Six ball run out - criticism wanted

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why Fran? Wrong side of the bed?
This post makes absolutely no sense to me. It's arrogant and flippant. Fran makes a legitimate point and you treat it as a joke.
Could be unintended but seems somewhat pretentious to me but I'm not an instructor.
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
This post makes absolutely no sense to me. It's arrogant and flippant. Fran makes a legitimate point and you treat it as a joke.
Could be unintended but seems somewhat pretentious to me but I'm not an instructor.
Sparkle you win my respect the more you post...👍
 

DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think things have been blown out of proportion here on this thread. But then again, that happens to alot of threads here on this AZB Forum. Alot of times things get twisted around on purpose.

r/DCP
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think things have been blown out of proportion here on this thread. But then again, that happens to alot of threads here on this AZB Forum. Alot of times things get twisted around on purpose.
Why don't you share your widsom with us on specifically what was blown out of proportion here?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I think things have been blown out of proportion here on this thread. But then again, that happens to alot of threads here on this AZB Forum. Alot of times things get twisted around on purpose.

r/DCP
I think you mean that happens to your posts a lot (wonder why...).

Maybe you should teach us all a lesson and find another forum to complain about. That'd be just what we deserve.

pj
chgo
 
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u12armresl

One Pocket back cutter
Silver Member
Why don't you share your widsom with us on specifically what was blown out of proportion here?
That's what DCP does. He talks about how things are turned around or his ever popular "I never said that" and can't cite any examples.
I have never met anyone who even closely resembles that guy in over 30 years around on the road.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
Here is my attempt (this was a good turn out for me) at running six balls. I know I needed more speed on the four, which would have put me further up table on the five, and I wouldn't have left myself such a hard shot on the six. I am only starting to work on pattern play as I have been drilling my fundamentals. It's slow (sorry) as I am trying to slow down and concentrate on every shot.
Thanks, and I hope you guys have a good Christmas, Hanukkah, Atheist Day off, whatever.
I'm a little late to the party, but I think going from the 5 to the 6 left you in an awkward position where you had to use the bridge on a sort of thin cut or bank. I'm not that great or anything, but personally I would have played it hard with some inside (right) to kill it off the rail, yet hard enough to go down table and back up near the rail. It's touchy but I often find with those shots that if I try to baby it for shape, I end up with a much harder shot on the next ball. Of course it takes some practicing and drills to get the speed of your table down, and every table/cloth will require adjustment. I'm not saying this is the correct line, as I'm still learning this stuff myself, so just take it as a different thought experiment. I think the real thing was you got out of line on the 5 a little, which happens to everyone. I usually find my "runs" end by me missing shape in 2-3 shots before the one I actually miss. You did a hell of a good job getting out on this!

I second what @sparkle84 said, very good advice there. All this stuff takes time, keep up your good fundamentals and the other stuff will happen more naturally! Remember to keep having fun!
 
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Leigh

Registered
Alrighty. The feedback and subsequent practice is paying off.
I took everything to heart and stopped playing so “tight“. I realized I was also keeping my cue pressed up against the side of my body and not let it’s letting it swing freely. Ever since I gave a little more space (it still touches it’s just not creating a lot of friction) I can suddenly draw the ball much farther and more consistently, and I can follow a couple of rails around the table. This might not seem like a big deal, but this is huge for me. Loosening up, following through, and not decelerating has helped and truly boosted my confidence.
And it’s so much fun to really move the cue ball around.
FYI, On the video even though my pattern play wasn’t very good and I wasn’t moving the cue ball around, it was still unusual for me to run out the balls, one through six, when playing them in order. So I was pretty happy about that, just not happy with how I played if that makes sense.
Since making these changes, I can play better patterns because I’m more confident with where the ball is going to go and the fact that I can actually get it there.
On a side note, why does being able to able to really draw the cue ball back make you feel like such a badass? When I do it I’m so entirely uncool about it… I get so excited.
For some reason every once in a while these posts erupt into arguments, just know that all the advice and feedback is not in vain and does not fall upon deaf ears. And I know there are lurkers out there who are reading this and also getting a lot from it as well.
Thank you thank you thank you.
To me this is the equivalent of being a beginning guitar player, posting on a random forum, and having Eddie Van Halen write you back.
-Leigh
 

