Smoke-Stained Walls, Messy Spit Buckets, No Alcohol, and Cussing Tolerated

[JAM]

Here is a GREAT read entitled "Pool Halls of Osceola."

The pool halls of Osceola were an important part of my boyhood growing up and to the men of the Townsend family, my father, Everett and my brothers, Gerald, Duane, and Kenneth. My mother noted in my baby book that I was given my first hair cut in the pool hall barbershop. We lived in Liberty Township, first east of Jay and then south of Liberty community. It was our family’s custom to travel to Osceola on Saturdays to do our “trading”, eggs and cream for groceries and other commodities as needed. My father would spend most of this time in the pool hall on the south side of the city square to shoot pool and enjoy the comradery of those also taking part in this recreation. He was an accomplished pool payer with his own cue stored in a locked rack behind the manager’s counter (I’m not sure my mother ever knew of this extravagance). He especially enjoyed a game of snooker with his cronies. Snooker was a more precise billiards game on a larger table with narrower pockets and smaller balls. There were two snooker tables in the front of the pool hall and these were focus of attention for the best shooters and observers of the competitions.

The pool hall was a long narrow room with a high ceiling. Besides the snooker tables, there were a row of regular tables for other games such as eight ball and rotation. Stools and benches were located along the walls for the players and observers. While there was no prohibition of women in the pool hall, few ever entered it except to retrieve their spouse when the shopping was done. The atmosphere of smoke-stained walls and messy spit buckets were probably a deterrent for most of the town’s ladies.

No alcohol was served in Osceola’s pool halls, just “pop” to drink, taken from a cooler filled with ice water. The cooler held a variety of flavored drinks from the local Jewel Bottling Company as well as the colas of the day, all in glass bottles. The manager’s counter at the front of the room held various tobacco products as well as candy and gum. The pool hall was a fellowship meeting place where stories were told and cussing was tolerated, lit only with florescent lights over the tables offset by a haze of tobacco smoke. Cigars were the tobacco of choice for many of the snooker players and they contributed significantly to the heavy aroma of the room.

There were a number of regulars that played with my father, each with his own personality. One of these was Gerald “Red” Cottrell, who played with great gusto; cheering for himself with a good shot and slamming his cue to the floor in disgust when he missed a shot.

I started playing pool in my early teens in the late 1950’s, beginning at the back table which was in the poorest playing condition with taped tears in the well worn felt surface. As my skills improved, I worked my way to the front of the room. At lunch break during high school, my childhood friend and classmate, Wayne Black, and I would literally run from the high school to the pool hall to play a few games of eight ball while we ate our sack lunches. The return run was sometimes delayed by a passing train at the crossing between the city square and high school causing late arrival in our afternoon class. Being farm boys, we had to ride the bus to school and this was our only opportunity to play pool during the week. Meredith Wilson’s “Music Man” would probably have frowned on our adventures.

In the early 1950’s a second pool hall was opened above the shoe store on the east side of the square. It was furnished with new tables and associated fixtures, but it seemed very sterile in comparison to the south side pool room. The pool hall was very special to me and my family. I am sorry to see that they are no longer a part of the Osceola recreational scene.

Source: http://www.osceolaiowa.com/articles/2009/10/28/02588585/index.xml [Retrieved 8 November 2009]

 

[Ball Banger]

I was 14 yr old when I spend the summer with my two old maid aunts, it was the summer of 1955. The old 3 story Victorian house still had Gas mantels lights (no longer in use) and Gas fire places in each room. It had two stair cases and the back Stair case went from the Basement to the full size attic with windows. Both of which were filled tons of interesting junk. Groceries were delivered by the local store and my aunts fed me well as a growing boy. But what I loved and remember most about that summer was the freedom My aunts gave me to run my own way. The bus stopped right in front of the house.

The place was Wheeling WV. and there must of been 5 pool Halls that would fit the decribsion of the Osceola pool hall. Of course let us not forget the Rack Boy. Generally an an older man with Pipe and a Change apron. He would carry the old wood rack on his shoulder and as smart ass punk kids we yell Rack-em Pops and throw him a Dime. Most of these Pool Halls had sweater's box or raised seating to view play. Brass spit patroons were every where and the hard wood floor around them was stained with Tobacco juice. The older 1930's tables had Cigarette burns all over the rails. I spent most of that summer playing pool in those places and as a Young kid with money in my pocket I got hustled a lot. But Education costs even if it wasn't the type of Education my parents approved.

