Kamui SS and Ultraskins S. I really can't tell the difference and Ultraskins are substantially less $ than Kamui. All my recent tips have been Ultraskins.
So many tips, so hard to decide on which one to try!
- Thread starter salam4
- Start date
One of the VERY BEST PLAYER IN ARIZONA use to use a LePro, IMHO I would play with a LePro if I could guarantee it would give me that guys talent, skill, and mental game.
IMHO there are no Magic Tips, just samesmen sellin snake oil, to Pool players who believe BS, like Bass Fisherman believe BS like this bass lure will catch you a world record bass.
Pool & Bass Fishing require skill.
IMHO there are no Magic Tips, just samesmen sellin snake oil, to Pool players who believe BS, like Bass Fisherman believe BS like this bass lure will catch you a world record bass.
Pool & Bass Fishing require skill.
Yes
^That^.
Funny thing I just mentioned these tips in my AZ blog and forgot what the name was.
I wanted something hard like a hercules and the man said try the Ultraskins. I think the mediums are plenty hard for me. I've played at least 12 hours of pool and just recently scruffed it. And that was mostly because I was trying out a scruffer !
^That^.
Funny thing I just mentioned these tips in my AZ blog and forgot what the name was.
I wanted something hard like a hercules and the man said try the Ultraskins. I think the mediums are plenty hard for me. I've played at least 12 hours of pool and just recently scruffed it. And that was mostly because I was trying out a scruffer !
A tip thread? This is something different...
Old Fishing Biz saying: lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish.
Ron Swanson
Banned
I'd be surprised if they weren't essentially the same tip in terms of production and process, perhaps with slightly different grade leather and more rigorous quality control for the Kamuis.
There can't be a Kamui tip factory, an Ultraskin tip factory, a Moori tip factory, and so on.
Ron Swanson
Banned
I just changed from an Ultraskin medium to a Kamui tan medium, and noticed an immediate difference in performance, so bought 3 kamuis to keep in reserve in case they stop making them or they turn to shit.
Two weeks later, I'm struggling to see a difference in how I play. I find this principle true of pretty much everything pool related I've ever bought.
If your coming off a LePro fix, Before you go all " tip flavor of the week" i recommend the best way to go is Triangle.
They play like a "good" lepro should just with better consistency out of the box, also there affordable and reliable and every tip installer has them in stock.
They play like a "good" lepro should just with better consistency out of the box, also there affordable and reliable and every tip installer has them in stock.
As a snake oil salesman I can assure you that there are no magic tips... I can promise you however that there are so many variables in making a tip that almost no 2 tips by different manufacturers are going to play and feel the same... The idea is to find the tip that feels and works the best for you and that doesn't change so much with play to cause extended break in periods when dealing with replacement..... Consistency is also an issue to consider...
Using LePro as your example I can say that when I played with them I had to sometimes go thru a handful of them before finding one that played like I liked... The QC on many tips makes it very hard to depend on getting the same tip you bought the last time ....
For many players this really isn't a big deal. But for better players this can be huge...
I started looking at tip making and all of the differences in processing several years ago because of something I witnessed at DCC... I was talking to Joe Blackburn at his booth about the different tips out and what his thoughts were when Bustamante comes up and hands Joe a shaft and tells him he needs a new tip... Joe puts a tip on the cue while he waits and Francisco runs off with it as soon as it's done... He's gone less than 5 minutes before he is standing in front of Joe's booth again.... Joe sticks another tip on and Buste runs off again only to return again for a 3rd tip.... This was a premiere tip not a cheapo... I won't tell you which tip it was only that it is one of the top layered tips on the market.....
I laughed and said something funny to Joe about the whole ordeal and he said it was not unusual for the pro players to swap out their tips every month and that they could tell immediately if the new tip was going to play like they wanted... They could not afford to have to deal with tips playing different than they were dialed in for since a little more or less action on the cueball could cost them $1000s or a match....
The following is a list of the things that impact how a tip plays:
Type of leather - Cow, Buffalo, Pig are the most common with synthetics just now being explored.....
Type of Tanning - Mineral, Chrome or Vegetable common but the tanning process itself varies between tanners/manufacturers so as to cause differences....
Construction - Leather fibers or layers.. Fiber size and Layer thickness also plays a roll in the final product so this is a variable with variables....