evergruven

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FYI, On the video even though my pattern play wasn’t very good and I wasn’t moving the cue ball around, it was still unusual for me to run out the balls, one through six, when playing them in order. So I was pretty happy about that, just not happy with how I played if that makes sense.
instantly I'm reminded of a concept I learned in tennis that I think is generally useful,
the "good miss"
the definition is a little variable, but in your case I'm reminded of it in the sense that
yes, you ran the balls, but you didn't feel good about the way you executed it
to me, that's a sign that your game is growing, even if only in your mind

and I think the inverse, the "good miss," is what you say does make you feel good
relaxing a little, letting your stroke out, and letting the cue ball go with-
maybe it runs on you a little, you miss your position, or maybe even miss the pocket
but the point is, you *feel* good when you shoot- you're mindful of your body
you're aware of your technique, and what you seek to accomplish on the table
these things don't scare you tho, or cause you to freeze up- they excite you.

using all the knowledge gleaned from azb, and from hours of practice is enlivening
you're attentive to the shot, and with your lip corners upturned slightly, you let it rip!
*buhduhduh*- left it in the jaws. but you're still smiling. that could be a good miss.
it's a little different for everyone, because everyone is different
we all have unique skill sets, priorities on, and off of the pool table
but try the philosophy of "the good miss," and find out what it's worth to you
it might it help you diagnose your (pool) game, and therefore enjoy, and improve-
 

Leigh

Registered
Good point! I know my good misses: When let my stroke out, leave the cue ball exactly where I want it, but miss or rattle the pocket. Making the ball is so much easier than cue ball control and a consistent stroke, so I celebrate the small victories as o know they are stepping stones to the bigger ones.
 

boogieman

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that ping.
For some reason every once in a while these posts erupt into arguments, just know that all the advice and feedback is not in vain and does not fall upon deaf ears. And I know there are lurkers out there who are reading this and also getting a lot from it as well.
Thank you thank you thank you.
To me this is the equivalent of being a beginning guitar player, posting on a random forum, and having Eddie Van Halen write you back.
-Leigh
I know I've been getting a lot from these posts. There has been a lot of good advice. I'm in the part of my pool journey where I need, need, need to work on pattern play. It's slowly improving. I've not been focused on drills exactly, but I've been practicing better position when my nephew and I play. We play serious, but we also like to try interesting shots, even if they aren't the right shot and may lose us the game, so it's kind of serious along with trying unusual shots. These shots help program our "computer" as long as we look at them as a learning experience. I've only ran out on 9 ball a couple times and they were dead easy layouts. A couple nights ago, I broke and somehow 3 balls dropped. I had a very tough layout and managed to run out anyway, I'm still on that pool high. :) It's pretty fun to see ourselves improving even though it's tough going at times!

You're right about draw, something about it makes you feel like some kind of bad assed wizard or something. I got into a bad habit of using draw too much, but at the same time it really helped me understand the physics and other ways to get shape in less than ideal conditions, like with blockers and such. It shouldn't be so hard for me to understand, but I get why CJ says the game is the teacher. Just maintain focus long enough to understand why the shot did what it did and it adds to your bag of tricks. I used to get really upset if I'd miss, but now I try to figure out what happened and put the info into the database. Sometimes these misses will show us a new shot to use in the proper situation.
 