 

[8Ball48043]

Sounds like my kind of place. Thanks for sharing.

 

[ShootingArts]

another great read!

JAM,

As always you find great articles. I have said it plenty of times before but I can walk into a hall like that anywhere from coast to coast, border to border, and I am home. I know all the people in there or at least I have known dozens just like them and we speak the same language and think the same thoughts.

There is just something very special about a pool hall that is a pool hall. Long and dark with a high ceiling and difficult to see from end to end of, very poorly lit except for the lights over the tables. This is a place where few judgments are made of a person other than about what he can do on a pool table and how he handles his debts of honor. Come in, keep quiet, shoot pool or ease up to the counter close enough to overhear tales of great battles of years gone by. These places welcome those who respect them and those that don't are soon made unwelcome in a dozen little ways.

I have been in pool rooms, even very nice pool rooms, but it has been a very long time since I have been in a pool hall.

Hu

 

[Johnnyt]

That room is exactly what mine was like in the 1960's on Long Island, NY. When my Dad and I bought it, it had spitoons by every table and one bathroom. Only thing we changed was to take the spitoons out. Bathroom was still co-ed. Johnnyt

 

[alstl]

Here is a GREAT read entitled "Pool Halls of Osceola."

The pool halls of Osceola were an important part of my boyhood growing up and to the men of the Townsend family, my father, Everett and my brothers, Gerald, Duane, and Kenneth. My mother noted in my baby book that I was given my first hair cut in the pool hall barbershop. We lived in Liberty Township, first east of Jay and then south of Liberty community. It was our family’s custom to travel to Osceola on Saturdays to do our “trading”, eggs and cream for groceries and other commodities as needed. My father would spend most of this time in the pool hall on the south side of the city square to shoot pool and enjoy the comradery of those also taking part in this recreation. He was an accomplished pool payer with his own cue stored in a locked rack behind the manager’s counter (I’m not sure my mother ever knew of this extravagance). He especially enjoyed a game of snooker with his cronies. Snooker was a more precise billiards game on a larger table with narrower pockets and smaller balls. There were two snooker tables in the front of the pool hall and these were focus of attention for the best shooters and observers of the competitions.

The pool hall was a long narrow room with a high ceiling. Besides the snooker tables, there were a row of regular tables for other games such as eight ball and rotation. Stools and benches were located along the walls for the players and observers. While there was no prohibition of women in the pool hall, few ever entered it except to retrieve their spouse when the shopping was done. The atmosphere of smoke-stained walls and messy spit buckets were probably a deterrent for most of the town’s ladies.

No alcohol was served in Osceola’s pool halls, just “pop” to drink, taken from a cooler filled with ice water. The cooler held a variety of flavored drinks from the local Jewel Bottling Company as well as the colas of the day, all in glass bottles. The manager’s counter at the front of the room held various tobacco products as well as candy and gum. The pool hall was a fellowship meeting place where stories were told and cussing was tolerated, lit only with florescent lights over the tables offset by a haze of tobacco smoke. Cigars were the tobacco of choice for many of the snooker players and they contributed significantly to the heavy aroma of the room.

There were a number of regulars that played with my father, each with his own personality. One of these was Gerald “Red” Cottrell, who played with great gusto; cheering for himself with a good shot and slamming his cue to the floor in disgust when he missed a shot.

I started playing pool in my early teens in the late 1950’s, beginning at the back table which was in the poorest playing condition with taped tears in the well worn felt surface. As my skills improved, I worked my way to the front of the room. At lunch break during high school, my childhood friend and classmate, Wayne Black, and I would literally run from the high school to the pool hall to play a few games of eight ball while we ate our sack lunches. The return run was sometimes delayed by a passing train at the crossing between the city square and high school causing late arrival in our afternoon class. Being farm boys, we had to ride the bus to school and this was our only opportunity to play pool during the week. Meredith Wilson’s “Music Man” would probably have frowned on our adventures.

In the early 1950’s a second pool hall was opened above the shoe store on the east side of the square. It was furnished with new tables and associated fixtures, but it seemed very sterile in comparison to the south side pool room. The pool hall was very special to me and my family. I am sorry to see that they are no longer a part of the Osceola recreational scene.

