SJM Analyzes Matchroom’s New Game Plan

[jasonlaus]

No disagreement. But I am referencing the amount of money spent on the sport. Who comes close to those flat billed Hustlin hat wearers when it comes to buying cues, tables, gear,etc.?

Also, how many pool halls in Europe or Asia hold weekend tourneys where a guy can bring home 20k on a random Saturday? Heck, between Birmingham, Huntsville, New Orleans, and Meridian, I read about 10k calcuttas for winners of monthly in house tourneys...sometimes even more.

That's all I am saying. There is a huge amount of money flowing through pool at the local level

Problem is, all that money is coming from the players, MR money will eventually be coming from outside the players pockets. Also, those events will have a few elite players but nothing like what MR is trying to do - it's the difference between High school sports and PRO

 

[The_JV]

9 ball tends to require more cue ball movement to larger position zones. 8 ball tends to require more cue ball precision to smaller position zones. One of them is not really "easier" than the other.

It's just not smaller position zones. The part that's missing is the amount of potential obstacles in 8 ball, and how incredibly easier it is to play safe in 9 ball. The likelyhood of clusters in 8 ball....

Frankly the comparison is fairly lopsided to 8 ball. People just get hung up on the "options" and potentially shorter shots that are common in 8 ball

 

[iusedtoberich]

8 ball is the worst game ever made. The bangers only play it because it’s all they ever heard of. As soon as a banger transitions to a D player, he typically wants zero to do with 8 ball. I’ve never met a player since I picked up a cue in the early 90’s that wanted to play 8 ball.

 

[JusticeNJ]

One thing I like about what Matchroom is doing is reaching out and working with other promoters of top events. In the past it's been my way or the highway approach but now there is a sense of working together. Eventually being a professional will be well defined and something that players will want to pursue.

Yes, this is great. I know there's been some scheduling issues in the past, but they seem to be taking a "big tent" approach rather than trying to squeeze everyone out.

 

[Fatboy]

8 ball is the worst game ever made. The bangers only play it because it’s all they ever heard of. As soon as a banger transitions to a D player, he typically wants zero to do with 8 ball. I’ve never met a player since I picked up a cue in the early 90’s that wanted to play 8 ball.

Take what you make on the break for $1000/rack is good fun. Not lame ass APA rules. I’ve played lots of 8B for lots more than that. In Germany they play plenty of 8B as well-guys who play super strong. Solid A+ players.

 

[Chili Palmer]

9 ball tends to require more cue ball movement to larger position zones. 8 ball tends to require more cue ball precision to smaller position zones. One of them is not really "easier" than the other.

I've always thought of 8B as a shot selection game and 9B as a shot execution game.

Bangers (and people who can't control whitey) can sometimes play 8B well because of all the possible options but put some of them in a 9B game and they can't run 3 balls.

 

[westcoast]

8 ball is the worst game ever made. The bangers only play it because it’s all they ever heard of. As soon as a banger transitions to a D player, he typically wants zero to do with 8 ball. I’ve never met a player since I picked up a cue in the early 90’s that wanted to play 8 ball.

I disagree. I think 10 ball is the best game for pros, but I like watching them play 8 ball particularly on bar tables- it is fun to see how they break out trouble spots

 

[vjmehra]

8 ball at high levels is not comparable to league play. Done in totally different manner.

I don't need to be right but I don't agree. In my personal opinion of how players manture. Potting comes first, loose position comes second, precise CB control third, correct pattern play last. The first two are what's required for 9 ball. The last two are required for high level 8 ball.

Correct pattern play is also required for 9-Ball.

Top players map out the way they intend to go through the balls, whilst the optionality of which ball to pot isn't there, there are options on how to play each shot.

As you say, its personal opinion, but I do struggle to see how anyone could suggest 8-Ball involves more cue ball skill. You can argue it is harder to beat an evenly matched player (subjective of course), but fundamentally surely cue ball control is more important in 9-Ball and therefore more skill is required (purely relating to cue ball control here, ignoring other aspects).

 

[iusedtoberich]

I’m glad 9 ball is coming back. I WANT luck in the game. I WANT to see racks run. I WANT to see players come from behind and run out the set. All that makes pool better ti watch.

