So What Does One Do When They Don't Have a Decent Local Mechanic...?
- Thread starter The_JV
- Start date
$300 for import fee's?? Thats crazy!
You're welcome, you're doing such a good job, I don't want to see you get off on the wrong track
Now back to not talking to you again
Ok... so I nearly scrapped the whole concept above...lol. Work has been very slowly progressing, but in all honeslty so slowly I haven't bothered updating till now.View attachment 649438
Next step to fab up some sort of jig to allow me to mill out the dados with a router.
So like I said, I mostly scrapped the idea of the little 'outrigger' blocks with jacking screws. After some reflection I figured the gains of pushing out the leveling bolts roughly 1.25" wasn't worth the amunt of extra work. The reboot just involved drilling through the frame and using lengths of threaded rod for leveling purposes.
So those holes are stepped. Drilled to 3/8" all the way through, then oversized at the very top to allow the insert to fit. I thought I had pics of the threaded rod handy but can't find them. Guess you're just going to have to trust me...lol
To support the inner edges of the slate, I added the "outriggers". The frame's cross brace in this location isn't wide enough to have the jacking bolts in the same location.
Due to the late hours I was able to work on the table. I couldn't just clear out the pockets for the outriggers with my router. Most of the work was done by hand with a dovetail saw.
The guide lines were drawn with the actual block as reference. Only the extremes were done with any real care. The rest were just a means to allow easy clearing with a chisel. Once the bulk was removed. I then cleaned up the bottom with the router during a few spare moments when everyone was awake.
A little glue up action, and then rinse/repeat on the other side.
Finally coming back together....
Just for giggles I quickly adjusted the middle slate last night. Used my height guage to roughly lift the slate ~3/16" off the frame. Figured the threaded inserts were going to cause some inconsistency issues with the frame height. So, starting from there (3/16) I would then compare around the table to see if I needed more wiggle room to get everything coplanar.
Once adjusted, I thought I'd see how much easier it would be for me to level a single piece of slate with the jacking screws. Well..., in under 10mins and with some very gentle twists of an allen key, I have this on along all 4 sides of that center slate.
That's a Starrett 98-12, so advertised as .005" per grad over it's length.
I understand why furniture grade table manufacturers wouldn't go through the extra expense of adding a level system. I mean the labour costs involved with installation aren't generally a manufacturer problem. ...but wow does it make an incredible time saver. Easily the best improvement I have made to this table.
Next up is to true everything up and get the slates stuck together.
An impending major tourney for me has a burr in my ass to get this table playable, so I've been putting my head down and clawing for every moment I can.
Without too much trouble was able to get the three sections of slate roughly coplanar. Again, I wasn't overly stressed about making it "perfectly" level at this point. I knew there'd be adjustments after the sections were bonded together and with my choice to 'float' the slate so to speak.
Surprisingly enough I didn't snap a pic of it, but I did follow some sage advice and used a piece of paper drywall tape (paper) within the seams. The last time I whipped this table together I used only three small portions of business cards. Can't remember where I got that from. Anyways, that process involved spray gluing them to one side and they were just a means to create a small gap for filling purposes. This time round the pieces of card were replaced by a full length strip of paper drywall tape. It would of course mimic the gap produced by the cards, but it also functions as an absorbtion material for super glue.
After I spray glued the tape to one side (4 small spots) I closed up the gap until I had about 1/8" of space. At this point a decent amount of time was spent checking for coplanar between the slates. You really only have one shot at it, (without dissolving the glue) so I think you're better off taking a few moments in an effort to nail it the first time out.
Rough adjustments to correct misalignments like above went very quick. Once I couldn't see daylight anymore I went to sliding the square over the seam in both direction to feel for catching. This method revealed some small issues, and I actually found that one piece had a tiny crown to it. It was very small and took about 20lbs of weight in that location to correct. Figured that was light enough that gluing to the neighbouring slate might be enough to keep it held flat.
So once I was content with the alignment, I squeezed crazy glue into the gap as best as I could. Honestly, squeezing that bottle adequately was nearly as bad as pulling the cloth...lol.
To get even compression on the seam. I used a pair of ratchet straps along the edge of the slate. These were used to pull the seam closed and then put under a very small amount of tension. Just enough to apply a squeeze, but not nearly enough to alter the alignment of the pieces.
The glue up was nearly instantaneous, but I let it sit for ~5hrs before releasing the straps, and then another day when the other end was done.
Lastly, after a good amount of elbow grease, I manage to knock down the bondo I used to fill the seams.
I was really heavy handed with the bondo. Truth be told I'm one of those guys that never thinks he has enough harder in the mix. My working time ended up being in the range of ~5mins so it went on fast and thick....lol
Without too much trouble was able to get the three sections of slate roughly coplanar. Again, I wasn't overly stressed about making it "perfectly" level at this point. I knew there'd be adjustments after the sections were bonded together and with my choice to 'float' the slate so to speak.