Source: http://www.osceolaiowa.com/articles/2009/10/28/02588585/index.xml [Retrieved 8 November 2009]

Thanks, I enjoyed reading that. I also was living in farm country in Iowa when I was introduced to pool.

The mention of spit buckets reminded me of this. I used to know a guy in his 90's named Tom Fitzgerald who owned several taverns in St Louis. He told he had one of these in a bar he owned and a stranger got drunk and urinated in it one time. He waited until he was finished peeing and then tossed him out of the place. He also said he had a pool table for a while but got rid of it because the customers were using the cues on each other.

If you click on the link there is a picture of what the flow through spittoon looked like.

Sometime during the turn-of-the-century, tavern owners replaced traditional spittoons with a constant flow trough spittoon. Running the full length of the bar, fresh water would wash away un-pleasantries to an awaiting drain. These troughs were commonly made out of tile, sheet metal or if in a few cases marble. Although designed for tobacco chewing customer, countless stories tell of patrons relieving themselves right at the bar.

 

[gulfportdoc]

I was 14 yr old when I spend the summer with my two old maid aunts, it was the summer of 1955. The old 3 story Victorian house still had Gas mantels lights (no longer in use) and Gas fire places in each room. It had two stair cases and the back Stair case went from the Basement to the full size attic with windows. Both of which were filled tons of interesting junk. Groceries were delivered by the local store and my aunts fed me well as a growing boy. But what I loved and remember most about that summer was the freedom My aunts gave me to run my own way. The bus stopped right in front of the house.

The place was Wheeling WV. and there must of been 5 pool Halls that would fit the decribsion of the Osceola pool hall. Of course let us not forget the Rack Boy. Generally an an older man with Pipe and a Change apron. He would carry the old wood rack on his shoulder and as smart ass punk kids we yell Rack-em Pops and throw him a Dime. Most of these Pool Halls had sweater's box or raised seating to view play. Brass spit patroons were every where and the hard wood floor around them was stained with Tobacco juice. The older 1930's tables had Cigarette burns all over the rails. I spent most of that summer playing pool in those places and as a Young kid with money in my pocket I got hustled a lot. But Education costs even if it wasn't the type of Education my parents approved.

BB, I missed you by 5 years. In the summer of 1960 I spent several weeks at Oglebay park outside of Wheeling, where I played with the Wheeling Youth Symphony. One day I walked down to Rte. 40 and hitch-hiked into town. I was walking down the street (probably Market St.), when I heard the unmistakable sound of the breakshot in pool. I followed the sound to an upstairs joint in the middle of town. They let me come in and play, even though I was only 16 years old. Spent the whole day there, then hitch-hiked back to Oglebay. Great summer days!!

My favorite room at that time was to be Henneger's on 4th St. in downtown Pittsburgh. They still had the spittoons until the time of my move in 1962. To be honest, with all the guys using Skoal, they could still use them today! That place was heaven. It was on the 2nd floor, which was common then, and had lots of pool and 3C tables. The cigar smoke was thick, and there was always a guy with a fedora pushed back, leaning into the pay phone, talking with his bookie.

The rooms today are mostly family fun centers with unbearably loud music and cocktail bars. If you wanted a drink in the old rooms, you kept a pint in your jacket.

Doc

 

[Ball Banger]

BB, I missed you by 5 years. In the summer of 1960 I spent several weeks at Oglebay park outside of Wheeling, where I played with the Wheeling Youth Symphony. One day I walked down to Rte. 40 and hitch-hiked into town. I was walking down the street (probably Market St.), when I heard the unmistakable sound of the breakshot in pool. I followed the sound to an upstairs joint in the middle of town. They let me come in and play, even though I was only 16 years old. Spent the whole day there, then hitch-hiked back to Oglebay. Great summer days!!

My favorite room at that time was to be Henneger's on 4th St. in downtown Pittsburgh. They still had the spittoons until the time of my move in 1962. To be honest, with all the guys using Skoal, they could still use them today! That place was heaven. It was on the 2nd floor, which was common then, and had lots of pool and 3C tables. The cigar smoke was thick, and there was always a guy with a fedora pushed back, leaning into the pay phone, talking with his bookie.

The rooms today are mostly family fun centers with unbearably loud music and cocktail bars. If you wanted a drink in the old rooms, you kept a pint in your jacket.

