Single vs Double Elimination

Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Times change and times precious, if your in stroke practiced up and ready for play, wouldn't you rather be ''one outta the money'' at 5 pm than 1am?
I'd much rather play in two $40 single elimination 1/2 day events than one $80 two day event.
How about you?
Why do all tournaments have to be Dbl Elim?
 
Keep in mind, these type events Don't Effect the business owners regular customers, tables are open on a Sat night. Never in a two day event. But I totally understand No, but not everyone thinks like we do.
 
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DE is a silly primitive format now only used in fringe sports like pool. The more popular format (with more than 1 chance) in major sports is round robin (stage 1)+ SE (stage 2). Because round robin is simple easy to follow while you need a magnifying glass to go through the haystack DE bracket.
 
Island Drive said:
Times change and times precious, if your in stroke practiced up and ready for play, wouldn't you rather be ''one outta the money'' at 5 pm than 1am?
I'd much rather play in two $40 single elimination 1/2 day events than one $80 two day event.
How about you?
Why do all tournaments have to be Dbl Elim?
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Honestly I think I'd prefer SE.

I try to play DE as if it were SE. It's much easier to win 5 sets than 15. Of course it depends on the size and skill and luck of the draw, but if I go at least 3-4 rounds without losing I am in a good spot.

I'm generally a "I didn't hear no bell" type of guy. That said, once I lost my first game and said to hell with it and forfeited. It's not that I couldn't claw my way back, but I felt like crap and didn't want to spend all day grinding like hell, I just wasn't feeling it. If I'd felt better and been somewhat in stroke I probably would have stayed but I immediately shat the bed right out of the gate. I went home and enjoyed the rest of my Saturday. Not my proudest moment but I enjoyed myself a lot better than enduring all day for at most a couple hundred bucks.
 
I'm OK with single elimination as long as it is seeded. Every tournament must build to a crescendo and a lack of seeding will compromise that objective. Tennis, which has single elimination as the rule, understands this, and seeding ensures that the top 16 will not face each other until the late stages.

The real problems with single elimination in pool are:

a) A lot of players will view it as a crapshoot and choose not to show up. It costs a lot of money to travel to events, and it will be super-tough for all but the elite to cash. It's not like tennis, where first round losers at the 2025 US Open got $110,000.
b) luck of the draw will have too much impact on the rankings. In double elimination, even if used in qualifying only, the loser's bracket gives those who draw poorly in round one a chance to show their stuff if they have it.

Pool players will never buy into single elimination until last place money more than covers participation expenses, and I don't see that day coming anytime soon at the majors. As we have seen, last place, more or less, covers expenses at events like the PLP, World Pool Masters, World Cup of Pool, but it is hard for an event producer to make much money from those events.

In short, I think single elimination would fly with the fans but not with the players.
 
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One day events require NO room, and 4 guys can split gas drive 3 hrs and be there, drive home same day. Keep costs down.
 
Single elimination would be fine with me but for me there's no local 3C tournaments closer than 300 miles.
That format doesn't work for 3C.
Round Robin and 3days min is the only way for this game.
Looking at a $grand expenses give or take, which makes the prize money moot.
Just go and have fun for a long weekend visiting old friends.
The money just isn't there to even pay for the trip even if you win the thing.

The best expectation is to break even and you gotta win it to even come close.
 
as sjm says it gives weaker players all kinds of new chances. and the top players will not always get to the finals.
so thats the downside, as you may lose some of the top players showing up.

the upside is many more not so top players will put up the entry fees thinking they may now have a chance. and now they do. and spectators get to see new blood.
and more can come as they all dont have many days to spare in a dingy hotel with bad food choices.
 
Local weekly type events should all be single elimination in my strong opinion. I got sick of double elimination taking FOREVER, that I became a local TD and all of my events are single elimination. I also encourage matching up after losing. Matching up in local double elimination events is very difficult these days, because 1) everyone is still in the event, and 2) all the tables are used for the event until late rounds.
 
sjm said:
I'm OK with single elimination as long as it is seeded. Every tournament must build to a crescendo and a lack of seeding will compromise that objective. Tennis, which has single elimination as the rule, understands this, and seeding ensures that the top 16 will not face each other until the late stages.

The real problems with single elimination in pool are:

a) A lot of players will view it as a crapshoot and choose not to show up. It costs a lot of money to travel to events, and it will be super-tough for all but the elite to cash. It's not like tennis, where first round losers at the 2025 US Open got $110,000.
b) luck of the draw will have too much impact on the rankings. In double elimination, even if used in qualifying only, the loser's bracket gives those who draw poorly in round one a chance to show their stuff if they have it.

Pool players will never buy into single elimination until last place money more than covers participation expenses, and I don't see that day coming anytime soon at the majors. As we have seen, last place, more or less, covers expenses at events like the PLP, World Pool Masters, World Cup of Pool, but it is hard for an event producer to make much money from those events.

In short, I think single elimination would fly with the fans but not with the players.
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You are correct.

As a player, I think if a tournament starts with DE, it should with DE.

If people don't have the stamina to stay up late and play, they should take some vitamins or Red Bull.

I am older than dirt and I have played NON-STOP 22 hours STRAIGHT several times in the last few years without taking a break,, other than bathroom and I was still going strong. Only reason I quit at 22 hours was that it was closing time at Hawaiian Brian's.

I grew up where you played until you won all the money, lost all your money, or the place closed, whichever came first.

If the place closed first, we found someplace else that was open and continued.
 
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HawaiianEye said:
You are correct.

As a player, I think if a tournament starts with DE, it should with DE.

If people don't have the stamina to stay up late and play, they should take some vitamins or Red Bull.

I am older than dirt and I have played NON-STOP 22 hours STRAIGHT several times in the last few years without taking a break,, other than bathroom and I was still going strong. Only reason I quit at 22 hours was that it was closing time at Hawaiian Brian's.

I grew up where you played until you won all the money, lost all your money, or the place closed, whichever came first.

If the place closed first, we found someplace else that was open and continued.
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True, but this isn't then....
And yes if an event Starts with DE it should stay that way.
Nothing was mentioned about switching it during play.
 
Frosty said:
Single elimination is fine, if races are say to 11 or 13.
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If the two formats are the same race, then DE improves the odds for the top players. An interesting question is how much longer do the SE races have to be to give the top players the same odds of winning. Maybe 50% longer? That would still be a time win.

While we're on the subject, I'll bring up SE with buy-back again.

Run a bunch of SE "qualifiers" with maybe four or eight players. Each qualifier is played straight through with no waiting once it starts. If you're knocked out of a qualifier, enter another, if and when you are ready. Stop running qualifiers when it's time to start the final phase, which is also SE. All of the finalists are in the money. Maybe have the final phase on Sunday.

There is no need to be present when the qualifiers start -- start one as soon as you have enough players entered. Play starts at 11 AM, but it's OK if someone doesn't show up to qualify until 4. The earlier qualifiers get any byes in the finals.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I found a hole in your format;)

Have a stool pigeon alert player xyz when the weakest players are all there.
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There are ways to do the draw where the players won't know exactly who will be in their group.

Also, if the event is handicapped, who you're playing isn't quite as important.
 
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