Surprisingly enough I didn't snap a pic of it, but I did follow some sage advice and used a piece of paper drywall tape (paper) within the seams. The last time I whipped this table together I used only three small portions of business cards. Can't remember where I got that from. Anyways, that process involved spray gluing them to one side and they were just a means to create a small gap for filling purposes. This time round the pieces of card were replaced by a full length strip of paper drywall tape. It would of course mimic the gap produced by the cards, but it also functions as an absorbtion material for super glue.
After I spray glued the tape to one side (4 small spots) I closed up the gap until I had about 1/8" of space. At this point a decent amount of time was spent checking for coplanar between the slates. You really only have one shot at it, (without dissolving the glue) so I think you're better off taking a few moments in an effort to nail it the first time out.
Rough adjustments to correct misalignments like above went very quick. Once I couldn't see daylight anymore I went to sliding the square over the seam in both direction to feel for catching. This method revealed some small issues, and I actually found that one piece had a tiny crown to it. It was very small and took about 20lbs of weight in that location to correct. Figured that was light enough that gluing to the neighbouring slate might be enough to keep it held flat.
So once I was content with the alignment, I squeezed crazy glue into the gap as best as I could. Honestly, squeezing that bottle adequately was nearly as bad as pulling the cloth...lol.
To get even compression on the seam. I used a pair of ratchet straps along the edge of the slate. These were used to pull the seam closed and then put under a very small amount of tension. Just enough to apply a squeeze, but not nearly enough to alter the alignment of the pieces.
The glue up was nearly instantaneous, but I let it sit for ~5hrs before releasing the straps, and then another day when the other end was done.
Lastly, after a good amount of elbow grease, I manage to knock down the bondo I used to fill the seams.
I was really heavy handed with the bondo. Truth be told I'm one of those guys that never thinks he has enough harder in the mix. My working time ended up being in the range of ~5mins so it went on fast and thick....lol
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I appreciate the thorough nature of this thread. That said, it is especially important to remember that this is a DIY effort.
Just a bit of advice for next time, and for potential readers of this thread:
The idea behind the drywall tape is NOT to create a gap between the slates. The intent is to bond the slates together. Paper drywall tape will absorb the CA glue, and allow it to wick in between the slates. In addition, it's best to use narrow strips, spaced across the seam. I like to use 4-5 strips, depending on the table. This allows for ease of disassembly, should the table ever need to be moved.
Gluing a full width strip will cause significant difficulty, when trying to disassemble the table. And since the tape is below the surface of the slate, the CA glue that was poured into the seam will now bond the slates directly together, in the section above the paper. This will cause the slates to chip and break, upon disassembly. Best practice is to ensure that the paper extends the full thickness of the slate.
I used two, six inch strips on each gap for the very reasons mentioned above. But I just used paper towel strips. Worked great.
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Yes, 100%... and thank you for pointing that out. ...The DIY effort and not professional I mean
I should clarify that when the use of drywall tape was told to me. It was never explained as a means to allow a gap, only as a medium to absorb the CA glue. The whole gap thing is a blending of info. When I received the 'business card' advice, that was explained as a gap creator to facilitate seam filling/smoothing, and was not to be a CA glue absorbtion medium. The last time I put this table together. The slates were not bonded together at all. Each piece of slate was held in place by 4 screws into the frame.
So I have smashed the two pieces of advice I was given. Although the intent the of drywall tape (from what I was told) is to absorb the CA. It does also provide a nice consistent gap, which I find aids when filling/smoothing the seams.
So when I was instructed to use the drywall tape, the instructions included doing so by running it the full length. Now, that doesn't mean I had to run a bead of CA glue that full distance mind you. However I obviously did...lol. In hindsight, should I have...?.., no. I certainly would have gotten away with a few shorter beads of CA glue. Was I instructed to limit my use of glue...?.., nope. Was it implied..?.., maybe, I don't honestly recall.
If I was doing this again tomorrow would I limit the use of glue.... Ya, based on your insight most likely would. Really though all it means is more work when I go to dismantle. That's bad for someone on a clock. Just annoying for a home gamer like myself.
Now this is something I weighed on for a little while before placing the tape a smidge below the surface height of the slate. I obviously went a little below, and I did so because of that prior advice about the business cards and the benefit of that gap between the slates. My diy mind still thinks that gap is a bonus when trying to develop a coplanar seam, but not at the expense of damaging the slate. That said, "will" is an absolute word, and I don't believe it's appropriate here. Does it greatly increase the possibility..?.., for sure but that's not 'will'.