Doc

Gulfportdoc

I am thinking Diamond Pool Hall on Diamond St Pgh. It was upstairs and the Sweater's Box or spectator section was right at the top of the stairs. Then there was the Bowling alley just above the 5 & 10 Those are the only two 2nd floor Pool Halls I remember.

I spend a lot of time at Oglebay park. My family rented a cabin each summer. The old Maid Aunts raised my Mother so we visited them a lot. There House was something else. But WV. was 18 to drink and Pa. 21. It was Wheeling or Chester WV. That had the party. I moved away in 1956 so I wasn't old enough.

 

[alstl]

BB, I missed you by 5 years. In the summer of 1960 I spent several weeks at Oglebay park outside of Wheeling, where I played with the Wheeling Youth Symphony. One day I walked down to Rte. 40 and hitch-hiked into town. I was walking down the street (probably Market St.), when I heard the unmistakable sound of the breakshot in pool. I followed the sound to an upstairs joint in the middle of town. They let me come in and play, even though I was only 16 years old. Spent the whole day there, then hitch-hiked back to Oglebay. Great summer days!!

My favorite room at that time was to be Henneger's on 4th St. in downtown Pittsburgh. They still had the spittoons until the time of my move in 1962. To be honest, with all the guys using Skoal, they could still use them today! That place was heaven. It was on the 2nd floor, which was common then, and had lots of pool and 3C tables. The cigar smoke was thick, and there was always a guy with a fedora pushed back, leaning into the pay phone, talking with his bookie.

The rooms today are mostly family fun centers with unbearably loud music and cocktail bars. If you wanted a drink in the old rooms, you kept a pint in your jacket.

Doc

This is a little off topic but to show you how times have changed, one of the first places I worked had spittoons and a beer machine. Nowadays at that same place they would have a fit if they caught somebody chewing tobacco and they would escort the employee from the building if they caught them drinking.

Funny thing is, even though the pay wasn't much, the chewers and drinkers of old were more dedicated to the company than the newcomers. Go figure.

 

[JAM]

Thanks, I enjoyed reading that. I also was living in farm country in Iowa when I was introduced to pool.

The mention of spit buckets reminded me of this. I used to know a guy in his 90's named Tom Fitzgerald who owned several taverns in St Louis. He told he had one of these in a bar he owned and a stranger got drunk and urinated in it one time. He waited until he was finished peeing and then tossed him out of the place. He also said he had a pool table for a while but got rid of it because the customers were using the cues on each other.

If you click on the link there is a picture of what the flow through spittoon looked like.

Sometime during the turn-of-the-century, tavern owners replaced traditional spittoons with a constant flow trough spittoon. Running the full length of the bar, fresh water would wash away un-pleasantries to an awaiting drain. These troughs were commonly made out of tile, sheet metal or if in a few cases marble. Although designed for tobacco chewing customer, countless stories tell of patrons relieving themselves right at the bar.

That was a great link, with pictures too. I love pictures, as they can really complement any article.

I miss the old-timey pool rooms too, Hu. Every time I visit one, it's just like walking into the home of an old friend. I feel comfortable immediately. There were no ethnic, racial, or religious boundaries in the old-timey pool rooms. The only thing a person is judged on is how well they play.

What all of you have written about on this thread is exactly what I am trying to capture in words right now. It is a feeling that we all have felt when we're in our element; thus, a "real" pool room. The best ones I have ever been to did not serve alcohol, believe it ir not, and there was a comraderie there with all the "regulars."

Hanging out at a neighborhood pool room was like being a member of a clubhouse. I felt compelled to go every single day, for fear I'd miss something. And I would miss something if I didn't go every single day, most times. :grin-square:

The young'ns of today may never have any idea what we are writing about on this thread, but, if I have anything to say about it, I am going to set a few records straight real soon now. I may piss a few people with big egos off, but I'm now on a mission. :wink:

 

[JAM]

Here's a pretty cool piece of pool art by Michael Garman in his Cityscape collection. It is a totally unique "one of a kind" art form.

From the Pool Hall Blues to the U-Name-It-Bar, each Cityscape captures a slice of Americana . The Cityscapes have gained recognition by collectors worldwide.

I feel like I know each one of those characters. I cannot tell you how many quarters I've put in the juke box when I was hanging out in my local pool bar. LOL! :grin:

 

[JAM]

Bet y'all never heard of this Louisiana author, Errol Miller, who wrote "The Pool Hall Affair." His stories have appeared in hundreds of magazines. This looks like a pool jewel for an avid reader of pool-related material.

