Smart Cue: motion sensor tracking

LeagueShirts

I make pool stuff!
Silver Member
I'm an electrical engineer. I've had this concept in mind for a while. It's quite feasible to place motion sensors into a cue with a wireless transmitter. These sensors would monitor the stick's motion on every axis and send the data to a laptop and plot your motion through a stroke. It would also sense the force of the shot's impact. The stroke and impacts could be studied very carefully so the player could find flaws in their shooting and breaking stroke.

If this product was created, do you think you'd practice with a special cue to gain the benefit of the data collection? Would you rather have your cue embedded with the sensor? Would you take the time to learn the software? Would you pay a few hundred dollars for this product?

Thanks for your feedback and comments!
 

Nitro Psycho

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Me personally? Yes I would, unfortunately most of the people I have the pleasure of being around, would not spend that kind of money, nor would they invest the time into learning the software. But that is just my niche area, which I hope is no testament to the greater population, as I would love to use this.
 

LeagueShirts

I make pool stuff!
Silver Member
Yeah, similar idea. I had a jump start with a chip demo module that provided the whole solution ready to go, except for the interpretation of the data. The supplied evaluation software did datalog the data though.

One module could be attached to the stick, the other just plugs into the laptop usb port. Quite easy.
 

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Mr Hoppe

Sawdust maker
Silver Member
How does the chip maintain it's orientation for those who spin the cue just prior to their stroke?
 

ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
How about adding a wifi or bluetooth chip, so it can send data realtime to an app (desktop, mobile phone)?
 

jumunjo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is seriously cool, i had an idea for the development of the game for tv and it included something like this.

I based my idea around Nike's "the Oven".

Im gonna have to expand on this later as ive just got in from a 12 hour shift and need sleep, but i will post later, my thoughts

Cheers all
 

pooltchr

Prof. Billiard Instructor
Silver Member
If you really want feedback, rig it up so when you twist your wrist, or move the cue off the straight forward line, it sends an electric shock straight to the shooters hand.

Same principle as those dog training collars. Bad behavior gets unpleasant results!

I promise you will be stroking in a straight line in no time!!!!

:D:D:D

Steve
 

3RAILKICK

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I thought so too.

Very cool. Thanks for sharing. Johnnyt

Johnny-

I hit some and saw the feedback on the display. Have no idea what it meant. I discussed with JohnnyP that it would be cool to catalog a variety of displays of shots hit by Efren/Busty etc. side by side with video of the shot being made.

Everyone to the poolroom wanted to try it.

I tried it. I think I broke it. Mine didn't look too good.
 

LeagueShirts

I make pool stuff!
Silver Member
How about adding a wifi or bluetooth chip, so it can send data realtime to an app (desktop, mobile phone)?

It is already wireless. It transmits to the USB based module that you plug into the laptop.

The demo software already shows the raw sensor data like Jonny used. I could get one of the modules and get to that stage in 30mins. The next challenge would be making a custom software application to show the data in context to a shooters needs and store the work.

An upgrade would be drills that challenge the shooter to improve, as a typing tutor program would.
 

elvicash

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It is already wireless. It transmits to the USB based module that you plug into the laptop.

The demo software already shows the raw sensor data like Jonny used. I could get one of the modules and get to that stage in 30mins. The next challenge would be making a custom software application to show the data in context to a shooters needs and store the work.

An upgrade would be drills that challenge the shooter to improve, as a typing tutor program would.

Who makes those sensors? Freescale

What do the raw sensors cost with USB?

Do you know how G's the accelerometer is and what rate it will transmit data back to the PC? 6gs rate not sure

The proccessing of the data would be important to make sense of it do you know what the data looks like out of the sensor?

Here is the info I found on it....
cache.freescale.com/files/sensors/doc/app_note/AN3152.pdf


You can buy that sensor here

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Freescale-Semiconductor/RD3152MMA7260Q/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMsDhGtX52pdXsO4AqVKFvQ7HkI4g7qOBDs%3d

Cost about $106

I had this same thought in the past but this sensor combo is smaller and more affordable than anything I found at that time.
 
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ctyhntr

RIP Kelly
Silver Member
According to the documentation for the hardware, you can use Microsoft's HID class (Human Interface Class), which refers to keyboards, mice, and game ports.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff542443(v=VS.85).aspx

It is already wireless. It transmits to the USB based module that you plug into the laptop.

The demo software already shows the raw sensor data like Jonny used. I could get one of the modules and get to that stage in 30mins. The next challenge would be making a custom software application to show the data in context to a shooters needs and store the work.

An upgrade would be drills that challenge the shooter to improve, as a typing tutor program would.
 
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LeagueShirts

I make pool stuff!
Silver Member
I'm not really hitting you guys up for the engineering solution, I can do that. What I would like is your perspective on the market demand.

Let's ask it this way:

Is there anyone here who would pay $250 for a setup with custom software that would provide stroke training through data analysis and feedback?
 
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whitewolf

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you really want feedback, rig it up so when you twist your wrist, or move the cue off the straight forward line, it sends an electric shock straight to the shooters hand.

Same principle as those dog training collars. Bad behavior gets unpleasant results!

I promise you will be stroking in a straight line in no time!!!!

:D:D:D

Steve

I was going to say the same thing! You could use degrees of shock - the more off you are the greater the shock. Then that pro who was concentrating on just making the shot and ignoring the sound alarm would be in for a not-so-pleasant surprise.

BTW, the computer etc. is way too much work.

My brother bought one of these devices made for auto cross racing and we used calculus to graph.
 

LeagueShirts

I make pool stuff!
Silver Member
WW, even if the device was made to provide near-silent vibrations in the stick as off-axis feedback to the shooter, it would still need some code to allow some functional flexibility.

I think that if it was a single-purpose tool, like feedback based only on the side motion axis, than the tool could be made with some electronics without code.

In between, a simple tool could be made with a graduated light bar showing off axis movement. Maybe that's good enough. hmmmmm.
 

JohnnyP

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The stroke trace is useful as well.

It can show if you are decelerating at contact.
 

pooln8r

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not really hitting you guys up for the engineering solution, I can do that. What I would like is your perspective on the market demand.

Let's ask it this way:

Is there anyone here who would pay $250 for a setup with custom software that would provide stroke training through data analysis and feedback?

I'd be curious to see the reaction if this idea was placed in the ask an instructor forum. I think that would be a good place to start and then maybe after a few prototypes are done a big pool show like the SBE might be a great place to start collecting data and get people interested in what it can show you about improving your stroke. I know people who would love to have a way to develop their own stroke or to have a way to accurately emulate the stroke of someone they are already trying to emulate with only visual observation. I do think that the data you collect should work with software on a tablet pc or ipad and smartphone or laptop so you can have that stroke path and other data right there at the table real time.

It would additionally be cool if you could use this to quantify the hit of the cues being used. Could work for cue makers in matching players with the most effective and comfortable cue for them.
 
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