Along with the drywall tape / CA glue advice came instructions on how to break the bond to separate the slates when the time comes. CA glue does have specific chemical solvents. I was told to clear out the bondo when the time came, and apply solvent to the seam. Let it sit and do it's work. Now I've never done this so I have zero idea of how well it works, but I have no reason to believe otherwise. Again, if time was money and my employee did what I have done above, I'd probably be annoyed at the least. As it stands, I'm not concerned.
If someone was to ask me how to go about bonding/filling seams in the future. I would temper my suggestions with your comments Bradsh98.
The problem with diy threads on any subject matter is that the potential issues only come to light after the work has been completed. That said, as long as future readers gain the benefit of the hindsight then it's not in vain.
It was mentioned a while back that the title of this thread didn't convey the information within. Frankly, I didn't care. However, what I don't want to do is mislead potential readers into thinking that my diy efforts are the "right way" to do anything and/or are born of "professional" insight. So I'm open to lobbying the admin for a title change if that's possible.
Any suggestions by the readers...?
Thanks for any comments
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OK, so with the slates bonded together and the seams successfully smoothed out, I took the leap and installed the bed cloth. Now this is a first for me. The old cloth was original cloth (~15yrs) and I just threw it together when covid hit for sake of entertaining the kids. I really didn't care about the quality of the work. This time around I invested in cloth, and wanted top teir results, so I also invested in the Simonis DVDs. My opinion on the DVDs...? ...the bed cloth disk is well worth the tiny investment. The videography on the rail DVD could have been better to represent the work being performed. Regardless, I'm totally content with their purchase.
So as I said earlier. I'm not going to dig into the process of installing the cloth. What I will say is that I adhered to the DVD instructions to the letter, and numbers believe it or not.
After wiping down the slate and cloth for debris, I stressed over having the right side up...lol.
The down side is very easy to determine, but I looked for the markings as well.
Thanked myself a few times for buying an otherwise unneeded pair of wide mouth vise grips, and then followed my transcribed instructions.
TaDa...
Stretch index ended up being 1.75" after apply the appropriate math. Can't imagine doing this without those vise grips.
All in all, I'm ok with the effort. I did make one hell of a blunder that I doubt I'll post about. Just a mental slip and no real warning to provide other than to keep focused on the task at hand...lol. I did start doing the nice little pocket 'french cuff' to hide the staples. Unfortunately, the plastic pipe strap everyone likes to use seems foreign to my area. I tried to subsitute a strip of vinyl siding that was quite plyable. It however cracked when stapled, so I stopped trying. I've since found what I think may be a good equalivent, but I have next to no scrap cloth so I need to be sure before pulling that trigger again.
Lastly I started installing the rails and pocket trim.
Everything is loosely assembled at this point. I also haven't bother getting the table dead nuts level.
Next step is to fit the pocket liners. They require some trimming. Once they fit right then I can spot the holes for the threaded inserts they need for proper mounting.
The hope is to have the table playable by the weekend. Wish me luck...
So as I said earlier. I'm not going to dig into the process of installing the cloth. What I will say is that I adhered to the DVD instructions to the letter, and numbers believe it or not.
After wiping down the slate and cloth for debris, I stressed over having the right side up...lol.
The down side is very easy to determine, but I looked for the markings as well.
Thanked myself a few times for buying an otherwise unneeded pair of wide mouth vise grips, and then followed my transcribed instructions.
TaDa...
Stretch index ended up being 1.75" after apply the appropriate math. Can't imagine doing this without those vise grips.
All in all, I'm ok with the effort. I did make one hell of a blunder that I doubt I'll post about. Just a mental slip and no real warning to provide other than to keep focused on the task at hand...lol. I did start doing the nice little pocket 'french cuff' to hide the staples. Unfortunately, the plastic pipe strap everyone likes to use seems foreign to my area. I tried to subsitute a strip of vinyl siding that was quite plyable. It however cracked when stapled, so I stopped trying. I've since found what I think may be a good equalivent, but I have next to no scrap cloth so I need to be sure before pulling that trigger again.
Lastly I started installing the rails and pocket trim.
Everything is loosely assembled at this point. I also haven't bother getting the table dead nuts level.
Next step is to fit the pocket liners. They require some trimming. Once they fit right then I can spot the holes for the threaded inserts they need for proper mounting.
The hope is to have the table playable by the weekend. Wish me luck...
I felt the same about the DVD's.
Go ahead and share your mistake. We wont judge you....not for long anyway!
10 bucks on Amazon
Highcraft QQT-3425 Plastic Strapping, 3/4’’ x 25’ Perforated Roll, Grey Polypropylene, 25' https://a.co/d/4jJihSi
Our Simonis was also lacking in extra material. We use some of the old pieces of Championship we had left over. The color was close enough you cant see the difference when the top is installed.