 

[JAM]

Here's a pretty cool link I found doing some research. In fact, I think it lists every pool movie that was ever made around the world.

Click it: "Billiard Movies" at BilliardsBoys-dot-com

I've seen most of them, but there's one movie on here, made in 1935, that really did pique my interest, "Bad Boy." The plot is an unemployed pool shark secretly marries his girlfriend and tries to find a respectable job to win over her disapproving parents.

But the funniest one, I think, which may be worth checking out has to be "En Este Pueblo No Hay Ladrones" (In This Town There Are No Thieves), a Mexican film made in 1964. When a young boy steals billiard balls from a local saloon, a stranger is charged with the crime. The local layabouts find there is no reason to hang out at the bar without being able to shoot pool, and the boy entertains thoughts of forming a gang to steal more billiard balls in hopes of making money.

 

[deadstroke7]

I posted the Part II of the Pool Halls of Osceola as well. It's my hometown. To bad it isn't around anymore...

Thanks JAM, ME

 

[gulfportdoc]

Gulfportdoc

I am thinking Diamond Pool Hall on Diamond St Pgh. It was upstairs and the Sweater's Box or spectator section was right at the top of the stairs. Then there was the Bowling alley just above the 5 & 10 Those are the only two 2nd floor Pool Halls I remember.

I spend a lot of time at Oglebay park. My family rented a cabin each summer. The old Maid Aunts raised my Mother so we visited them a lot. There House was something else. But WV. was 18 to drink and Pa. 21. It was Wheeling or Chester WV. That had the party. I moved away in 1956 so I wasn't old enough.

I can't remember if Hennegar's was on 4th St. or Forbes St. (just west of Wood St.). Anyway, at the top of the stairs were 3 billiard tables laid end to end. Just to the right of the top of the stairs was a phone booth. The counter and cue racks were further around to the right.

I vaguely remember a room on Diamond St.-- by the Diamond food markets. Incidentally, I think they removed that street during downtown renovations. I sure remember the 5 & 10. Was it Murphy's or Kresge's???

There was a good room over on 5th Ave. above Bond's clothing store. I believe is was called McGann's. [I may have the names Hennegar's and McGann's reversed.] It had a bowling alley, and newer Brunswick pool tables. The rack boys were black, and they used racks that had pool cloth tacked on one end that served as a base when the balls were racked by the rail. Then when the rack was pushed forward, the cloth piece would roll away, leaving the balls racked, and the table unblemished. I always thought that was a pretty good idea.

I don't think there are any downtown rooms anymore. There is still the same room out on Rte. 51. There's a room on Potomac in Dormont (not far from where Kelly's old joint was), and then there's Marino's room out in Bridgeville.

I haven't made a visit to Pittsburgh since 1991.

Doc

 

[JAM]

I can't remember if Hennegar's was on 4th St. or Forbes St. (just west of Wood St.). Anyway, at the top of the stairs were 3 billiard tables laid end to end. Just to the right of the top of the stairs was a phone booth. The counter and cue racks were further around to the right.

I vaguely remember a room on Diamond St.-- by the Diamond food markets. Incidentally, I think they removed that street during downtown renovations. I sure remember the 5 & 10. Was it Murphy's or Kresge's???

There was a good room over on 5th Ave. above Bond's clothing store. I believe is was called McGann's. [I may have the names Hennegar's and McGann's reversed.] It had a bowling alley, and newer Brunswick pool tables. The rack boys were black, and they used racks that had pool cloth tacked on one end that served as a base when the balls were racked by the rail. Then when the rack was pushed forward, the cloth piece would roll away, leaving the balls racked, and the table unblemished. I always thought that was a pretty good idea.

I don't think there are any downtown rooms anymore. There is still the same room out on Rte. 51. There's a room on Potomac in Dormont (not far from where Kelly's old joint was), and then there's Marino's room out in Bridgeville.

I haven't made a visit to Pittsburgh since 1991.

Doc

Wow, talk about Memory Lane. I've been to a few of those spots.

The action place in Pittsburgh during this era was a bar called "Good and Plenty." Pittsburgh sure is a pretty town, with all those bridges and water. I remember enjoying the scenery a lot. Elsewhere in PA, though, it seemed like every car we passed had a deer on the hood.