Chemical additives/processing - better cueing thru modern chemistry is pretty much my slogan here... There are a wide range of elastomers, hardeners and drying agents that can be employed to change a tips characteristics. One of the main differences between layered tips is the choice of adhesive used between the layers. Some adhesives are harder than others and will impact the tips feel and overall hardness...
Pressure - How many pounds are the tips pressed at? Lots of manufacturers will sell the exact same tip as a soft, medium or hard simply by pressing them differently.. This couples with the fiber size/ layer thickness is what causes many tips to change entire grades in the course of 4-6 weeks... Might not matter to most but If I buy a soft I would like it to still be a soft for 2-3 times longer than that....
QC processes - From the initial grading to the final testing of Shore hardness and size, controls must be in place to ensure every tip you sell as a medium is going to be the same the next time the customer buys it.. This sounds pretty simple but I can promise you that I lose about 20-25% during processing... Are the tips I cull sound? Likely 75% of the culls would be considered good tips but they are not within a range that I can confidently sell to the public and be sure the next one will be the same for them.....
Saying there is no magic tip is very accurate. But all tips are not even close to being the same... Outsville makes things because I want them to exist and I see a need.. Usually it's my own need/want that drives what I work on next... I needed a better template than the MBR... I made the Accu-Racks since the poolroom I go to had old/worn balls.... I was tired of chasing a tip that didn't change and played as I expected without crossing me up.. The Outsville Ki-Techs were created... Single Layered performance tips...
Layered tips were created because Mr. Moori wanted to use pigskin because it was more elastic... Elasticity is in the magic err sorry chemistry.... I went single layered because I can use cow hide and adjust my elasticity to be even higher than pig skin....
Even saying all this do I think everyone will like the Ki-Techs? I am still selling samplers for $15 every day and for the most part the consensus is yes they work as advertised... They aren't magic they are just solid.....
Chris
As a snake oil salesman I can assure you that there are no magic tips... I can promise you however that there are so many variables in making a tip that almost no 2 tips by different manufacturers are going to play and feel the same...Awww Hogwash!!! Damn snake-oil salesman! I once heard years ago about some New fandangled "Autoe-mo-bile" type thingy. Was supposed to 'replace' the horse and buggy some day, HA! Look where that got em. Yes sir, I still crack that whip at old Mabel 'n' she gets where ima going juusstt fine...
You can keep yer 'magic', tek-nol-ogy, to your darn self! Ill cetch me as many feesh as you Mr., and do it wit a switch n twine off dat ol' Oak tree down yonder..Yes sir-ee...
As a snake oil salesman I can assure you that there are no magic tips... I can promise you however that there are so many variables in making a tip that almost no 2 tips by different manufacturers are going to play and feel the same...Awww Hogwash!!! Damn snake-oil salesman! I once heard years ago about some New fandangled "Autoe-mo-bile" type thingy. Was supposed to 'replace' the horse and buggy some day, HA! Look where that got em. Yes sir, I still crack that whip at old Mabel 'n' she gets where ima going juusstt fine...
You can keep yer 'magic', tek-nol-ogy, to your darn self! Ill cetch me as many feesh as you Mr., and do it wit a switch n twine off dat ol' Oak tree down yonder..Yes sir-ee...
Made me laugh :grin:
Uh, yes there can be. Tom Hays posts on AZB and he makes the Ultraskins. There was a thread that compared (using high powered magnified photos) the quality of the Ultraskins leather to most of the tips on the market and his product was far superior to the other brands. That doesn't say he makes a magic tip, as tips are entirely subject to personal preference.
This isn't a situation such as rebranded Skippy peanut butter made at the same factory, as you suggested.
I'd have to say the real difference in price between Ultraskins and Kamui would be the size of their payroll and advertising budget.
AMEN, and one might wonder how Mosconi played so well with that crap equipment he had, compared to today's super duper Cues, Tips, etc.,etc. I think it was Willie's SKILL that made Willie who he was.
I truly hope you like it, and personally feel the Kamui Blacks are the best tip on the market...
But, they play pretty hard, even the Super Soft (especially over a little time), and you mentioned that you do not like a hard tip....
There are a few things you need to be aware of with a Kamui Black:
- First: You HAVE to give it some time to get used to. They play much different than ANY other tip. You'll quickly see exactly what im talking about, and especially if your playing on a good table with good cloth, tighter pockets and clean balls (wont be as noticeable on a mud table with buckets, but you'll still be able to see it)
- Second: I rarely advise a lower handicapped player to use a Kamui Black (I of course have absolutely no idea what your speed is, im just saying this to put it out there). They usually havent developed a good stroke yet, and cant handle them. They tend to miscue MUCH more than with another tip, and quickly blame the tip (its not the tip...
