SJM at the 2023 Derby City Catastrophe

[1pocket]

I think Greg Sullivan, as founder of Derby City Classic (DCC), has always wanted this to be the pool mecca of the year, and I know for a fact that he does want players of all caliber to attend. He offers free rooms and entry fees to some prod as an incentive in hopes he will have an abundance of cool pool peeps at the event for the fans.

Sullivan tried to grow the Derby City Classic in Tunica on summer and have a a summer DCC. but Bonus Ball came to the fore, and the pros, the very ones who had committed to Greg to attend Tunica, crawfished on their affirmation and elected to be in Vegas for the now-defunct Bonus Ball. In my opinion, it hurt Greg when this happened, the pros turning their back on him Yeah, yeah, I know. Before somebody says it, pro players are not employees and can go where they want as independent contractors, but some folks are loyal to those who are loyal to them. That's how it is in my industry.

The Executive West had its warts and flaws, but for the most part, it was ideal. I remember rocking chairs in our hotel room, nice and cozy. The restaurant wasn't to everyone's liking and most definitely garnered complaints by some, but I thought it was fine. When Executive West was updated and refurbished, Greg had to look elsewhere and found a casino in Indiana that agreed to take on this massive pool extravaganza.

By its very name, "Derby City Classic," with "Derby" referencing Kentucky Derby in Louisville, it has broken away from tradition in a way to have it in Indiana at this casino. Some have suggested Atlantic City, as Matchroom did with the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. Not sure about costs to do that, but moving hardware to A.C., far away from Greg Sullivan's home court, might not be cost effective, and I think it is preferable to have it close to Louisville to keep the "Derby City" theme going.

Pat Fleming found a hotel in Norfolk to handle the International Open, and Mike Zuglan's Turning Stone venue is a huge hit with everyone. Allen Hopkins had to make a switch from Valley Forge Conference Center in King of Prussia, PA to Station Oaks, PA. I wonder if Greg Sullivan will consider finding a new venue, unless he's locked into some multiyear contract with the casino, as Matchroom seems to be with Da-Zone.

As a footnote, Allen Hopkins and now Greg Sullivan get a lot of heat for not having larger payouts. My thought is they are supposed to make a profit off of their labor, and I feel it's none of my business how much money they make. If one does not like it, they can elect to not attend. But, as most will agree, the Derby City Classic, Super Billiards Expo, and all Joss Turning Stone events are a huge success, and best of all, they are all made in the USA. Keeping pool alive in USA is my hope always, as I watch Matchroom and its Nineball. tour steering pro pool destinations overseas, and the pros will follow like trained little pigs with dollar signs dancing in their heads in hopes to get the ultimate free ride on the Mosconi Cup train.

A few Derby City Classic memories from Executive West.

In the lobby of Executive West, Harry Platis's friend, Keith, Harry, John Mataya, the late Ronnie Allen, and the late Jimmy Reid.

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My first Derby City Classic in the tournament room with Keith.

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Derby City Classic, the land of opportunity.

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This was taken at the Derby City Classic at the casino, the OnePocket-dot-org Hall of Fame banquet.
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A barkfest at the Derby for action. That Shannon Daulton offering a game to anyone. Amar Kang was in the background yelling over and over, I'll play anyone in the room some 9-ball. It was a hoot. Keith ended playign Alex with the big cue ball on a bar box, and after a 2-hour barkfest, Keith lost and had 1 hour before his next match with Grady Mathews on the TV table. Keith lost that too. Ah, the memory of Derby City Classic and no sleep.
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Tap, tap!

Moving the Derby to an entirely different City would not just be an issue with the tables (that might be the least of it!). Look at how much of the nuts and bolts of the administration of the operation is done by local Diamond employees and local long time helpers. Moving a long distance, who is going to do all those jobs?? I think of people like Greg's daughter Julie and others, that have taken care of some of this "little" stuff for years! Where they are now, all that staff gets to go home at night (well, except Steve McDonald and the others who take the night shift ).

As for moving tables, Diamond has been doing that for years, to remote places like Turning Stone for example.

I wonder about the possibility of some kind of temporary building, placed in one of the parking lots, to house additional tables.

 

[straightline]

4.25 pockets weren't that big a deal to the champs so consider the struggling stragglers. They just want to appear like champs?

 

[Black-Balled]

Thanks for the recap. I don’t understand why they do not have it in a city and a property with more food and lodging choices for the attendees. The whole thing seems low rent to me and now all involved have to fade poor scheduling. They should cap the entries, eliminate most of the dead money and execute a better schedule. Watching Shane play in the 9B final was sad. He was clearly spent and stood no chance against a 22 year old. We all know it’s easier to fade all nighters in your early 20’s vs your late 30’s. The event organizers and sponsors should be ashamed of themselves.

The current venue has been under contract for a good while now and there have been statements that lead me to believe a long term agreement has been and remains in effect.

