I had my cloth replaced recently on my 7 ft. C.L. Bailey with Simionis 860 because I wanted a faster speed than the cloth that came with the table. Other than being able to stop the ball on long shots with an easier stroke than before and being able to draw easier on long shots, the table speed seems the same. The test I use is to place the cb on the rail where the cloth and wood meet and let the cb free roll onto the table. It will roll to the third diamond when rolled from the short rail on one side and a slight bit further than the third diamond when done on the opposite side. I did this test many times with the old cloth and the results were always consistent. When the 860 was installed I am getting the same results with this test and am pretty disappointed. Do I have a concern that Siminois 860 was indeed installed. I do this test on bar tables where I play and the ball rolls much further sometimes to the fifth diamond.
Simionis 860
- Thread starter Art Amato
- Start date
Look up Bob Jewetts cloth speed test. It's standardised for a 9 ft. table though.
approx. 9 seconds to travel from one short rail to the other. You need a stop watch. Hit softly from the head spot - start the timer when the CB hits the foot rail. The speed of the shot should be such that it *JUST* has enough pace to return to touch the head rail. stop the timer when it touches.
Ur cloth should have been printed with the Iwan Simonis name on it. (easy to forge though I guess ??)
Cheers.
approx. 9 seconds to travel from one short rail to the other. You need a stop watch. Hit softly from the head spot - start the timer when the CB hits the foot rail. The speed of the shot should be such that it *JUST* has enough pace to return to touch the head rail. stop the timer when it touches.
Ur cloth should have been printed with the Iwan Simonis name on it. (easy to forge though I guess ??)
Cheers.
Simonis has to be installed properly though....it gets stretched pretty tightly.
Do Sir Jewett's test and get back to us.
Do Sir Jewett's test and get back to us.
Did you say stretch, I'm not kidding!!
Anyone ever seen a carpet stretcher, if you can invent one for simonis 860 you might get rich. You gotta get it tight to get it right.
Anyone ever seen a carpet stretcher, if you can invent one for simonis 860 you might get rich. You gotta get it tight to get it right.
Possible explanations:
1. Cloth might not be tight
2. You have the table in a humid area.
3. The cloth is not Simonis
4. 860 will slow down A LOT over time. While 760 will stay fast (although it slows down some) the 860 will play like shag carpet after 3-4 months in a pool hall.
5 Your rails are dead.
Combination of 1,2, and 5 will be extremely bad no matter what brand of cloth you have.
It may be that the installer did not stretch the 860 very tight... the tighter it is stretched over the slate, the faster it will be... I have a 9 foot table that recently had 860 installed (very tight)... personally, it's a little faster than I prefer, but since it is a home 'practice' table, it has taught me bigtime on cueball and speed control...
Is this a common issue?
We sold a customer some Simonis 860 he had "professionally" installed, no I don't know who do it" that was concerned about creases. When I contacted my distributor they reiterated that Simonis needs to be stretched extremely tight.
We sold a customer some Simonis 860 he had "professionally" installed, no I don't know who do it" that was concerned about creases. When I contacted my distributor they reiterated that Simonis needs to be stretched extremely tight.
Bud.. 3030 is only $5-$10 less if ordered from me...
30/30 is not much of a saving.
It's very difficult for most to get 30/30 to stick and stay stuck when stretched very tight on a frameless slate. The glue used for simonis on diamonds edge application don't work well on 30/30..
Only a few guys can put 30/30 on without having it come loose somewhere down the road, cloth creeps loose as the elasticity pulls the cloth to relax, the spray glue-N-go method will fail.
30/30 is more like glass than 860. 30/30 flattens out dead flat.
Rob.M
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30/30 is not much of a saving.
It's very difficult for most to get 30/30 to stick and stay stuck when stretched very tight on a frameless slate. The glue used for simonis on diamonds edge application don't work well on 30/30..
Only a few guys can put 30/30 on without having it come loose somewhere down the road, cloth creeps loose as the elasticity pulls the cloth to relax, the spray glue-N-go method will fail.
30/30 is more like glass than 860. 30/30 flattens out dead flat.
Rob.M
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Johnny -
I slightly prefer Simonis but Champion is a good alternative. I don't think, once you get to it isn't a huge difference in cost, JMO.
