SO, Whats your thoughts on the JB Case Video?
- Thread starter ykndoit
- Start date
Jack, a question.
If a prospective customer of one of your cases was willing to purchase a JB interior made to fit a Justis and give it to you prior to construction of their case would you be willing to install this interior during the initial construction of the case instead of your current interior?
Having overseen the complete construction of the case including the inspection and installation of the JB interior would you offer your lifetime warranty of all Justis aspects of the case (leatherwork, buckles, straps, lid, ect...) to this original purchaser of the case with the JB interior that you installed?
Would you be open to the posibility of people buying JB interiors and having you install them yourself for a substantial fee? Perhaps a $100 charge for the 1 hour or so of time to replace the old interior for the new one. Given that this work would be overseen by you yourself would you then still honor the warranty for the other parts of the case? (leatherwork, buckles, straps, lid, ect...)?
If a prospective customer of one of your cases was willing to purchase a JB interior made to fit a Justis and give it to you prior to construction of their case would you be willing to install this interior during the initial construction of the case instead of your current interior?
Having overseen the complete construction of the case including the inspection and installation of the JB interior would you offer your lifetime warranty of all Justis aspects of the case (leatherwork, buckles, straps, lid, ect...) to this original purchaser of the case with the JB interior that you installed?
Would you be open to the posibility of people buying JB interiors and having you install them yourself for a substantial fee? Perhaps a $100 charge for the 1 hour or so of time to replace the old interior for the new one. Given that this work would be overseen by you yourself would you then still honor the warranty for the other parts of the case? (leatherwork, buckles, straps, lid, ect...)?
All this protection talk cracks me up. What are you people doing ? Living like you are in an action movie, jumping from roof top to roof top with your cues ? Accidentally dropping them from four feet high every other day ?
In 20 years of playing pool I have never dropped cues from a height of four feet. It never even occurred to me to worry about it. If I was that paranoid about damage no one out there makes a cue case I would use. I would be rolling around with my cues in one of these:
I travel quite a bit and usually bring cues. I was using my Justis Pro-Lite 2x4 for awhile and never had any issues. I put it in the bottom of a large duffel along with some tripods and random gear. I recently stopped because the exterior was getting scratched up. The cues were just fine but the Justis is too nice to beat up so I switched to a soft Mezz Case and still have had no issues in probably 20 air legs in the last year. My biggest worry flying with the Justis is that it looks so nice someone would jack it just because it looked cool.
If people feel they need more protection then more power to them. To jump on Jack because he doesn't see it makes no sense to me. I am of the same state of mind he is. A prudent person should be able to take care of their gear without having to carry around a mobile bank vault. There have been enough cues carried enough miles in Justis cases that I don't even worry about it.
You can create any condition on purpose to show a weakness in a case. Whether it has any serious real world implications for the average prudent user is another topic.
Joe Rogan uses a line in his stand up that applies here I think: "You can't Nerf the world." Meaning you can't protect everyone from everything. Reasonable people have to make smart decisions. If you are that worried about your cue falling off an airplane or making an unexpected orbital re-entry then I guess you need to go find something capable of that. Till then I will be just fine with carrying cues like a normal human in a Justis.
I have owned four Justis cases, I forget how many Instrokes, a ton of It's George, four Thomas, two Centennial, a Fellini, and a bunch of cheap imports. I like cases. Never owned a JB of any type and never will. I don't care if they make your cue smell like flowers and regenerate dents when you slide it in. This last little exchange between Barton and Justis have convinced me that I would rather worry about some theoretically possible cue damage (If say I was attacked by a black leather loving gorilla who really likes to shake things) than support someone who goes this far to try and discredit a legend and great person in Jack Justis.
In 20 years of playing pool I have never dropped cues from a height of four feet. It never even occurred to me to worry about it. If I was that paranoid about damage no one out there makes a cue case I would use. I would be rolling around with my cues in one of these:
I travel quite a bit and usually bring cues. I was using my Justis Pro-Lite 2x4 for awhile and never had any issues. I put it in the bottom of a large duffel along with some tripods and random gear. I recently stopped because the exterior was getting scratched up. The cues were just fine but the Justis is too nice to beat up so I switched to a soft Mezz Case and still have had no issues in probably 20 air legs in the last year. My biggest worry flying with the Justis is that it looks so nice someone would jack it just because it looked cool.
If people feel they need more protection then more power to them. To jump on Jack because he doesn't see it makes no sense to me. I am of the same state of mind he is. A prudent person should be able to take care of their gear without having to carry around a mobile bank vault. There have been enough cues carried enough miles in Justis cases that I don't even worry about it.