The soft break I think is taken way out of Context. Yeah Corey is good at it. But Archer beat the crap out of him breaking a million miles a hr in their 30k match. Same thing Mills vs Shane.

The soft break will always be around, and there is nothing wrong with it. Because the hard break gets better results and we as fans can see both.

 

[Chili Palmer]

I’m glad 9 ball is coming back. I WANT luck in the game. I WANT to see racks run. I WANT to see players come from behind and run out the set. All that makes pool better ti watch.

The soft break I think is taken way out of Context. Yeah Corey is good at it. But Archer beat the crap out of him breaking a million miles a hr in their 30k match. Same thing Mills vs Shane.

The soft break will always be around, and there is nothing wrong with it. Because the hard break gets better results and we as fans can see both.

I'm a big fan of 9B also. I like the fast and loose nature of it.

 

[jokrswylde]

Problem is, all that money is coming from the players, MR money will eventually be coming from outside the players pockets. Also, those events will have a few elite players but nothing like what MR is trying to do - it's the difference between High school sports and PRO

Yes, that is the exciting possibility, Sponsor money where even laying an egg and finishing dead last in a tourney might still cover expenses with some profit to boot. While I would never expect pool to compete with the big 3 here, or say soccer overseas, being able to earn a comfortable living without being in the world top 10 might entice some of our younger athletes to give pool a chance...

 

[skogstokig]

seen enough elite 8-ball on euro soil that i write it off as too easy for the pro's. darren tried to toughen it up with tight tables, break from the side rules, take what you make, etc but in the end it was plenty easy for ruslan and kaci in the WPS.

10-ball i like a lot better than 9-ball. but MR seems to think 9-ball has a better chance, that it's easier to follow, and they might be right. i've learned not to over-estimate the cognitive capabilities of the average tv sports fan.

 

[jokrswylde]

8 ball is the worst game ever made. The bangers only play it because it’s all they ever heard of. As soon as a banger transitions to a D player, he typically wants zero to do with 8 ball. I’ve never met a player since I picked up a cue in the early 90’s that wanted to play 8 ball.

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

Well I don't know what letter I am as a player (surely I am at least in the front half of the alphabet by now), but 8 Ball is more fun to me. I like the strategy of choosing between multiple patterns/choices. Drives me nuts when my 9 ball opponent "get's 'em rollin'" and slops the 9 in.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Do you guys remember I think the year was 2015 Efren and Mika had an exhibition 9 ball match before the US Open? Efren shit in the 9 ball to win the set. And he was even waving it with his hands to fall. That’s exciting pool. That’s something that gets remembered and talked about.

Call shot 10 ball ruined pool!

 

[Bob Jewett]

There is the branding issue for Matchroom. The only pool game they have presented for over 25 years is nine ball.

"8 ball" means something entirely different in many countries. Reds and yellows. On a small table. It's a broken brand.

Remember the IPT playing eight ball? "Slow" cloth to make things harder. It didn't. In one finals or semifinals (I think Manalo was playing), the match ended 13-12 and in 25 racks there was only one rack where the breaker got a second turn. Either the breaker ran out from the break or the opponent did from his first shot in 24 of 25 racks.

As for 10 ball.... There is also the branding issue. As long as Matchroom can keep the problems with the break at nine ball under control, a switch is very unlikely.

 

[vjmehra]

Don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel!

Well I don't know what letter I am as a player (surely I am at least in the front half of the alphabet by now), but 8 Ball is more fun to me. I like the strategy of choosing between multiple patterns/choices. Drives me nuts when my 9 ball opponent "get's 'em rollin'" and slops the 9 in.

The slop is good for tv...also the fast and slightly random (at least in short races) nature of 9-Ball is the perfect contrast to snooker, which has to be taken into consideration as Matchroom of course don't want to simply take viewers from one product and move them to another, they want them ideally to view both, so the new offering has to offer something different.

 

[The_JV]

Correct pattern play is also required for 9-Ball.