Scott Lee

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good advice. Now that I’m concentrating on the shot I definitely decelerate. And change the angle of my cue. It’s helped just to keep looking at the cue ball.
I think I’m following through but my follow-through is so short, and I believe this is just a matter of my physiology. If I hit the cue ball when my forearm is exactly perpendicular to my cue stick, if I follow all the way through to where my hand stops at my upper chest/arm pit area, it’s only a couple of inches.
Of course this is when I’m trying my hardest to follow through perfectly. I have to go back and watch the video to see if I actually did it.
Leigh...Your personal finish is yours. How far past the CB your tip finishes has no bearing on what happens afterwards. Cuestick speed, loose grip and tip position are the important variables. FYI Allison only finishes her stroke a couple inches past the CB (which is her natural finish), and she plays pretty well, drawing the CB table length effortlessly! As long as you're "finishing" your stroke the way we talked about (the boob shot) you will get the response you're looking for. More cuestick speed, but the same exact finish...grip issues need to be dealt with. As you know already, Randy, Jerry and myself have nothing but your best interest involved, no matter what traps some others try to post up.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Leigh...Your personal finish is yours. How far past the CB your tip finishes has no bearing on what happens afterwards. Cuestick speed, loose grip and tip position are the important variables. FYI Allison only finishes her stroke a couple inches past the CB (which is her natural finish), and she plays pretty well, drawing the CB table length effortlessly! As long as you're "finishing" your stroke the way we talked about (the boob shot) you will get the response you're looking for. More cuestick speed, but the same exact finish...grip issues need to be dealt with. As you know already, Randy, Jerry and myself have nothing but your best interest involved, no matter what traps some others try to post up.

Scott Lee
2019 PBIA Instructor of the Year
Director, SPF National Pool School Tour
Such a passive-aggressive drive-by hit on what I wrote about the importance of a good follow through in achieving good stroke timing. Leigh, use your common sense in making your decisions for yourself and skip the good intentions. As we used to say in New York City, good intentions and a token will get you on the subway. Nowadays we have to say 'MetroCard' but 'token' is more nostalgic. Experiment on your own! You'll do just fine.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Such a passive-aggressive drive-by hit on what I wrote about the importance of a good follow through in achieving good stroke timing. Leigh, use your common sense in making your decisions for yourself and skip the good intentions. As we used to say in New York City, good intentions and a token will get you on the subway. Nowadays we have to say 'MetroCard' but 'token' is more nostalgic. Experiment on your own! You'll do just fine.
How far do you have to follow through when you swipe a MetroCard?
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
How far do you have to follow through when you swipe a MetroCard?
Ha! Don't kid yourself. There's a technique there and because I don't take the subway as often as I used to, I usually have to swipe at least 2 or 3 times before I can pass through. I'm still working on my swipe fundamentals. :)
 

jokrswylde

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
instantly I'm reminded of a concept I learned in tennis that I think is generally useful,
the "good miss"
the definition is a little variable, but in your case I'm reminded of it in the sense that
yes, you ran the balls, but you didn't feel good about the way you executed it
to me, that's a sign that your game is growing, even if only in your mind
That is a good point. To me, it reminds me of when I used to play golf. I could be in the rough off the tee, maybe make a good shot out of the rough into a bunker, and hit a pretty good trap shot to get up and down for par...but that par never made me happy, it was the scrambling trying to get to the green that irritated me.

Too often I find myself running a couple balls with the shape I intended, and then a little out of line on the next shot, even more on the shot after that, and the next thing I know I am trying a long bank (Or worse) to get out. Even if I do get out, I feel like I was just banging balls around.

Leigh-

I started plying the 5 ball ghost about a year ago. I made a deal with myself that I wouldn't add a ball until I could beat the 5 ball ghost by a score of 10-5 in back-to back racks, all while calling the pocket each ball will be pocketed in before the first shot.

I think I got this drill from a Tor Lowry video. Anyway, a little over a year later, and thousands of games against the 5, 6, and 7 ball ghost, I have finally worked my way up to the 8 ball ghost. A big victory for me... as Patrick mentioned, it has NOT been as fast as I would have liked, and I have gotten so sick of playing the ghost that I have quit for weeks at a time and just focused on drills, or played 8 ball or worked on drills. Slow and steady. You will get there!
 
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