You can create any condition on purpose to show a weakness in a case. Whether it has any serious real world implications for the average prudent user is another topic.
Joe Rogan uses a line in his stand up that applies here I think: "You can't Nerf the world." Meaning you can't protect everyone from everything. Reasonable people have to make smart decisions. If you are that worried about your cue falling off an airplane or making an unexpected orbital re-entry then I guess you need to go find something capable of that. Till then I will be just fine with carrying cues like a normal human in a Justis.
I have owned four Justis cases, I forget how many Instrokes, a ton of It's George, four Thomas, two Centennial, a Fellini, and a bunch of cheap imports. I like cases. Never owned a JB of any type and never will. I don't care if they make your cue smell like flowers and regenerate dents when you slide it in. This last little exchange between Barton and Justis have convinced me that I would rather worry about some theoretically possible cue damage (If say I was attacked by a black leather loving gorilla who really likes to shake things) than support someone who goes this far to try and discredit a legend and great person in Jack Justis.
This may possibly be the smartest post I have ever read. I feel like my IQ went up 30 points just for being in such close proximity to it.
Good post but I have to say this. No one is talking about jumping from roof top to roof top, but accidents do happen. For example, you lay your case up on the table with the lid open. Some punk kid with his pants dragging under his ass and his cap turned sideways strolls by not paying attention to what he's doing and knocks your case off the table and cues go spilling out. Or, you have your case leaning up against the table, top open because you're getting ready to take your cue out, same punk ass kid walks by and knocks it over by accident. Cues come spilling out.
You don't need to be re-entering the earth's atmosphere at light speed to have a minor accident that could damage your cue. There are plenty of ways for things like that to happen.
I read a post here that one guy put his case up on top of his car while fidgeting with his keys, got distracted by someone talking to him, forgot the case was up there and got in and pulled away. Of course the case came rolling off the top of the car. Accidents happen all the time, man.
For what it's worth, my cousin was killed under similar circumstances. She had just left church and was putting the kids in the car. She had taken her daughters shoes off and put them on top of the car and forgot about them. She pulled away, probably remembered the shoes were up there, pulled off to the side of the road, got out and got hit by another car.
Things happen all the time.
MULLY
Sorry to hear about your cousin. Very sad.
Maybe its just me but I try to be very aware of whats going on around me. So far in 20 years I have yet to have a cue damaged because ANY case didn't protect it. Matter of fact the only cue damage I have encountered was because I did something wrong. If you need a case to protect you from any and all foreseeable encounters because you are not willing to have the situational awareness required to protect your stuff then go for it. I fully understand the "Sh!t Happens" factor in life. If it is that big a deal to someone then they should seek out something that makes them feel comfortable.
You can come up with unlimited hypothetical situations. My point is that based on my experiences I have never had a problem with a Justis case protecting my cues. I have no doubt that out of all the cases Jack has made someone has.
If protection is really the end goal there is always that Pelican. But the case could tip over and knock your cues down...or you could drop it on your foot....or .....get my point?
Accident do happen but also normal use will cause the case to shake and rattle like hitting the breaks while the case is the trunk or even on the back seat of your car.
I had a strap broken while the case was over my shoulder, the case fell and hit the ground, at least 4 ft drop....
That's life and you know what, you can't be 100% protected at all times but when you pay big $$$ for a case that it's only purpose in life is to protect the cues inside you want to get a better protection than a $20 case.
Why not take the extra mile and with minor adjustments add extra protection?
This stubbornness eludes me.... but then again this comes from a case maker that created an envelope case with no dividers and swears that nothing can happen to the cues....
Jack makes fine leather exteriors but he is missing the point of his own product....
I'm not sure JB offer the best solution either, to be honest I haven't found the "perfect case" that will combine protectiveness, usability, looks and a decent price tag..... Still looking.... Still find too many flows to justify the price tag.
I had a strap broken while the case was over my shoulder, the case fell and hit the ground, at least 4 ft drop....
That's life and you know what, you can't be 100% protected at all times but when you pay big $$$ for a case that it's only purpose in life is to protect the cues inside you want to get a better protection than a $20 case.
Why not take the extra mile and with minor adjustments add extra protection?
This stubbornness eludes me.... but then again this comes from a case maker that created an envelope case with no dividers and swears that nothing can happen to the cues....
Jack makes fine leather exteriors but he is missing the point of his own product....
I'm not sure JB offer the best solution either, to be honest I haven't found the "perfect case" that will combine protectiveness, usability, looks and a decent price tag..... Still looking.... Still find too many flows to justify the price tag.
