Same here. I was telling my buddies we should go one year. After getting some intel, they can have it!
SJM at the 2023 Derby City Catastrophe
- Thread starter sjm
- Start date
This was my first year going... Arrived Tuesday and left Friday afternoon, so I missed much of the shitshow. Got to see some great 1pocket matches and some great 9ball matches.
That being said... the venue is a fucking disaster. When you first walk in the casino, you get one of those quick takes like "Wow, this place is pretty nice"... then after being there for just one day, you start to see the cracks in the finish...
Stu is right, the food at the casino is fucking terrible. The only time the grill was remotely good was at breakfast. The other problem with this, it's roughly a 20 minute drive to the next closest area that has some food offerings... so you can be a bit stuck, as there isn't a fucking thing around the place.
As far as the casino gambling goes... it's tight. Very tight. High min bets and low max bets. Really hard to come out ahead there if you are not willing to drop a few thousand and spend a shit ton of time there...
The room was dog shit and the beds sagged in the middle. If you set the shower to hot, it would partially stay hot, but flutuate between cold and really fucking hot to the point where you either had to constantly adjust or step out of the water because it's to hot.
I've been hitting other pool events for 20 years like the Open and the Expo, Derby was never really on my radar until a good opportunity to go as a spectator presented itself this year so I flew in. Overall, I enjoyed myself, but like I said earlier, I was not there for the final days and the shitshow that Stu described but based on what I did see in my short time there, I do not doubt any of his assessment. I did see Stu roaming around and just didnt get a chance to say Hi.
With all this being said, will this be my first and last derby? No. I will definitely go back, but there is no way in hell I'm going to make this an every year event. There is a lot of frustration with the venue and location that you need to be prepared for.
One last thing. Go to Steak and Bourbon while you are there. Incredible steak and some good bourbon offerings. I think next time I might hit a distillery or 2 while in the area.
That being said... the venue is a fucking disaster. When you first walk in the casino, you get one of those quick takes like "Wow, this place is pretty nice"... then after being there for just one day, you start to see the cracks in the finish...
Stu is right, the food at the casino is fucking terrible. The only time the grill was remotely good was at breakfast. The other problem with this, it's roughly a 20 minute drive to the next closest area that has some food offerings... so you can be a bit stuck, as there isn't a fucking thing around the place.
As far as the casino gambling goes... it's tight. Very tight. High min bets and low max bets. Really hard to come out ahead there if you are not willing to drop a few thousand and spend a shit ton of time there...
The room was dog shit and the beds sagged in the middle. If you set the shower to hot, it would partially stay hot, but flutuate between cold and really fucking hot to the point where you either had to constantly adjust or step out of the water because it's to hot.
I've been hitting other pool events for 20 years like the Open and the Expo, Derby was never really on my radar until a good opportunity to go as a spectator presented itself this year so I flew in. Overall, I enjoyed myself, but like I said earlier, I was not there for the final days and the shitshow that Stu described but based on what I did see in my short time there, I do not doubt any of his assessment. I did see Stu roaming around and just didnt get a chance to say Hi.
With all this being said, will this be my first and last derby? No. I will definitely go back, but there is no way in hell I'm going to make this an every year event. There is a lot of frustration with the venue and location that you need to be prepared for.
One last thing. Go to Steak and Bourbon while you are there. Incredible steak and some good bourbon offerings. I think next time I might hit a distillery or 2 while in the area.
middleofnowhere
Registered
That sounds a little sour grapes to me. It's most certainly a great event but just needs to be run better. But anyone who's never been there, they have in fact missed something.
As a fan you really have no control over how the event is run, but the truth is, when all is said and done and you're home, you're glad you didn't miss it.
The criticisms you're hearing are for the most part from almost professional tournament watchers who come from a different perspective. The average person who goes there may just go there for a day or so. They get to see many of the great players they only get a chance to read about or see on a YouTube video in person, up close and that's quite an experience for a fan.
I think the primary problem is, it's supposed to be a great experience for the players as well and that sounds like what they're talking about. It sounds like there's a Cascade of problems. One problem creates another problem creates another problem and so on. It sounds like this is starting with how long the matches are taking. This affects the scheduling.
As the problems begin to add up then the human factor comes in, the inability to solve or correct the problems, or unwillingness. From the outside looking in from what they describe these problems are not unpredictable and should probably have already been dealt with after all these years. There are no longer any surprises.
I think to those in the back room counting the proceeds probably don't really see a problem. It doesn't become a problem to them till they start losing money.
On the tight pockets:
Is it just me or did I not only see more missed balls, but more hung up balls? That's seems like a downside of Diamond's deep shelves, where not only do you get punished for a miss but your opponent gets rewarded with a hung up ball. I suppose that's the beauty of the snooker style pocket, or maybe the game is best played with tight pockets with shorter shelves.
