SJM at the 2023 Derby City Catastrophe

[rossaroni]

Good point. Hell, if some folks set-up their food trucks out in the parking lot they'd make a fkng killing.

For about 14 minutes until casino security would stop them.

I am guessing that perhaps you could get Door Dash, but just do not let the casino know. Same reason many casino/hotels do not allow you to bring outside alcohol in….they want you to buy it from them.

 

[SBC]

i use to want to go to the derby ..... but really doesnt seem like much to miss to me

Just pack plenty of rations, bring rations, comfortable shoes with extra socks and lots of cash.

Derby is a grind. It's also the greatest show in pool. A must attend.

I went in 2012, slept in my car 5 days.
I went in 2014, took my buddy and his friend to the steakhouse....I slept on the floor in a bird nest of blankets 5 days.

They had grilled oysters back then at the buffet....I could have lived on those alone.

 

[BasementDweller]

...That kind of pool is for meth heads and adderall junkies, I have no interest in watching it. At some point it has to become unacceptable to exploit professional pool players, and their fans, in this way.

That's actually one positive takeaway from this tourney for me. It is often times assumed that all these marathon matches are between players that are getting some "assistance", but anyone that watched Fedor play, can now see what is humanly possible. Yes -- it's possible to push yourself to the absolute limit, still play phenomenal world-class pool, and do it clean!

Most of us already knew this, but maybe we don't get to see it quite at this level.

 

[SBC]

T

Do they not have DoorDash in Indiana? Cool little app on my phone...For about 8 bucks more, I can have pretty much anything from steak to chinese in a 30 mile radius delivered to my outstretched hand...Does the casino not allow that

Casino is on other side of river....20 miles from anything significant.

 

[KAP1976]

I think the size of the pockets was an experiment. Some folks will always think smaller is better but the truth is the vast majority of players don't play on tables with itty-bitty pockets and don't know how to adjust. And IMO, saying you'll keep the small pockets for the TV table when the whole event is being played on 4.5" pockets is a bad call. Players should be able to go from the main floor of the event onto the streaming table and play on the same equipment.



Lou Figueroa

100-percent this. The whole reason Greg started Diamond was to have a standard table that was uniform at all tournaments for all players. If you have players qualifying on outside tables that have pockets that are X-size and then moving to a main table that is Y-size, you're not doing that.

 

[briankenobi]

I was at Day 1 and days 8 and 9 of this event and this was my 18th derby I have attended. Here are a couple thoughts:

First off, Thank you Stu for letting me be your guest and sit front row for the bank pool ring game. Its my favorite part of Derby and happy a fellow Ohio guy won it. I enjoyed the conversation and your perspective.

Tightening the tables was a bad call and definitely extended matches.

This was the 1st time ever that the one pocket finished on Saturday. Normally it finishes Thursday night with a few years it finishing on Friday. The one pocket always backs things up.

The food is subjective. For some, it wasn't good. For others, it was ok. I thought it was ok but my tastes are different than others. It isn't cheap but its a casino. That is to be expected. You can bring food into the "non casino area." So you can bring food to your hotel room and the vendors had their own food too.

Gorst is a machine. Won all three main events in 2 two years when it took Alex like 10 plus years to do.

I know people said the event should change venues. It won't. Its close to diamond so the it doesn't cost as much to move the tables. The other reason is money. From what I have heard, Diamond receives a portion of the casino money for the 9 days they are there. IF that is accurate, what other non casino venue is doing to pay diamond to be there? If they want the high fields to continue they need more tables.

I agree with Lou that they could have used the action room tables during the day for matches and have them open for gambling at night.

With so many issues this year, Diamond really needs to address how they can keep this from happening again. Another event like this would potentially lead to lower fields and less revenue generated.

 

[iusedtoberich]

SJM, I’d like to know when you came up with the title of this thread

 

[decent dennis]

I was at Day 1 and days 8 and 9 of this event and this was my 18th derby I have attended. Here are a couple thoughts:

First off, Thank you Stu for letting me be your guest and sit front row for the bank pool ring game. Its my favorite part of Derby and happy a fellow Ohio guy won it. I enjoyed the conversation and your perspective.

Tightening the tables was a bad call and definitely extended matches.

This was the 1st time ever that the one pocket finished on Saturday. Normally it finishes Thursday night with a few years it finishing on Friday. The one pocket always backs things up.

