So What Does One Do When They Don't Have a Decent Local Mechanic...?

[DeeDeeCues]

Reason not to use steel wool in-between coats is that it has an oil in it. After you have put your final coat of urethane on, and it's cured for r or 5 days you can use some 0000 steel wool loaded with Johnson paste wax to buff Don and smooth out the finish. Should leave a smooth satin to semigloss finish. Don't rub hard. Don't try this though unless your are sure you are done with your finish coats.

That can be a reason, but steel wool can also leave behind traces of steel which can rust and discolor finishes. Stainless steel wool is available and doesn't run the same risk.

You should always degrease between coats if there is concern.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

Scotch Brite pads are available in different grits and are great for poly.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

RESPECT!!! I can't wait to see how it all looks together!!! I appreciate your time and picture of your progress!!!

TFT

 

[The_JV]

Scotch Brite pads are available in different grits and are great for poly.

This is the route I will follow moving forward. I won't other with the steel wool any further. It only hit a small bit of one rail before the first coat of poly. One of those...: "ok I'll do this..., oh wait maybe I should read the instructions" situations.

I'm fairly sure I dodged this steel wool bullet.

Scotch Brite pads just seem like the superior method. What I have on had is waaay to coarse though. I'll need to pick something up.

 

[The_JV]

So I pulled the plug on the finishing shortly after my last post. I didn't bother knocking down the last coat of poly and hitting it once more with the fine bristle brush I was originally planning to. My reasoning was simple. My rails are not smooth and have a heavy amount of texture because of the oak grain structure. This natural texture kinda makes the whole chase for a perfect finish a bit moot I think. Well at least I didn't see the point anyways.

So what that earth shattering revelation allowed me to do, was move on to installing the facings.

Walking into this scope of the project, I really thought the heavy lifting was done with the pockets so I didn't give it much thought. In hindsight I did make at least one blunder that I'm aware of. It won't effect anything in terms of playability, but it's going to annoy me.

Step one was to glue/staple the facings into place:

The glued face was roughed up with some sandpaper. Nothing overly intense. Just enough to knock off the sheen. Figure this would provide the rubber cement some more holding power. I have been lead to believe that most cements in this specific app don't have the sheer strength to hold the facing over time. The hope is that the rougher surface and staples will help prevent any potential shifting. I have certainly seen tables with a shifted back facing. I don't know the installer's methods so I can't comment on the cause of the haphazard results.

Once the facings were on and stapled I also added some tape to keep some pressure on the assembly.

That tape wasn't very tight. I didn't want to overly flex the facing material and end up peeling away the center. It's just there to be more than nothing...lol

I let the rails sit for a couple of days to allow the cement to really set up. <-That's code for I didn't have time to get right back to it

When it came time to shape the facings, I thought I'd follow a two step process. First was to rough cut them down with a blade and then use some level of powertool to sand them to a finished state. Truth be told. I was terrified of using a powered method of sanding to get the facings to a flush state with the cushion. One YT poster actually uses a 4" grinder with a sanding disk. He claims great results. However I wasn't convinced. I've seen a couple of pros on here recommend a small hand held belt sander. I'm sure that would have been fine, but I wasn't in a mood to source and buy that tool for a one off project.

In the end I opted to simply use a blade to get 95% of the way there, and then some 320g paper with a block to finish it off.

I just used a fresh blade and let the cushion be the guide, making sure to never dive down. The second pic above shows the result prior to sanding. You can clearly see the "saw" marks I made as I worked through the rubber.

Once I got a hang of using the blade. It was more a process of smoothing out the facing with the sanding block then developing the needed shape.

As far as the shaping of the facings is concerned. I'm quite happy with the results.

Now my disappointment with the facings can be seen in the last pic. I'll post it again and highlight the problem.

So what neglected to do was account for enough overhang beyond the feather strip groove. The initial plan was to trim the facing off following the back of the feather strip groove. This would provide a very clean flush finish to the pocket liner. As it stands, all the facings are short in this regard. ...Now, the pocket liners will still be trimmed to some extent, so I'm sure I could do something creative here to minimize gaps. However I doubt I'll entertain that, as it really is inconsequential in the minor scheme of things.