Is it just me or did I not only see more missed balls, but more hung up balls? That's seems like a downside of Diamond's deep shelves, where not only do you get punished for a miss but your opponent gets rewarded with a hung up ball. I suppose that's the beauty of the snooker style pocket, or maybe the game is best played with tight pockets with shorter shelves.
I suppose that if this event where being run by the casino I could understand -- but it is a Diamond event.
Regardless, the fact of the matter is that players and spectators consistently show up, spend money, and suffer it all as best they can. Until that changes we can all gripe as much as we want and the Derby will go on as is. So having said that here are the problems:
The property. It was never great but after they built out the casino floor and pretty much left nothing of the restaurants but a shopping mall food court, whatever charm (and food) it had was finito. There's no room to sit and relax and the little concession stand that would be at the entrance to the main tournament room is gone. The rooms are what they are with noise and temperature issues. At least we get a group rate.
The number of players. Sure, they capped the entries this year but at such an absurdly high number the cap was pretty much immaterial. Couple that with...
The number of tables. A couple of years ago they started using the upstairs action room for tournament matches. Using those half dozen or so tables was a smart move but for whatever reason (I understand some of the gamblers made a stink) they stopped doing that this year so those tables were lost for tournament play. Bad move.
I think the size of the pockets was an experiment. Some folks will always think smaller is better but the truth is the vast majority of players don't play on tables with itty-bitty pockets and don't know how to adjust. And IMO, saying you'll keep the small pockets for the TV table when the whole event is being played on 4.5" pockets is a bad call. Players should be able to go from the main floor of the event onto the streaming table and play on the same equipment.
So that's it. I've probably been to over 20 DCCs. I left this one thinking I might not return. The only thing it has going on for it, for me, is that it's less than a gas tank away and held in January when there's not much else going on. I don't want to say the event is just a money grab but unless they change things it sure looks that way.
Lou Figueroa
Regardless, the fact of the matter is that players and spectators consistently show up, spend money, and suffer it all as best they can. Until that changes we can all gripe as much as we want and the Derby will go on as is. So having said that here are the problems:
The property. It was never great but after they built out the casino floor and pretty much left nothing of the restaurants but a shopping mall food court, whatever charm (and food) it had was finito. There's no room to sit and relax and the little concession stand that would be at the entrance to the main tournament room is gone. The rooms are what they are with noise and temperature issues. At least we get a group rate.
The number of players. Sure, they capped the entries this year but at such an absurdly high number the cap was pretty much immaterial. Couple that with...
The number of tables. A couple of years ago they started using the upstairs action room for tournament matches. Using those half dozen or so tables was a smart move but for whatever reason (I understand some of the gamblers made a stink) they stopped doing that this year so those tables were lost for tournament play. Bad move.
I think the size of the pockets was an experiment. Some folks will always think smaller is better but the truth is the vast majority of players don't play on tables with itty-bitty pockets and don't know how to adjust. And IMO, saying you'll keep the small pockets for the TV table when the whole event is being played on 4.5" pockets is a bad call. Players should be able to go from the main floor of the event onto the streaming table and play on the same equipment.
So that's it. I've probably been to over 20 DCCs. I left this one thinking I might not return. The only thing it has going on for it, for me, is that it's less than a gas tank away and held in January when there's not much else going on. I don't want to say the event is just a money grab but unless they change things it sure looks that way.
Lou Figueroa
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Thanks. I don’t think I picked up on one positive review. People should be discouraged from participating and attending to have the venue moved to a better location. Another example of why the sport suffers from a bigger audience and television coverage.
The Showboat in AC is no longer a casino, should be more than enough room tables considering all the gambling machines/tables are gone. Only a few places(maybe 2) for food, but it's connected to the Hard Rock next door, maybe a minute or 2 walk indoors
Badpenguin
Well-known member
The stream viewer experience was comparable. The stream was complete garbage for the first few days, possibly due to the use of wifi instead of a hardwired connection to key equipment. No commentary for the semis and finals, but that may have been a positive, depending on who you ask. Thankfully someone did keep the score updated at least. No apologies were offered, no discounts. They just raked in the profits from a captive audience. A shame really, because the production quality is so high, it is just whoever is handling the technical end of the streaming that dropped a ball. That is the last time I am falling for this particular sham.
The bigfoot is a complete waste of time. Over 2000 matches were played, the stream subscriber got to watch 35-40 of them. I really wanted to see some of the banks, wanted to see some players like Raga. Got to see mostly 10 ball on the bigfoot, which is not even a part of the actual tournament. The finals were a joke. This is not the first time it boiled down to two completely exhausted players, I believe it happened at either the US Open or International Open as well - Filler was so exhausted he played like an APA 6 speed. It is extremely disappointing as a fan to see players work so hard to a finals with players who have been playing 20 hours plus. That kind of pool is for meth heads and adderall junkies, I have no interest in watching it. At some point it has to become unacceptable to exploit professional pool players, and their fans, in this way.