It isn't really fair to judge the 2023 situation without acknowledging commitments were made long ago and based on info available then, not now.

All that said...
Mo money, no problems.

 

[lfigueroa]

However, is that really true? I always heard that because of the TV lighting, that table plays warmer and drier than the other tables anyway -- more like new cloth (or newer cloth, anyway). Given the way those conditions tend to make a table play a little looser, I wonder if 4-1/4" on the TV table might actually play more like the equivalent of 4-1/2" out on the tournament floor.

I am with you if you are saying you prefer 4-1/2" as the standard though! Personally, I think that is a good size, even for One Pocket, to maintain a good mix between offense and defense. Fans like offense I believe, and TD's certainly do also lol.

A lot of people don't know that one year the Jansco's tightened the pockets for their big Johnston City tournament. There were zero 100 ball runs that year, and the very next year, they went back to the larger pockets.

Well, having played in the Accu-Stats Arena, and on CSI and TAR stream tables I suspect the thing about the lights is something of an urban myth —what really tightens things up are the cameras and spectators.

I just think smaller pockets on the streaming table throws an unfair curve ball to any player not a pro.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Black-Balled]

That Bigfoot tourney gets way too much attention and is product placement for Diamond.

Reality is it’s a sideshow at Derby

Credit where credit is due, man. I think it is a premier event.

The cream always rises to the top and the late rounds of the regular tournament are certainly chock full of good matches, but the bigfAtfoot field is pretty damn elite...and on relatively unfamiliar tables?

It's a title of note to win for the players, no doubt.

 

[Fatboy]

View attachment 685715
Credit where credit is due, man. I think it is a premier event.

The cream always rises to the top and the late rounds of the regular tournament are certainly chock full of good matches, but the bigfstfoot field is pretty damn elite...and on relatively unfamiliar tables?

It's a title of note to win for the players, no doubt.

It’s a great payday and for sure a great title to win.

 

[Dead Money]

The current venue has been under contract for a good while now and there have been statements that lead me to believe a long term agreement has been and remains in effect.

It isn't really fair to judge the 2023 situation without acknowledging commitments were made long ago and based on info available then, not now.

All that said...
Mo money, no problems.

Crazy talk!

The event is a long standing success with a few issues. It is so crowded there nobody goes anymore.

 

[1pocket]

Well, having played in the Accu-Stats Arena, and on CSI and TAR stream tables I suspect the thing about the lights is something of an urban myth —what really tightens things up are the cameras and spectators.

I just think smaller pockets on the streaming table throws an unfair curve ball to any player not a pro.

Lou Figueroa

...but the arena table is definitely geared to matches featuring pros, so why not keep it tighter? If the pros complained about that one being too tight, I would listen to their input FOR SURE -- but amateurs complaining they are too tight, not so much

Has anyone heard of any pros complaining that the TV table was too tight?

But out on the main tournament floor, for sure, I am all in favor of standard pockets 4-1/2" . I am definitely NOT a "tighter is better" advocate. However I do like the moving part of the game, and I think Pat Fleming and I would agree that a nice medium length One Pocket match is ideal. You get too big on that table, with that level of competition, and matches like this one would be too common

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1211994139424900

 

[1pocket]

Crazy talk!

The event is a long standing success with a few issues. It is so crowded there nobody goes anymore.

Best thing said in this entire thread!!

 

[lfigueroa]

...but the arena table is definitely geared to matches featuring pros, so why not keep it tighter? If the pros complained about that one being too tight, I would listen to their input FOR SURE -- but amateurs complaining they are too tight, not so much

Has anyone heard of any pros complaining that the TV table was too tight?

But out on the main tournament floor, for sure, I am all in favor of standard pockets 4-1/2" . I am definitely NOT a "tighter is better" advocate. However I do like the moving part of the game, and I think Pat Fleming and I would agree that a nice medium length One Pocket match is ideal. You get too big on that table, with that level of competition, and matches like this one would be too common

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1211994139424900

In what other sport do they change the specs like that?

Smaller holes for the final round of golf? Smaller hoops, nets, goal posts? Maybe change the lines for center court at Wimbledon?

Lou Figueroa

 

[buckshotshoey]

In what other sport do they change the specs like that?

Smaller holes for the final round of golf? Smaller hoops, nets, goal posts? Maybe change the lines for center court at Wimbledon?

Lou Figueroa

A good "standard" would be, on a 9 foot table, 5 in for amateurs, and 4 1/2 for pros. Keep it at that.

 

[justnum]

A good "standard" would be, on a 9 foot table, 5 in for amateurs, and 4 1/2 for pros. Keep it at that.

Should the requirement of tv table and all tables be the same? The variability is for speedy play. The template rack has done that.

Table conditions and race format is what Emily is finding success with.

Cheers its a great idea that needs fine tuning.

 

[iusedtoberich]

If Diamond is still watching this thread, one other suggestion I have is the BigFoot has too much coverage, and takes too many days. It hogs up all the livestream.