The food is subjective. For some, it wasn't good. For others, it was ok. I thought it was ok but my tastes are different than others. It isn't cheap but its a casino. That is to be expected. You can bring food into the "non casino area." So you can bring food to your hotel room and the vendors had their own food too.

Gorst is a machine. Won all three main events in 2 two years when it took Alex like 10 plus years to do.

I know people said the event should change venues. It won't. Its close to diamond so the it doesn't cost as much to move the tables. The other reason is money. From what I have heard, Diamond receives a portion of the casino money for the 9 days they are there. IF that is accurate, what other non casino venue is doing to pay diamond to be there? If they want the high fields to continue they need more tables.

I agree with Lou that they could have used the action room tables during the day for matches and have them open for gambling at night.

With so many issues this year, Diamond really needs to address how they can keep this from happening again. Another event like this would potentially lead to lower fields and less revenue generated.

In my opinion it doesn’t matter how many tables they had. On Thursday we went upstairs and after a match ended hit balls for at least an hour before two guys who were playing downstairs got sent up.
This was around noon and they didn’t have another match scheduled until 3 or 3:30. Then the same thing happened on the next table.

 

[joninnorfolk]

Good point. Hell, if some folks set-up their food trucks out in the parking lot they'd make a fkng killing.

I had the same thought about food trucks while reading this thread.

 

[skip100]

Obviously Caesars wouldn't let a food truck in the parking lot but you'd think there's somewhere nearby where some enterprising taco or burger truck owner could park for a few days and make $$$$$.

 

[garczar]

I had the same thought about food trucks while reading this thread.

Great minds think alike i guess. I was just joking but its really a great idea. I know the hotel would never go for it but its very do-able at non-hotel tournaments. Make a deal with the truck owner and let him park outside the poolroom. Place i used to play at had a good monthly event and they had a local BBQ guy set up there. Food was great, fair priced. Place didn't have a grill/kitchen so it was the nuts for them. No mess no clean up.

 

[garczar]

Obviously Caesars wouldn't let a food truck in the parking lot but you'd think there's somewhere nearby where some enterprising taco or burger truck owner could park for a few days and make $$$$$.

Set up a couple blocks away and have a drone fly it in.

 

[ShootingArts]

Unfortunately while it is easy to say move the Derby it may be extremely hard to do. Most long term contracts have carrots and sticks wrote into them. Incentives for staying, very possibly harsh penalties for leaving. Finding another place to drop in probably a two week or longer event when you add in set up and tear down as well as moving in and out isn't easy either. While Diamond may be working behind the scenes to find a new location it may be practically impossible until their current contract expires.

The brutal truth is that they need more tables or less competitors for starters. The last I knew they had it set up so that it was cheaper to be a competitor than a spectator trying to get all comers to compete in something. I think until other problems are solved this concept needs to be shelved, not buried forever, but a stopgate measure.

If at all possible I think some shuttles to nearby food options need to be added. A hour and a half or two hours away from the Derby to eat a decent meal at a decent price including travel time would be doable even if not a great option. Clearly people have to eat while at an event and cooking in rooms shouldn't be a necessity. Food has to be improved before next year. Diamond and the casino are going to have to hammer out something or there will be real losses of attendance.

I think as many tables as possible coupled with looser pockets are a must too. I have never been on the whole tight pocket bandwagon. At my peak, I practiced on wickedly tight snooker tables set up for golf. I burned them up as a fanatic playing on them 15-25 hours a week and several times that on pool tables. None of the people I knew could deal with those snooker tables, they weren't obsessed!

That brings up something that should be acknowledged, nothing is going to equalize the typical amateur and typical pro. I do think that looser pockets will help a little. Playing on tight pockets has became an ego trip for most. Size of pockets isn't going to vastly effect winners and losers when all play on the same tables. Adding a quarter inch to all pockets will definitely speed up things a bit.

I think it is time for Diamond to sit down with attendees both live and on an internet forum or at least on the internet, and hear what they have to say. Then I think Diamond is going to have to make some radical adjustments. The tweaks might be smaller than I think, regardless, people shouldn't burn up all of their vacation time, a considerable lump of cash for most, and come home with a bad taste in their mouths.

I remember many wild and crazy gambling stories from past derbies. I haven't read one yet this year. It has always been a wild marathon for those that tried to see the action and events, now it seems to be a marathon just to try to survive the events.

Age has something to do with it but the current Derby doesn't have any appeal for me. I think that the ages of pool players are polarizing with the very young and the old playing and the once core middle aged players in their thirties to fifties disappearing. The young can't afford the Derby and have lives to live, the old are getting burnt out with the headaches.