I enjoy your stories and I will share this one, I had a guy that wanted to gamble with me, and I have never seen him play or me him, but whatever gambling (cheap) is always a good way to see where you stand.
But, he will only play me on his table at his house. I say okay and met him there.
The cloth on that table was like a blanket, literally like a blanket, it would take nearly a break stroke to go up and down the table. The cloth had a "nap" to it. I have never seen anything before or since like it in the world.
I knew I was in trap but it was relatively cheap 9 ball and playing by the game, I could get out anytime I wanted.
Yes it cost me a little, but I knew I was a better player, but on this table the handicap was too much and he was too experienced on it.
I later learned he trapped much better players than me on that same table.
Ever run into anything like that?
Ken
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Here is the Joe Waldron article on cloth speed testing.....Hope this helps
http://billiards.colostate.edu/PBReview/Stimpmeter1.htm
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This is my first thought. Years back, one of the struggling poolhall decided to invest in Simonis for the first row, but their installers were not experienced didn't stretch it enough. It didn't play any faster or better than the economy cloth they put on the rest of the tables.
I'm that guy. I have had a 7' Valley in my home or apartment for over 50 years...thank you lovely wife. I almost always had my Valley's tricked out and if It didn't take but 30 minutes to trick it. First, tip table so one corner pocket has a downward hill going to it. Two, loosen 4 rails and slide two to one corner pocket (making that pocket 1/2" smaller, then do same to other end of table. Three, before tightening rails back up, reset one rail very low and one too high. Unless you bring home a buzz saw (player), this should give you a good spot for at least the first 6 to 12 games. Get him quick. Ba Ding. Johnnyt
OK fellows, here is the deal. My table is a brand new table with great lively rails. My basement is NOT humid. The cloth was put on by a professional installer from whom I purchased the table. It was stretched very tightly as I watched. I just got off the phone with the installer and he said he is sorry that I am not happy with the speed but there is nothing he can do about it. He suggested other cloths that would play faster but I am not that wealthy that I could do another cloth job after only one month. He swears to me that it is 860 and I did see it when it was taken out of the Simionis bag. He seems like a reputable guy so I have to take him at his word. I just do not understand the situation because I have played on 860 at other locations and the speed is considerably faster. I want to thank all of the replies that I was given and am open to any suggestions for my problem. Thanks again.
speed
http://www.uscoin-op.com/product_p/126-1486-8rb.htm
when the cloth came out of the bag were you able to see the Simonis logo stitched into the cloth? Also when you put your hand down flat on the table and push does the cloth move? or bunch up at all?
Can't speak to your specific installers but history of this forum has shown on many occasions that there is a cataclysmic difference between an installer and a true table Mechanic. That is why there is whole Sub-Forum where these type of questions can be asked.
Talk to a Mechanic, check it out and do a search your question has been asked and answered. There are several reasons why your table isn't as fast as you expect it to play.
http://www.uscoin-op.com/product_p/126-1486-8rb.htm
when the cloth came out of the bag were you able to see the Simonis logo stitched into the cloth? Also when you put your hand down flat on the table and push does the cloth move? or bunch up at all?
Can't speak to your specific installers but history of this forum has shown on many occasions that there is a cataclysmic difference between an installer and a true table Mechanic. That is why there is whole Sub-Forum where these type of questions can be asked.
Talk to a Mechanic, check it out and do a search your question has been asked and answered. There are several reasons why your table isn't as fast as you expect it to play.
Pictures
^^^^^ that is not FUNNY!! I had a guy do that once I almost Cried Real tears!!^^^^^^
Please post some pictures of the table a couple close ups of the cloth. don't forget to have a rail or a ball in the picture for contrast.
^^^^^ that is not FUNNY!! I had a guy do that once I almost Cried Real tears!!^^^^^^
Please post some pictures of the table a couple close ups of the cloth. don't forget to have a rail or a ball in the picture for contrast.
Simonis Logo is on the playing surface side yeah ?
Cloth bunching up test is a good one.
Also - get some objective data !
(do a speed test on ur table and also do a speed test on the table u *think* is faster than urs that also has 860 on it)
Tables need to be same size for speed test data to be apples & apples.
Cheers.
Cloth bunching up test is a good one.
Also - get some objective data !
(do a speed test on ur table and also do a speed test on the table u *think* is faster than urs that also has 860 on it)Tables need to be same size for speed test data to be apples & apples.
Cheers.