Shouldn't this have been done before the cloth went on?
Sure... Here's the thing though. In my specific case. I'm not fully fastening the slate down to the frame. I have used 1/3 of the designated fasteners by the manufacturer, and those used are only tightened enough in an effort to prevent the slate from sliding off the frame. Well.., tighter than that but you get the point. I knew the process of stretching the cloth would most likely shift the slate around somewhat. I can say that when I was determining the stretch index the table was shifting.
I was so close to dead nuts already, and I knew some minor adjustment was going to be required after the cloth so why bother chasing my tail.
I could have easy wrote, "I made sure the table was dead nuts level before installing the cloth, and then I double checked after and made some fine adjustments." and everything would have been well received. I just skipped a step that I was going to double back on anyway.
Maybe if my table was a commerical monster that weighed twice as much. I might have leveled it as perfect as possible prior to cloth. However even with that said, I'd still check again afterward and make adjustments if the need be. I can't imagine someone going through this effort and not running a level round the table one last time after everything was said and done.
I think what's lost in the translation between my efforts and the posts is how close to level it already was. When I say "dead nuts level" I mean there's zero room for improvement.
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Found it on amazon .ca but slow assed shipping. Wasn't interested in waiting a couple of weeks. Also a smidge too wide for my application. Ideally I would want something no bigger than 5/8".
The product you linked to is listed as no longer available...lol
The above includes: Home Depot, Lowes, Rona, HomeHardware and a plumbing wholesale supply store up the road from where I work. I've burnt 5x the cost of this product in gas driving around looking for it.
Same product local HD webpage <--10x length only and not available 'in store'.
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Odd. I just added it to my cart. Says 8 left In stock. Free delivery by Wednesday. And I've never seen anything other then 3/4".
DeeDeeCues
Well-known member
It may easily be available in the states and not in Canada. Lots of reasons for this.
Oh.... now I get it.
It just dawned on me that being logged into my account is most likely causing the "not available" update. Being out of country and the seller not provide international shipping.
Last night I set to task the fitting of the pocket liners. Now my biggest pet peeve with this table throughout it's life was the pocket liners. Someone thought it a novel idea to mimic the diamond pattern you would see in a leather pocket. However, when you punch out diamond shaped holes in rigid plastic liners that you can't readily see anyway. All you succeed in doing is adding finger removal functionality.
The other annoyance which isn't nearly as bad, is this style of liner sits on top of the rails. ...and as everyone has at some point dealt with. It can make for some awkward cueing. Usually when it's the most critical...lol
The replacements are manufacturered for the 'Black Crown II'. This model of table has solid liners (no nail removing holes), and is designed to sit flush within the pocket castings. The pic below is of a gold crown, but it's literally the same thing and I can't find a good pic of the black crown version.
My goal was to produce the revamped pocket trim and neighbouring rails to accomidate these flush style liners. My satisfaction regarding the work on the surrounding wood is on the meh level honestly. With the power of hindsight, I could have done better. What I still needed to do was cut down the points of the liners. Obviously they are made to fit the metal castings for the BC2. In my app, I used them to mark out the recess they'd sit within. Being sure to go a tad smaller, with the intent to trim to fit.
The idea here is to cut the points of the liners following the path of the feather strip groove. I didn't do prior to finishing the rails as I simply didn't know what the end result would be like and if the fit would need any level of adjustment.
So there's till some attention the fit/finish requires. The idea was to just get the points trimmed back. I still need to drill out the rails for the mounting bolts and square up the table.
The other annoyance which isn't nearly as bad, is this style of liner sits on top of the rails. ...and as everyone has at some point dealt with. It can make for some awkward cueing. Usually when it's the most critical...lol
The replacements are manufacturered for the 'Black Crown II'. This model of table has solid liners (no nail removing holes), and is designed to sit flush within the pocket castings. The pic below is of a gold crown, but it's literally the same thing and I can't find a good pic of the black crown version.
My goal was to produce the revamped pocket trim and neighbouring rails to accomidate these flush style liners. My satisfaction regarding the work on the surrounding wood is on the meh level honestly. With the power of hindsight, I could have done better. What I still needed to do was cut down the points of the liners. Obviously they are made to fit the metal castings for the BC2. In my app, I used them to mark out the recess they'd sit within. Being sure to go a tad smaller, with the intent to trim to fit.
The idea here is to cut the points of the liners following the path of the feather strip groove. I didn't do prior to finishing the rails as I simply didn't know what the end result would be like and if the fit would need any level of adjustment.
So there's till some attention the fit/finish requires. The idea was to just get the points trimmed back. I still need to drill out the rails for the mounting bolts and square up the table.
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