The bigfoot is a complete waste of time. Over 2000 matches were played, the stream subscriber got to watch 35-40 of them. I really wanted to see some of the banks, wanted to see some players like Raga. Got to see mostly 10 ball on the bigfoot, which is not even a part of the actual tournament. The finals were a joke. This is not the first time it boiled down to two completely exhausted players, I believe it happened at either the US Open or International Open as well - Filler was so exhausted he played like an APA 6 speed. It is extremely disappointing as a fan to see players work so hard to a finals with players who have been playing 20 hours plus. That kind of pool is for meth heads and adderall junkies, I have no interest in watching it. At some point it has to become unacceptable to exploit professional pool players, and their fans, in this way.
I think the tight pockets definitely played a part in lengthening the matches. Certainly, it did in one pocket. Suppose two moderately skilled players but evenly matched players drew each other--not an uncommon occurrence--when the games get down to very few balls on the table, and the primary way to score is a long rail bank or multiple rail bank, tightening pockets really slows down people.
kollegedave
There is no charge for parking. The food is definitely overpriced, and some items were disappointing, but there was acceptable quality food there.
The scheduling in the final days sounds like it was a nightmare. But the other negative aspects are being a bit overblown.
Not the first time everybody has said the food is shit there. If you're used to, or think McDonalds is good, then I guess almost anything else is good
i don't get this. smaller audiences and no streaming would be better? if so, how?
Most of the europeans and taiwanese players did not show up
The Derby was on my wish list to see, NOT anymore. Look at the Chonan vs Garcia match played at 2 am - the guys were just out of it and I felt for them. Look at the finals, Shane missed shots he would have made with eyes closed under normal circumstances! Really makes you appreciate what Efren did at 68! I think the pros need to leave the tournament to the amateurs if that what it's meant for. Forget about the commercialism of the banners and the need to get one. Having to grind 15 rounds with lack of sleep for $16,000 and a banner is not worth it to me. When asked how he felt after winning the 9 ball tournament the first thing Fedor said was TIRED 
Do they not have DoorDash in Indiana? Cool little app on my phone...For about 8 bucks more, I can have pretty much anything from steak to chinese in a 30 mile radius delivered to my outstretched hand...Does the casino not allow that?
This was because of its dates so close to the WC's. Based on the last few yrs. its pretty obvious that D'mond wants it to remain a big "regional event feel" gambling carnival with a smattering of top pros tossed in. The whole thing has a 'bush league' feel to it. As Bob J. stated they probably get a good deal on the venue due to the mid-winter date. Plus its in Diamond's back yard so i don't see it moving soon.
Good point. Hell, if some folks set-up their food trucks out in the parking lot they'd make a fkng killing.
Biloxi Boy
Man With A Golden Arm
You think the casino would allow food trucks? Only if Diamond forced it during negotiations.
The Derby was on my wish list to see, NOT anymore. Look at the Chonan vs Garcia match played at 2 am - the guys were just out of it and I felt for them. Look at the finals, Shane missed shots he would have made with eyes closed under normal circumstances! Really makes you appreciate what Efren did at 68! I think the pros need to leave the tournament to the amateurs if that what it's meant for. Forget about the commercialism of the banners and the need to get one. Having to grind 15 rounds with lack of sleep for $16,000 and a banner is not worth it to me. When asked how he felt after winning the 9 ball tournament the first thing Fedor said was TIRED
he was knackered, and bleeding too. but this was probably worth it more for fedor than for the others who can go outside of US and compete. he can't do that, so needs to make ends in US.
Yep. Folks the pro pool landscape is changing fast and mostly for the better. For this event to remain relevant with top players this yrs shitshow can't go on. It needs a top-to-bottom refresh in all areas. I also agree 100% with those that brought up the tight pockets. Fine if you have nothing but 700+Fargo pros but most of the field (aka the dead$ that fund the event) don't play on them on a regular basis.The Derby was on my wish list to see, NOT anymore. Look at the Chonan vs Garcia match played at 2 am - the guys were just out of it and I felt for them. Look at the finals, Shane missed shots he would have made with eyes closed under normal circumstances! Really makes you appreciate what Efren did at 68! I think the pros need to leave the tournament to the amateurs if that what it's meant for. Forget about the commercialism of the banners and the need to get one. Having to grind 15 rounds with lack of sleep for $16,000 and a banner is not worth it to me. When asked how he felt after winning the 9 ball tournament the first thing Fedor said was TIRED