I did introduce the workshop and it's in an earlier video. As I said I will be redoing the video locally with better quality and in a calmer way to present the information and answer the questions that were asked in a less frantic way.
My apologies on the stream quality and the presentation. I was nervous and the pent up energy did result in what I feel was a poor presentation.
It was not however a slam Justis fest. I presented his interior and what it does and our interior and what it does. And in the followup video I will present it again in the same manner but with more side by side comparison.
People tuned in to see the comparison and that's what I did - then I took questions and some of the questions were wanting more information about the comparison between Justis interiors and ours.
So I answered those questions.
Most of them by the way came from an aspiring case maker who happens to be a big fan of both Justis and Barton cases. His questions were right on target as what one should ask when evaluating a case.
Anyway Joe, the followup videos will certainly be much clearer and will address most of your points above. Thank you for watching.
i have a guilty admit....i have a temper. i may on occasion throw my instroke into the bed of my truck from a few feet away. i know, i need help. that issue aside, my instroke has very few marks on it, my cues have none. the instroke holds up against my temper. but that's why i bought it. i knew it would. i also have a george case. not so much on the holding everything snug department. i have never been out of line with that one because i know my sh*t would be toast. i look at jack's cases the same way. they are beautiful and will protect your gear reasonably well. i don't think there should be really any knocking of jack's work. he builds a great case. the only issue is if you, like me, are an ill tempered moron who needs 17 levels of protection maybe jack's product is not for you. that's why we have coke and pepsi, McD's and the king - different strokes for different 38 year old men who have the temper of a pissed off 5 year old - man i gotta get that sh*t under control:grin: props to both guys who make great stuff.
You're right Justin, we can't nerf the world.
But there is a reason we have seatbelts, and airbags, and even the fighters in the UFC wear protective gear to minimize damage when they are deliberately trying to hurt each other.
There are things that are in our control.
Like I said before it's just a spectrum thing.
On one side are makers like Justis who take a very minimalist approach to it and put more of the burden on the user to pay attention and be careful and at the other end are makers like me who focus on providing more interior protection so that the user has less to deal with when using the case.
And this happens in all aspects of case making in general.
You can buy a backpack that is nothing more than an empty sack or you can buy backpacks that have all sorts of padded compartments.
Camera cases are a big one here.
You can buy camera cases with all levels of protection. You know this full well. What do you choose to protect your gear?
Now of course a pool cue is less sensitive than a camera. But still it's a fairly fragile thing that is not hard to break. And certainly those that have very very expensive ones would like to keep them in pristine condition. So it follows that they probably would be happier with they didn't need to worry about any possibility of damaging the cues, whether that damage was cosmetic or structural.
At least that's how I see it from the standpoint of the dumbass kid who left his open case on the corner of the table and as a result ended up with a broken $1400 Schon.
I wish someone had at least nerfed my case back then. If they had then I wouldn't be here now.
But there is a reason we have seatbelts, and airbags, and even the fighters in the UFC wear protective gear to minimize damage when they are deliberately trying to hurt each other.
There are things that are in our control.
Like I said before it's just a spectrum thing.
On one side are makers like Justis who take a very minimalist approach to it and put more of the burden on the user to pay attention and be careful and at the other end are makers like me who focus on providing more interior protection so that the user has less to deal with when using the case.
And this happens in all aspects of case making in general.
You can buy a backpack that is nothing more than an empty sack or you can buy backpacks that have all sorts of padded compartments.
Camera cases are a big one here.
You can buy camera cases with all levels of protection. You know this full well. What do you choose to protect your gear?
Now of course a pool cue is less sensitive than a camera. But still it's a fairly fragile thing that is not hard to break. And certainly those that have very very expensive ones would like to keep them in pristine condition. So it follows that they probably would be happier with they didn't need to worry about any possibility of damaging the cues, whether that damage was cosmetic or structural.
At least that's how I see it from the standpoint of the dumbass kid who left his open case on the corner of the table and as a result ended up with a broken $1400 Schon.
I wish someone had at least nerfed my case back then. If they had then I wouldn't be here now.
Who makes the safest car in the world? If you believe the marketing most would say Volvo. Could GM, Toyota, Ford & Porsche make safer cars. Sure they could. I'm an Engineer and everything in life, design and business is a trade off.
Weight vs Strength
Strength vs Cost
Cost vs image etc
JJ makes cases that are marketed to be up market devices that appeal to those who want fine workmanship and good looking cases. JB has decided that his niche in life is protection. That's why he beats us over the head with his gorilla marketing on the topic. I am a frequent business traveler and as such bring my cues along. Not my primary player and case for fear of lose not damage. For cosmetic reasons I wrap the case in bubble wrap and put an exterior travel case around the works.
