that men (on average) have a physical advantage over women when it comes to pool puts you under the microscope.
Also, some are reading too much into the Donny vs Siming match. A large part of Donny's FargoRating is based on the fact that he breaks the balls better than most players around his skill level and in that match he broke poorly.
Win or lose, I would love to see him play her again.
Also, some are reading too much into the Donny vs Siming match. A large part of Donny's FargoRating is based on the fact that he breaks the balls better than most players around his skill level and in that match he broke poorly.
Win or lose, I would love to see him play her again.
Ditto. This time, in a race to 100. But that said, I still think it would be close, either way. She is phenomenal.
Yawn.
Let's see if I can translate this......
blah blah blah blah blah......... I can't beat women rated above me.......blah blah blah blah.....I can beat you.....blah blah blah blah blah.....Lou.
As Mike Page explained somewhere else regarding strengths and weaknesses it's the combination of variables that make a player have the skill level that he or she has. A player can be a strong breaker but maybe a weaker banker or vice versa and have the same rating.
Perhaps Siming ALSO played under her rating in that match so if Donny's break had been better and Siming hadn't uncharacteristically missed several easy shots in the match then the score might have been the same.
Mike is also extremely clear that in any given series of games between any two people it's possible to play WAY over one's rating or WAY under one's rating.
For example if I play SVB a race to ten and win 10-2 then I have played at 800 speed and he has played at 400 speed for those 12 games between us. However if that 10-2 score comes in the middle of a race to 100 where I lose 80-20 then the performance rating for those 100 games is reversed.
So at the moment Donny and Siming have played 28 games and the score is 15-13. That's currently in line with their respective ratings. More games (data) will show us whether or not the ratings are accurate between them within the margin of error or whether they are way off. I lean towards accurate.