I can't readily replace the facings. I don't have enough raw material left to replace all of the them. Live and learn I suppose. Next time I have to replace cushions I will know better.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

So I pulled the plug on the finishing shortly after my last post. I didn't bother knocking down the last coat of poly and hitting it once more with the fine bristle brush I was originally planning to. My reasoning was simple. My rails are not smooth and have a heavy amount of texture because of the oak grain structure. This natural texture kinda makes the whole chase for a perfect finish a bit moot I think. Well at least I didn't see the point anyways.

So what that earth shattering revelation allowed me to do, was move on to installing the facings.

Walking into this scope of the project, I really thought the heavy lifting was done with the pockets so I didn't give it much thought. In hindsight I did make at least one blunder that I'm aware of. It won't effect anything in terms of playability, but it's going to annoy me.

Step one was to glue/staple the facings into place:
View attachment 643652
The glued face was roughed up with some sandpaper. Nothing overly intense. Just enough to knock off the sheen. Figure this would provide the rubber cement some more holding power. I have been lead to believe that most cements in this specific app don't have the sheer strength to hold the facing over time. The hope is that the rougher surface and staples will help prevent any potential shifting. I have certainly seen tables with a shifted back facing. I don't know the installer's methods so I can't comment on the cause of the haphazard results.

Once the facings were on and stapled I also added some tape to keep some pressure on the assembly.
View attachment 643653
That tape wasn't very tight. I didn't want to overly flex the facing material and end up peeling away the center. It's just there to be more than nothing...lol

I let the rails sit for a couple of days to allow the cement to really set up. <-That's code for I didn't have time to get right back to it

When it came time to shape the facings, I thought I'd follow a two step process. First was to rough cut them down with a blade and then use some level of powertool to sand them to a finished state. Truth be told. I was terrified of using a powered method of sanding to get the facings to a flush state with the cushion. One YT poster actually uses a 4" grinder with a sanding disk. He claims great results. However I wasn't convinced. I've seen a couple of pros on here recommend a small hand held belt sander. I'm sure that would have been fine, but I wasn't in a mood to source and buy that tool for a one off project.

In the end I opted to simply use a blade to get 95% of the way there, and then some 320g paper with a block to finish it off.
View attachment 643655View attachment 643657
I just used a fresh blade and let the cushion be the guide, making sure to never dive down. The second pic above shows the result prior to sanding. You can clearly see the "saw" marks I made as I worked through the rubber.

Once I got a hang of using the blade. It was more a process of smoothing out the facing with the sanding block then developing the needed shape.
View attachment 643660View attachment 643663
As far as the shaping of the facings is concerned. I'm quite happy with the results.

Now my disappointment with the facings can be seen in the last pic. I'll post it again and highlight the problem.
View attachment 643673
So what neglected to do was account for enough overhang beyond the feather strip groove. The initial plan was to trim the facing off following the back of the feather strip groove. This would provide a very clean flush finish to the pocket liner. As it stands, all the facings are short in this regard. ...Now, the pocket liners will still be trimmed to some extent, so I'm sure I could do something creative here to minimize gaps. However I doubt I'll entertain that, as it really is inconsequential in the minor scheme of things.

I can't readily replace the facings. I don't have enough raw material left to replace all of the them. Live and learn I suppose. Next time I have to replace cushions I will know better.

I appreciate your attention to detail and how GOOD your project is coming out! My hat is off to you sir!! It is going to play great!

TFT

 

[The_JV]

I can't readily replace the facings. I don't have enough raw material left to replace all of the them. Live and learn I suppose. Next time I have to replace cushions I will know better.

I did roll around in my mind a patch work fix to this problem. Bascially I would glue in an 'extension' to the trailing edge of the facing, and trim to required size. Probably would work cosmetically, but there's really nothing else to be gained, and I'd hate to discover some level of pitfall after the fact, so I'm not going to bother.

Once the facings were done, I had a choice to make. Either reassemble the rails without cloth and perform the final fitting of the pocket liners. ...Or go ahead and cloth the rails and fit the pocket liners when I put it all together for the last time. I figured I'd save a step and do the pocket liners last. I suppose there is some potential to exposing my cloth to some level of risk by doing the pockets last. However I struggle with what it may be, and I don't want to fit the pocket liners without the rail geometry being perfect. So decision made and next sub-project discovered.

Feather strips...
So it should be fairly obvious to those following along. That if you're going to extend your subrails you need to expect to replace your feather strips. This wasn't something that crept up on me but more so slipped my mind over the course of the months this project has been marching through. My original feather strips were plastic. Taller than wide and had ribs along the sides. I assume to aid in gripping the cloth to the dado in the rail.