My next case will be a Jim Murnack
http://www.fist-inc.com/general%20leather/cuemenumain.htm
A 3 x 6 that the Brunette is holding. If I could I would also order one of her. John would argue that she does not over enough protection and that she should put on 60 lbs. I like her just the way she is. I wonder what she would look like if I dropped her from 4 feet?
Volvo says buy me I'm safe and sturdy. Porsche says damb the bubble- wrap we are going warp-speed!
Weight vs Strength
Strength vs Cost
Cost vs image etc
JJ makes cases that are marketed to be up market devices that appeal to those who want fine workmanship and good looking cases. JB has decided that his niche in life is protection. That's why he beats us over the head with his gorilla marketing on the topic. I am a frequent business traveler and as such bring my cues along. Not my primary player and case for fear of lose not damage. For cosmetic reasons I wrap the case in bubble wrap and put an exterior travel case around the works.
My next case will be a Jim Murnack
http://www.fist-inc.com/general%20leather/cuemenumain.htm
A 3 x 6 that the Brunette is holding. If I could I would also order one of her. John would argue that she does not over enough protection and that she should put on 60 lbs. I like her just the way she is. I wonder what she would look like if I dropped her from 4 feet?
Volvo says buy me I'm safe and sturdy. Porsche says damb the bubble- wrap we are going warp-speed!
Well, for what it's worth, I wasn't taking sides on this matter, just pointing out that accidents do happen. I carry a Justis 3x6 with close to $10,000 worth of cues inside. I am extremely careful of where I put my case, and not because of the protection issues that have been brought up here, I've always been that way with my stuff. I've been carrying this Justis around with me going on 2 years now and it still looks brand new. The hardest surface my case has ever dropped on was the back seat of my car. That's just how I roll. hehe!! But I am aware that at any given moment I could trip and fall or some idiot could walk by and kick it over etc... It's not necessary to be doing acrobatics.
MULLY
I'll try and make this simple.
If someone should ask me to install an interior that I did not have faith in, I would simply suggest they buy the case direct from the maker so there is no problem here.
Now if one of my customers wants to change the interior on his own, it's none of my business. He bought the case and it is his to do with as he pleases.
The only thing I do have a say in is how I run my business and that includes voiding the lifetime warranty on the entire case, yes even the air inside the case if the ProLite interior is replaced by one that I personally do not have faith in. It has nothing to do with my dislike for John Barton. I just think his close tolerance interiors will eventually cause more harm than good.
Sorry everyone for hijacking the thread for a moment but the question was asked.
The example of one person logging in 10 time was that only an example of how ustream counts views.
I was having trouble (buffering) with the stream and logged in and out at least 3 or 4 times thinking that it make a better connection.
Ustream's numbers ARE deceptive if you don't know how they work.
Here is a perfect example. I just used a show page that I use for running tests and archived a short (40 seconds) video clip. If you go to the show page it says 149 views. I think we all know that the short clip did not receive 149 views. http://www.ustream.tv/channel/i-love-lamp-too
Those 149 views are the total of all the times that I was broadcasting on that page.
JB did broadcast several segments and probably ran tests also so the 295 views is a total of all the times he was broadcasting.
I am not saying that JB did this to pad his numbers, just pointing out the way ustream tracks its numbers.
Again sorry for the hijack.
Steve
Mi_Billiards
Ahh, fair and honest answer. If you truly feel that his interiors are in fact "less" protective then yours then your firm stance becomes far more understandable.
Nice video John!
You are absolutely right. My only contention is that people should know what the trade offs are. If the assumption is that the Porsche must be as safe as the Volvo because of Porsche's great reputation for quality then that's where the break down occurs.
In cars and most other things people do have a lot of information to go on. In cue cases not so much. So most information is based on hearsay, testimonial, and frankly maker hype. (on all sides).
I promise to tone down the harping about this. Frankly, it's cost me personally a lot of energy and time and I have made my point more times in more ways than I care to remember. As nauseating as it is to you to read the constant diatribes it wears me out to write them.
In fact, and I know that this is going to come as a big shock, I do actually appreciate Mr. Justis' approach to this. Since I had the epiphany that we are simply at opposite ends of the spectrum regarding how a cue should be protected it has allowed me to consider the middle ground. Even if I don't agree that his interior as it is right now is adequate I can see that with just a little improvement then it could be. That's not a dig, it's just how I feel.
What I mean is that I feel that the interior does not have to be as protective as mine are as long as the customer knows what they are getting and does know that they need to be conscious of it.
So anyway, that's all I have to say about it.
It's takes all kinds to make a world and no one has a perfect anything.