I'd recommend a second 10' table that is not televised. The event would be done in half the time. Then, there could be a better balance of showing all the disciplines on the live stream, which now favors the BigFoot by a very large margin.

There is no need IMO to show "every single match" of the BigFoot. In any tournament, viewers online and in-person care most when it gets close to the end. It won't detract from the event at all.

 

[garczar]

If Diamond is still watching this thread, one other suggestion I have is the BigFoot has too much coverage, and takes too many days. It hogs up all the livestream.

I'd recommend a second 10' table that is not televised. The event would be done in half the time. Then, there could be a better balance of showing all the disciplines on the live stream, which now favors the BigFoot by a very large margin.

There is no need IMO to show "every single match" of the BigFoot. In any tournament, viewers online and in-person care most when it gets close to the end. It won't detract from the event at all.

They also need to go back to having the bank ring-game on Fri. nite before the 9b starts. Get that out of the way.

 

[iusedtoberich]

They also need to go back to having the bank ring-game on Fri. nite before the 9b starts. Get that out of the way.

I meant to post this in the thread Greg started. Oh well I bet they stopped watching that thread anyway.

 

[Baby Huey]

I think there's more to the DCC problems then have been discussed. On opening day, friday, we were supposed to start play at 1 PM. That didn't happen........Why? I think match schedule data entry and computer program problems. Play started around 2:30..........1.5 hours lost right off the bat. On Saturday, several players names did not appear on the App so they couldn't figure when they would play. This happened to me and I went to the tournament desk three times to find out data entry problems were continuing? Wow more lost time. Running the mini tournaments may have also contributed to match play table availability. DCC staff want to rent those tables out ASAP each night as extra income. There were lots of delays at the tournament desk. I mean there just continued to be problems with players names not showing up on the scrolling APP and this caused a lot of consternation. It felt like no one was really in charge this time. Normally I'd see Greg Sullivan highly visible but to me he wasn't??? I've yet to hear who the Tournament Director was? I'm sure in name Greg is but he's not the hands on guy he was in the past??? As far as the food and other issues, it was poor. Greg should have insured that the competitors had reasonable access to food without waiting an hour. This would be to the casinos advantage. As far as the venue it's OK but it's easy to get to the casino from the airport but hard to get back. Uber doesn't come out for pickups and I had to start planning my ride back on monday for a thursday departure. Also they had no valet so I had to walk around the casing with my luggage after room check out as they had no place to store it........Come on. So, IMO planning by Diamond and the Casino for the event was poor this year.......and it showed.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I think there's more to the DCC problems then have been discussed. On opening day, friday, we were supposed to start play at 1 PM. That didn't happen........Why? I think match schedule data entry and computer program problems. Play started around 2:30..........1.5 hours lost right off the bat. On Saturday, several players names did not appear on the App so they couldn't figure when they would play. This happened to me and I went to the tournament desk three times to find out data entry problems were continuing? Wow more lost time. Running the mini tournaments may have also contributed to match play table availability. DCC staff want to rent those tables out ASAP each night as extra income. There were lots of delays at the tournament desk. I mean there just continued to be problems with players names not showing up on the scrolling APP and this caused a lot of consternation. It felt like no one was really in charge this time. Normally I'd see Greg Sullivan highly visible but to me he wasn't??? I've yet to hear who the Tournament Director was? I'm sure in name Greg is but he's not the hands on guy he was in the past??? As far as the food and other issues, it was poor. Greg should have insured that the competitors had reasonable access to food without waiting an hour. This would be to the casinos advantage. As far as the venue it's OK but it's easy to get to the casino from the airport but hard to get back. Uber doesn't come out for pickups and I had to start planning my ride back on monday for a thursday departure. Also they had no valet so I had to walk around the casing with my luggage after room check out as they had no place to store it........Come on. So, IMO planning by Diamond and the Casino for the event was poor this year.......and it showed.

Every. Single. Year. There seems to be problems with the software.

 

[FunChamp]

Nobody ever gave Dennis a spot at any game!

And nobody is really thrilled to play Dennis even in any game today either

 

[skogstokig]

don't know if this has been posted, but here is chad from diamond addressing the issues:

Derby City Recap show Presented by : Seybert's Billiard Supply

A full schedule of pool ended last week and we're going to be discussing it all. Chad from Diamond Billiard Products also stops by to answer some questions ...

www.youtube.com

 

[60inchcueguy]

If I recall correctly, Fedor was at number 10 before the Derby. He jumped to #2. In my opinion, he will be the world number 1 very, very soon. As filler recently said to Shane, "There is a new King." Well, Josh, step aside because Fedor will reign soon. I was so, so, so impressed with his performance at Derby! This kid is something truly special. As great as Shane, Filler, and Shaw are, Fedor might just be on a different level. That is a scary thing to say. I don't see anyone beating him anytime soon. Opinions?

I completely agree about Gorst!


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