Required...? I'd say no. Benefit...?..., definitely. A strong potter will shoot his way out of mis-steps in 9 ball. That option isn't as readily available on a congested 8 ball table.

Top players map out the way they intend to go through the balls, whilst the optionality of which ball to pot isn't there, there are options on how to play each shot.

As you say, its personal opinion, but I do struggle to see how anyone could suggest 8-Ball involves more cue ball skill. You can argue it is harder to beat an evenly matched player (subjective of course), but fundamentally surely cue ball control is more important in 9-Ball and therefore more skill is required (purely relating to cue ball control here, ignoring other aspects).

Would you say that 9 ball requires more CB skill then say 14.1...? In 14.1 you can literally shoot any ball on the table, but yet most runs die because the player got out of line and ended up stupid on his break ball. There's a game where the bail out options are as great as balls on the table yet is still renowned for fine CB control.

Nearly all discussions on this matter fall on to personal bais. I play more rotation than anything else. 14.1 second and 8 ball only in league. The top league players (and there's a significant jump from rest to the best) all have extreme CB control and all see 8 ball as the tougher game.

If it matters. Maybe I should add that I'm speaking only in terms of the games on a 9ft table.

 

[BasementDweller]

So do you think it easier to run a rack of 9 ball or 8ball? I am a banger, but have ran quite a few more racks of 9ball in vastly fewer attempts than I have in 8ball. Don't really see the pros posting too many 8 ball ghost matches. I know they are different games, but I wonder what the BnR stats are for similar equipment/ tourneys..

Pros run out 8 ball racks more I would guess. I suppose they are both still break dependent, but with 8 ball at the higher levels you just never see ANY safety play. EVER! Shots are also almost always of the boring variety....stop shot....stop shot....with the very rare Chris Melling runout thrown in. I don't mind seeing 8 ball once in a great while but it's really just not a great test for the best players on the big table.

Even at my level, I recently played one of my State's better players some bar table 8 ball in preparation for a big event he was playing in. We played 4 races to 7 with a little something at stake. After the end of the 4 sets -- I realized that neither of us played a single safety and he didn't miss a single open ball he shot at. He screwed up a few racks and missed a couple banks and was left without a reasonable shot a few times. So even the bar table game is exaggerated about quite a bit when it comes to really good players.

I do think the pattern play is interesting, but even there -- great players can outrun some less then ideal pattern play -- just watch Earl play 14.1 and you'll see what I'm getting at.

So 8 ball is just doomed on American style tables. If you make the pockets tighter, or the tables slower all it does is slow the game down so players pay closer attention to their cue ball. There becomes less cue ball movement and the shots get EVEN easier, and visually the game gets way less interesting but the players still get out.

No doubt Matchroom is getting this part right.

 

[Badpenguin]

I actually enjoyed watching Bonus Ball, but maybe I'm the only one

 

[buckshotshoey]

Pros run out 8 ball racks more I would guess. I suppose they are both still break dependent, but with 8 ball at the higher levels you just never see ANY safety play. EVER! Shots are also almost always of the boring variety....stop shot....stop shot....with the very rare Chris Melling runout thrown in. I don't mind seeing 8 ball once in a great while but it's really just not a great test for the best players on the big table.

Even at my level, I recently played one of my State's better players some bar table 8 ball in preparation for a big event he was playing in. We played 4 races to 7 with a little something at stake. After the end of the 4 sets -- I realized that neither of us played a single safety and he didn't miss a single open ball he shot at. He screwed up a few racks and missed a couple banks and was left without a reasonable shot a few times. So even the bar table game is exaggerated about quite a bit when it comes to really good players.

I do think the pattern play is interesting, but even there -- great players can outrun some less then ideal pattern play -- just watch Earl play 14.1 and you'll see what I'm getting at.

So 8 ball is just doomed on American style tables. If you make the pockets tighter, or the tables slower all it does is slow the game down so players pay closer attention to their cue ball. There becomes less cue ball movement and the shots get EVEN easier, and visually the game gets way less interesting but the players still get out.

No doubt Matchroom is getting this part right.

I tend to disagree. I've watched many USBTC matches. There is plenty of strategy and skill going on.