Hu

 

[garczar]

Its funny that the event that Derby is based on took place in these two buildings in JohnstonCity,Illinois. https://www.google.com/maps/place/J...05dd0dd19e8e87!8m2!3d37.8206052!4d-88.9275695 By today's measuring it was a tiny event designed for/by gamblers to decide who was the best gunslinger. And yet we still talk about it and its champions.

 

[Chicagoplayer]

I vote for a total change of venue. The Horseshoe just had a massive renovation due to the move from the boat to land. They could have added more convention space ( = more tables) then, but they are not a convention venue. They will never have more space. They could have done better for the restaurants during the change, but they chose not to.

I think the problem is financial. Any other location is likely to cost more, for both the players and Diamond. The prices currently are tolerable but it's still over $1000 for the room. I think Diamond gets a lot of favors for filling up the hotel in the middle of winter.

I imagine that Harrah's in Atlantic City would be interested, but that has its own problems. One is that it's not the heart of bank pool country.

If the top players stopped showing up, maybe Diamond would take notice, but they keep showing up.

Hi Bob,

Part of the issue is time.

They have 8 days with which to conduct 3 large scale, overlapping events.(Not counting minis)
The completion of this Derby should now open their eyes to their time constraints and their need to cap the 9 ball entries.

Financially, Derby has become a solid money maker at this venue.

Derby is a Matchroom points event.
The top players will show up for points and prestige.
Players know that Derby is nuts. It’s a true test of mettle because of the crazy scheduling, & distractions. They play in Derby events because of these things, not in spite of it.

Bad Boys Billiard Promotions (TD’s) need a bigger team.
Pat might need another team member too.

I’m sure they will adjust outer table pocket size(bigger pockets) and instill a cap.
I’m unsure what other venues there are that are as large or as accommodating (I use the word loosely) in the Louisville area besides Caesar’s.
They get a 10 day captive audience of 1,500 ppl which is a boon for both.

About the food issues:
Those driving in, always bring coolers of food/water & keep provisions in the car on hand.

 

[ChrisSjoblom]

Great minds think alike i guess. I was just joking but its really a great idea. I know the hotel would never go for it but its very do-able at non-hotel tournaments. Make a deal with the truck owner and let him park outside the poolroom. Place i used to play at had a good monthly event and they had a local BBQ guy set up there. Food was great, fair priced. Place didn't have a grill/kitchen so it was the nuts for them. No mess no clean up.

We have a bar with a weekly tournament in my town, and they only have frozen pizza and some microwave snacks available in house. For the tournaments, though, they have started arranging for one of several local trucks to serve food from the parking lot. It has been really well received by the players, and is also a great opportunity for the operators of the trucks to showcase their food. It appears to have helped the tournament grow a bit as well. Pretty much a win-win-win situation all around.

 

[garczar]

We have a bar with a weekly tournament in my town, and they only have frozen pizza and some microwave snacks available in house. For the tournaments, though, they have started arranging for one of several local trucks to serve food from the parking lot. It has been really well received by the players, and is also a great opportunity for the operators of the trucks to showcase their food. It appears to have helped the tournament grow a bit as well. Pretty much a win-win-win situation all around.

Does the bar get any kickbacks from the truck owners? I would thing 5-7% would be more than fair.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... For the tournaments, though, they have started arranging for one of several local trucks to serve food from the parking lot. ...

I've been to four or five local two-day tournaments that had a special food option. Barbeque is favorite. Not happening for DCC, of course.

 

[garczar]

I've been to four or five local two-day tournaments that had a special food option. Barbeque is favorite. Not happening for DCC, of course.

A friend told me that the food he got off some Korean BBQ truck in SantaMonica was some of the best food he ever ate.

 

[ChrisSjoblom]

Does the bar get any kickbacks from the truck owners? I would thing 5-7% would be more than fair.

I can't say for sure, but knowing this particular bar owner, I don't think there are any fees or kickbacks from the truck operators. He makes his money from keeping his place busy, and he understands that keeping people happy is the key to high traffic.

There is room in the building to install a small kitchen, but not enough actual dining space to make it practical to hire a dedicated cook. He feels that if he required the bartenders to do short order cooking the response time for beer and liquor sales would suffer. So, the food trucks during the tournaments are his way of solving a problem without creating another one. He's mentioned that if the food trucks work out well for the tournaments he is open to having them there for other high traffic times as well.