The manufacturer of my table does sell precut lengths of this plastic feather strip. Unfortunately they don't list the physical length of the strips. Only that they are cut for either 9ft, 8ft.... etc. I think it pretty unlikely that they are cut to such exacting standards, but for the cost (even though cheap) I knew I could make exactly what I needed without any wait.

So off to HD I went and picked myself up a piece of popular. Not that it was any cheaper than the plastic strips I could have bought. ...but at least I knew I had another example for the wife on why I needed all the tools

I read somewhere that popular was/is used for feather strips. I found nothing to say otherwise so I just ran with it. Can't completely remember, but I'm pretty sure that piece of wood cost a smidge more than the plastic strips. Again though..., tools.

So I took the original strip and used it as a template to set my tablesaw's fence. Made a test piece out of some crap I had laying around and attempted to hold the cloth within the rail dado. After a few trips down to the pool table, I had it dialed in. Step 1, rip down the strip width. Step 2, trim off the fat on the height.

The height isn't nearly as critical imo. The plastic strips had a decent amount of slop in this regard. I left my wooden versions just tall enough that I could staple them in if the fit was too loose and not create issues with wrapping the cloth.

After a minor amount of work I have my new feather strips ready to be trimmed down and installed.

 

[Sheldon]

I would let that stuff sit for at least a few days before cutting to final size. You will likely experience a bit of shrinking. A planer works great for dialing in the width. Make sure they're a bit on the snug side if you use them right away.

 

[The_JV]

I would let that stuff sit for at least a few days before cutting to final size. You will likely experience a bit of shrinking. A planer works great for dialing in the width. Make sure they're a bit on the snug side if you use them right away.

Excellent advice, and those considering ripping up their own feather strips should bookmark it.

In my particular situation. I benefit from intermittent free time, so things like waiting on the wood to stablize plays out nicely. That said I also have a few things working in my favour. My local climate is just starting to rise in humidity. So the plank 'should' have been sitting in low humidity enviroment for a decent chunk of time. I also keep my basement on the dry side and run a dehumidifier 24/7. ...and of course I didn't have a chance to install anything for days afterward.

All that said, These days I always err on the side caution. I've played too closely to the edge too many times...lol. It's been a handful of days already and the strips are a very snug fit with cloth in the mix.

Thank you for flagging the potential pitfall.

 

[The_JV]

I decided I'm not going to post much about the clothing of my table. There's far better resources available online then I could ever hope to produce here. Last thing I want to do is to inadvertently put some bad info out there and have someone unhappy with their own results.

That said, I have started wrapping the rails. The feather strips have held their form more than adequately. My finished results on the rails is hit or miss at best. I'm not overly impressed with my efforts in the spots people won't see, but then again, no one is going to see it so whatever. The improtant aspects are solid enough. Consistent stretch, points sharp...

That little fold where the facing meets the would be pocket liner bugs me but it won't be visible once the pockets are installed.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

I decided I'm not going to post much about the clothing of my table. There's far better resources available online then I could ever hope to produce here. Last thing I want to do is to inadvertently put some bad info out there and have someone unhappy with their own results.

That said, I have started wrapping the rails. The feather strips have held their form more than adequately. My finished results on the rails is hit or miss at best. I'm not overly impressed with my efforts in the spots people won't see, but then again, no one is going to see it so whatever. The improtant aspects are solid enough. Consistent stretch, points sharp...
View attachment 644538

View attachment 644539
That little fold where the facing meets the would be pocket liner bugs me but it won't be visible once the pockets are installed.

You are doing a great job! Can't wait to see it all done.

TFT

 

[The_JV]

Alrightly, I have new tangent... A new slate leveling system.

So my 'Celebrity' table doesn't a built in system for leveling the slates. It relies on the installer imploying the necessary wedges to raise the lower sections to reach the tables highest points. Sure it works fine, but it's a finnicky process that also suffers for settling over time. The mating edges of the slate also share a common supporting member which does make the wedge system annoying.

Back when I was spit balling a different take on leveling my table. I considered working in something like the Diamond screw driven system.

It of course suffers from it's own flaws which I could fix, but I think I have a handle on something easier.

So rather than inserting a wedge. I'm going to use a host of jack screws. I've been rolling around a couple different approaches to the jack screw concept. I don't see any reason to deviate from using the same number of support locations as the diamond product even though it borders on excessive imo. What I have been flip flopping on is how to support the threaded assembly that will drive the screw itself.