- Third: This applies whenever your using ANY english on whitey; Use about HALF of what you normally would use to get the same desired results (For example: If you have a shot you would normally use a full tip of english, try using half a tip. Half tip shot, use a quarter tip. Etc..).
- Lastly: Get used to scuffing your tip on a regular basis. They will glaze over very quickly, and you'll again, start to miscue because it isnt holding chalk well. Depending on how you play, you'll probably need to scuff it at least every other time you play.. This is why Kamui came out with their Gator Grip (as well as to sell you something else). You can get back to good chalk adhesion without taking a tip layer off every other day with a williard, or making mince meat out of it with a tip pic..
They do not mushroom very much, but you WILL need to have your tip guy trim up the sides for you and reburnish it after a good 400-500 balls hit (he should offer to do this for free by the way. It literally takes 2 minutes, and is good business to offer it..)
Good luck with you new tip, and let us know your thoughts on it after you've given it some time..:thumbup:
Hmmm,
I was thinking of going with a Kamui black but perhaps I am not ready for one. I do not need a tip that will miscue more than others because my stroke is not perfect yet. Any recommendations for a newish player looking for a tip.... Here's my thread where I asked for advice on what tip I should get
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=331826
I have recently tried a bunch of tips. Here is my review
Ultraskin: did not care for. miscued a lot and dried out after a short time- did not hold chalk well and did not scuff easily enough to maintain it easily.
G2: very good tip. Playability wise was the best of the bunch
PoolDawg's milk duds: best value out there. Tip played like a layered and played close in feel to the G2 than say the ultraskin.
Kamui Black: Love this tip. While I think the G2 can be slightly better the Kamui is more consistent. Every shot feels the same regardless of speed or where on the CB I hit.
Ultraskin: did not care for. miscued a lot and dried out after a short time- did not hold chalk well and did not scuff easily enough to maintain it easily.
G2: very good tip. Playability wise was the best of the bunch
PoolDawg's milk duds: best value out there. Tip played like a layered and played close in feel to the G2 than say the ultraskin.
Kamui Black: Love this tip. While I think the G2 can be slightly better the Kamui is more consistent. Every shot feels the same regardless of speed or where on the CB I hit.
thinking different
How many brands of tips cant a person play good with.
Is there any one tip that really stands out by its self , kamui is a hell of a tip but its does change just like every soft layered tip does.
It is IMO impossible for pig skin or cow hide not to compact and get harder after being hammered a few hundred times...............
If I scuff the tip and it will hold chalk and I don't hit the cue ball anything over a tip in a half from center of the cue ball. What is the problem? For what its worth I am not a lepro fan.
I can play well with a triangle , my favorite tips are soft layered tips.
But at a certain time and place , I can play well with 10 or 15 different brands or hardness of tips.
I will say when I used a LD laminated shaft the only tip I liked was moori soft.
I am happy to say that I $hit canned that POS and went back to a solid maple shaft, no glue needed thank you.
I think a lot of players would be surprised what tip they really can play with.
MMike
How many brands of tips cant a person play good with.
Is there any one tip that really stands out by its self , kamui is a hell of a tip but its does change just like every soft layered tip does.
It is IMO impossible for pig skin or cow hide not to compact and get harder after being hammered a few hundred times...............
If I scuff the tip and it will hold chalk and I don't hit the cue ball anything over a tip in a half from center of the cue ball. What is the problem? For what its worth I am not a lepro fan.
I can play well with a triangle , my favorite tips are soft layered tips.
But at a certain time and place , I can play well with 10 or 15 different brands or hardness of tips.
I will say when I used a LD laminated shaft the only tip I liked was moori soft.
I am happy to say that I $hit canned that POS and went back to a solid maple shaft, no glue needed thank you.
I think a lot of players would be surprised what tip they really can play with.
MMike
I've tried every "new fangled" tip that has come down the pike,
and found that cheap-ass Super Pros are the best all-around tip
I have ever played with. I also use Blue Diamond Chalk exclusively.
and found that cheap-ass Super Pros are the best all-around tip
I have ever played with. I also use Blue Diamond Chalk exclusively.
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Ron Swanson
Banned
It would be good if Tom (and other tip manufacturers) confirmed.