 

[Ball Banger]

I can't remember if Hennegar's was on 4th St. or Forbes St. (just west of Wood St.). Anyway, at the top of the stairs were 3 billiard tables laid end to end. Just to the right of the top of the stairs was a phone booth. The counter and cue racks were further around to the right.

I vaguely remember a room on Diamond St.-- by the Diamond food markets. Incidentally, I think they removed that street during downtown renovations. I sure remember the 5 & 10. Was it Murphy's or Kresge's???

There was a good room over on 5th Ave. above Bond's clothing store. I believe is was called McGann's. [I may have the names Hennegar's and McGann's reversed.] It had a bowling alley, and newer Brunswick pool tables. The rack boys were black, and they used racks that had pool cloth tacked on one end that served as a base when the balls were racked by the rail. Then when the rack was pushed forward, the cloth piece would roll away, leaving the balls racked, and the table unblemished. I always thought that was a pretty good idea.

I don't think there are any downtown rooms anymore. There is still the same room out on Rte. 51. There's a room on Potomac in Dormont (not far from where Kelly's old joint was), and then there's Marino's room out in Bridgeville.

I haven't made a visit to Pittsburgh since 1991.

Doc

Doc

I haven't lived in Pittsburgh since 1956 and I was 15 about to turn 16 when my family moved to Florida. So I am talking 53 years ago. I did make a few visits in the 60's and found Action in Squirrel Hill and Shadyside. But My sister and Brother In Law were doing grad work at Carnegie Tech and living on that side of town.

Yep the Felt tacked on the rack is one I forgot about. I have seen that in other places during that time period. As kids we rode the streetcar to Downtown every Saturday to go to the YMCA to work out and then run the streets and Pool Halls. But I had to be home by dinner at that age. Sorry I don't remember the names of those places. But they all sound familiar.

Dormont I remember two Rooms. One was in the back of a shoe repair shop near the End of the Dormont Street Car line. The other was Below street level across the street from the Big Boy EatnPark.

Marino sounds real familiar. Wasn't he a Short Stop who had stake horse and played a lot of action?? I heard a story about his Stake Horse jumping ship and he ran a 150 and out to keep from getting beat up because he didn't have the money!!! I only remember the Bridgeville Skating ring and met the guy who owned it here in Florida one day.

There was also a famous 3 cushion player Named Bill ??? from the Baldwin area.

Sorry Guys but as old Farts remembering place we have been is enjoyable.

 

[pt109]

Marino

Marino sounds real familiar. Wasn't he a Short Stop who had stake horse and played a lot of action?? I heard a story about his Stake Horse jumping ship and he ran a 150 and out to keep from getting beat up because he didn't have the money!!! I only remember the Bridgeville Skating ring and met the guy who owned it here in Florida one day.

There was also a famous 3 cushion player Named Bill ??? from the Baldwin area.

Sorry Guys but as old Farts remembering place we have been is enjoyable.[/QUOTE]

JIMMY MARINO won a world championship in the 70's - if he was a short stop there must have been a lot of bad players then

 

[JAM]

JIMMY MARINO won a world championship in the 70's - if he was a short stop there must have been a lot of bad players then

Marino actually had a pool room in Pittsburgh, right on the corner. I remember it well. It may still be there.

I'm trying to remember the names of some of the players from the '70s and '80s era. I definitely know of the player named "The Jeweller." He'd stack it up as high as you'd want, as long as he got spotted. He was good action, but you just had to get him down right. He was a gentleman player.

In Morgantown, WV, there was a bar named Buck's that had a lot of bar table action. It got a little rough in there, and so you needed to bring a little muscle with you to give a presence of solidarity. :grin:

 

[billf59]

old pool rroom

man does this bring back old memories sounds just like the old pool room in my home town of boluntsville al 6 brunkswick 8 footers old man racking soft drinks only spit toons smoking cussing but officaly no gambling but plenty of action un offically the ladyes of the town was all time complaning about the loud cussing could be heard in the street the owner was a man by the name of ode he was in a wheel chair put there because of a bad gambling deat mean as a snake place was finaly closed in mid 70 a man ran his mayer campaqing out of there got elected then for the laydes shut it down because of the cussing and gambling I grew up there played a lot of 8 ball 9 ball and a local game called 13 ball you shot the closet ball to cue ball 13 was the money ball man did I see a lot of arugments over that game sorry for the rambling just old memories comming back grate post thanks for making me remember