Originally, I was thinking of placing a layer of 3/4" plywood over the frame and using threaded tee nuts:

I have a crap ton of these tee nuts with a 3/8-16 pitch.

The problem with the whole plywood thing is dimension vs position. The frame measures nearly 4x8' so just flopping down a sheet of wood would force me to install the tee nut on the inside and away from the slate edge by ~8". That's not a massive problem but it would make adjustments annoying and there would be a decent amount of slate cantilevered around the outter perimeter of the table. I could cut up the sheet and position portions in the required areas, but then I worried about securing it to the frame adequately so it doesn't flex or worse yet pull itself out.

Next thought was to repurpose some hard maple material I've had kicking around forever. Plan was to cut dados in the frame at the needed positions and glue/screw hard maple blocks that would overhang the frame just enough to allow the tee nuts. The problem there is not really being able to use a jam nut to lock the jack screw into final position. I suppose something really thin could be used between the tee nut and slate but then I need a low profile wrench and adjustments after the skirt has been installed would be very annoying.

Next up, was a block of aluminum. This solved my jam nut problem as I could use one from the bottom up. I have lots of rough material and the means to machine it to final dimensions / threading. Unfortunately I don't a method to break down the large raw material to something more reasonable, and no outside resource I could use in such regard. ...so that pretty much killed the aluminum idea.

So, back to the hard maple blocks it is. I know if I keep the jack screw as close as possible to the frame, it will help prevent sagging over time. That said I would prefer to have the screws closer to the edge to allow ease when leveling everything. If I go this route, I'll most likely have to work in gussets on some level to prefer the fore mentioned sagging.

I really would like to use this damn table so maybe I should just whip it together and get to playing....lol Well I think I'll whip together a concept today and see if it's worth the effort.

Stay Tuned....

 

[Dartman]

I really would like to use this damn table so maybe I should just whip it together and get to playing....lol Well I think I'll whip together a concept today and see if it's worth the effort.

Novel idea. Use wedges and call it good.

 

[The_JV]

Novel idea. Use wedges and call it good.

meh... I was heaving one of the slates out of the way so I could take some measurements earlier, and noted how much the wedges compressed into the frame since I put the table together a couple of years ago. Definitive proof to the haphazard method. Really all the motovation I needed to do it better.

It's kinda become the theme for the project, so why mail it in now...

 

[The_JV]

Step 1: Make somewhat dimensionally similar blocks of wood.

Those are made with the salvaged hard maple I have kicking around. I know I've used it before in this project but just in case I didn't mention it already. I bought a section of bowling lane a decade or so ago. The original plan was to build a bench with it. That never happned so I tend to make odds and ends from the strips. The stuff cuts beautifully.

I'm going to mimick Diamond's count on the adjustment points. That equals 9 jack screws for end pieces and 6 for the middle chunk of slate. The pieces in the pic above are for the outter perimeter. The 8 jack screws located centrally will share blocks in pairs. So one longer block with 2 jack screws on either end. 1 for each neighbouring piece of slate. Those blocks haven't been cut yet.

The only real labour intensive aspect of this revamp is cutting in the pockets for these blocks into the existing frame. Thinking the router with a jig should speed that up well. Each cut on all the blocks were done in a single setup, so they're as similar dimensionally as a table saw can make them.

Mounting the blocks is still up in the air. Glue of course, but I'm not sold on screws just yet. The screws will be drilled into the edge of the plywood laminate frame. Holding power won't be very high.

Might have a drill bit long enough to core right through the frame and bolt the blocks in place.

 

[The_JV]

...and the wheels keep on turning:

I ripped through the rest of the hole drilling for the new leveling blocks. Didn't take much. Just set up the vise location so I can load the blocks in a consistent manner.

I still haven't bothered with the blocks that will 'bridge the gap' between the slates. I have everything required to produce them though.

So here's what I'm thinking in terms of layout.

No different than the pattern diamond uses. Only real consideration is the one cross member that helps support the legs. Now the diamond wedge system appears to be closer to the perimeter of the slate then what I have going on. With that said and assuming that they implemented the wedge concept correctly. It will also provide more contact support then I will. Open to suggestions on the layout of these locations. I'm really just working off the diamond example. Honestly don't know if theres a better approach.

My unrealized thoughts have me using a metal disk with a dimple to seat the business end of the jack screws. That will help disperse the weight off of the small screw diameter, and prevent the screws from buring themselves into the MDF substraight the slate is glued to.

Another aspect to "the plan" is to counter sink the blocks below the finished height of the frame. This allows for the extra meat of the insert and will allow me to slip in the 'DD' (dimpled disk) between the bolt and slate. Because I'm sure the first pic will confuse some people. The second pic below shows the actual placement of the block, but still of course requires countersinking into the frame. I've also added the potential location for the block's mounting hardware. Concept there is to have a piece of threaded rod run down through the frame. Insert top side, and washer/nut on the bottom. This will definitely secure the blocks adequately.

Next step to fab up some sort of jig to allow me to mill out the dados with a router.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

...and the wheels keep on turning:

I ripped through the rest of the hole drilling for the new leveling blocks. Didn't take much. Just set up the vise location so I can load the blocks in a consistent manner.
View attachment 649434View attachment 649435
I still haven't bothered with the blocks that will 'bridge the gap' between the slates. I have everything required to produce them though.

So here's what I'm thinking in terms of layout.
View attachment 649436
No different than the pattern diamond uses. Only real consideration is the one cross member that helps support the legs. Now the diamond wedge system appears to be closer to the perimeter of the slate then what I have going on. With that said and assuming that they implemented the wedge concept correctly. It will also provide more contact support then I will. Open to suggestions on the layout of these locations. I'm really just working off the diamond example. Honestly don't know if theres a better approach.

My unrealized thoughts have me using a metal disk with a dimple to seat the business end of the jack screws. That will help disperse the weight off of the small screw diameter, and prevent the screws from buring themselves into the MDF substraight the slate is glued to.

Another aspect to "the plan" is to counter sink the blocks below the finished height of the frame. This allows for the extra meat of the insert and will allow me to slip in the 'DD' (dimpled disk) between the bolt and slate. Because I'm sure the first pic will confuse some people. The second pic below shows the actual placement of the block, but still of course requires countersinking into the frame. I've also added the potential location for the block's mounting hardware. Concept there is to have a piece of threaded rod run down through the frame. Insert top side, and washer/nut on the bottom. This will definitely secure the blocks adequately.
View attachment 649438View attachment 649439

Next step to fab up some sort of jig to allow me to mill out the dados with a router.

Cant wait to see your finished product!


TFT

 

[realkingcobra]

...and the wheels keep on turning:

I ripped through the rest of the hole drilling for the new leveling blocks. Didn't take much. Just set up the vise location so I can load the blocks in a consistent manner.
View attachment 649434View attachment 649435
I still haven't bothered with the blocks that will 'bridge the gap' between the slates. I have everything required to produce them though.

So here's what I'm thinking in terms of layout.
View attachment 649436
No different than the pattern diamond uses. Only real consideration is the one cross member that helps support the legs. Now the diamond wedge system appears to be closer to the perimeter of the slate then what I have going on. With that said and assuming that they implemented the wedge concept correctly. It will also provide more contact support then I will. Open to suggestions on the layout of these locations. I'm really just working off the diamond example. Honestly don't know if theres a better approach.

My unrealized thoughts have me using a metal disk with a dimple to seat the business end of the jack screws. That will help disperse the weight off of the small screw diameter, and prevent the screws from buring themselves into the MDF substraight the slate is glued to.

Another aspect to "the plan" is to counter sink the blocks below the finished height of the frame. This allows for the extra meat of the insert and will allow me to slip in the 'DD' (dimpled disk) between the bolt and slate. Because I'm sure the first pic will confuse some people. The second pic below shows the actual placement of the block, but still of course requires countersinking into the frame. I've also added the potential location for the block's mounting hardware. Concept there is to have a piece of threaded rod run down through the frame. Insert top side, and washer/nut on the bottom. This will definitely secure the blocks adequately.
View attachment 649438View attachment 649439

Next step to fab up some sort of jig to allow me to mill out the dados with a router.

You're pursuing the wrong leveling pattern, need to call me. 702-927-5689

 

[MajorMiscue]

It cost me $300 just to import my Simonis cloth, plus the cost of the cloth. You're getting off lucky.

 

[The_JV]

You're pursuing the wrong leveling pattern, need to call me. 702-927-5689

As always... Thank you Glen for your time. Appreciated